IT'S ALL THINGS CONSIDERED I'M NOAH ADAMS AND I'M ROBERT SIEGEL TODAY PRESIDENT CLINTON AND ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES SIGNED AN AGREEMENT TO STRENGTHEN COOPERATION BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES IN COMBATING TERRORISM THE MEASURE WAS DRAFTED AFTER SUICIDE BOMBERS KILLED NEARLY SIXTY ISRAELIS IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH OF THIS YEAR AND OFFICIALS SAY THAT IT WILL HELP BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL MR. PERES AND MR. CLINTON ALSO DISCUSSED WAYS TO ADVANCE THE ARAB ISRAELI PEACE PROCESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE PREPARED FOR A VISIT TOMORROW BY PALESTINIAN LEADER YASIR ARAFAT JOINING US TO DISCUSS THESE AND OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IS NPR'S TED CLARK AND TED FIRST WHAT DOES TODAY'S COUNTER TERRORISM AGREEMENT ACTUALLY DO WELL ROBERT THE AGREEMENT PROVIDES FOR MORE INFORMATION SHARING BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES MORE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT MORE TRAINING OF COUNTER TERRORISM EXPERTS MORE INVESTIGATION MORE PROSECUTION AND MORE EXTRADITION AND THE UNITED STATES HAS ALSO PROVIDED FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS FOR JOINT ANTI TERRORISM EFFORTS THIS YEAR AND THE PRESIDENT STRESSED THAT TODAY'S AGREEMENT WILL INDEED HELP BOTH ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES WE MUST DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO STOP THE KILLING AND BRING THE TERRORISTS TO JUSTICE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GIVE THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN PEACE THE CONFIDENCE THEY NEED THAT THEY HAVE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE AND THE COURAGE TO KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND AT TODAY'S NEWS CONFERENCE PRIME MINISTER PERES SAID THREE THINGS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FACT THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN ISRAEL SINCE EARLY MARCH FIRST HE SAID WAS THE RECENT COUNTER TERRORISM SUMMIT AT SHARM EL SHEIK EGYPT AND THE COOPERATION THAT THAT SUMMIT FOSTERED THE SECOND IS THE MORE SERIOUS MEASURES THAT YASIR ARAFAT HAS TAKEN IN GAZA AND IN THE TERRITORIES I FEEL THAT THEY REALLY STARTED TO FIGHT THE I SAY IT WITH APPRECIATION AND THE THIRD FACTOR MR. PERES SAID IS GREATER ORGANIZATION AMONG ISRAELI FORCES HE DIDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE RESTRAINT ON THE PART OF HAMAS OR ISLAMIC JIHAD AS A REASON FOR THIS NO HE DID NOT NOW ALSO TODAY TED THE U. S. RELEASED ITS ANNUAL REPORT ON TERRORISM WHICH INCLUDES A LIST OF COUNTRIES THAT ALLEGEDLY SPONSOR TERRORISM ANY SURPRISES THIS YEAR ON THE LIST NOPE THE LIST IS THE SAME AS LAST YEAR CUBA IRAN IRAQ LIBYA NORTH KOREA SUDAN AND SYRIA ARE ALL STILL ON THE LIST THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS THERE IS A LONG RANGE TREND TOWARD DECREASED TERRORISM ATTACKS AND DEATHS ARE DOWN SINCE THE MID NINETEEN EIGHTIES BUT TERRORISM CAN STILL HAVE STRATEGIC CONSEQUENCES THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS AND WE JUST SAW THAT IN THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS EARLIER THIS YEAR WHICH ALMOST DERAILED THE ARAB ISRAELI PEACE PROCESS NOW WHAT ABOUT THE MEETING BETWEEN PRESIDENT CLINTON AND PRIME MINISTER PERES IN TERMS OF THEIR AIM OF DISCUSSING WAYS OF GETTING THE PEACE TALKS MOVING AGAIN WELL THAT WAS A PRIME SUBJECT OF DISCUSSION THE UNITED STATES IS HOPING THAT THE CEASE FIRE BROKERED LAST WEEK IN SOUTHERN LEBANON WILL JUMP START ISRAELI LEBANESE AND ISRAELI SYRIAN PEACE TALKS WHICH WERE SUSPENDED AFTER THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN ISRAEL AND THE ISRAELI PALESTINIAN TALKS SEEM TO BE BACK ON TRACK NOW THAT THE PALESTINE NATIONAL COUNCIL IS AMENDING ITS CHARTER TO REMOVE CLAUSES THAT CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL THAT WILL CLEAR THE WAY FOR THE SO CALLED FINAL STATUS NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS NEGOTIATIONS THAT WILL DEAL WITH THE MOST DIFFICULT ISSUES WILL THERE BE A PALESTINIAN STATE WHAT WILL THE BORDERS BE CAN PALESTINIAN REFUGEES RETURN WHAT WILL BECOME OF JEWISH SETTLEMENTS IN THE WEST BANK WHO WILL CONTROL JERUSALEM ALL VERY EMOTIONAL ISSUES WHEN YASIR ARAFAT MEETS PRESIDENT CLINTON TOMORROW HE MAY TRY TO DRAW THE U. S. CLOSER TO THE PALESTINIAN POSITION ON THESE ISSUES BUT NO ONE EXPECTS ANY REAL PROGRESS BEFORE THE ISRAELI ELECTIONS TAKE PLACE AT THE END OF THE MONTH NOW SPEAKING OF THOSE ELECTIONS PRESIDENT CLINTON HAD TO ANSWER SOME ACCUSATIONS THAT HE IS FAVORING PRIME MINISTER PERES TRYING TO IMPROVE SHIMON PERES' REELECTION PROSPECTS BY MEETING WITH HIM HERE IN WASHINGTON NOT TO MENTION SHOWING NOTHING BUT UNDERSTANDING ABOUT HIS POLICIES IN SOUTHERN LEBANON RIGHT AND THE OPPOSITION LIKUD IS SUGGESTING NOT SO SUBTLY THAT MR. CLINTON IS TRYING TO HELP MR. PERES AND THE LABOR PARTY BECAUSE THE U. S. PREFERS THEIR APPROACH TO PEACE NEGOTIATIONS OVER LIKUD'S BUT THE PRESIDENT DENIED ANY MEDDLING THE UNITED STATES HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT WE DO NOT INTERFERE IN THE INTERNAL DECISIONS OF OTHER COUNTRIES AND THAT ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES ARE FRIENDS AND ALLIES AND WILL BE NO MATTER WHO IS ELECTED THE PRESIDENT SAID MR. PERES' VISIT TO THE UNITED STATES AT THIS TIME IS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE GIVEN THE RECENT FIGHTING IN LEBANON GIVEN THE CHANGES IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE P. L. O. AND GIVEN THE VISIT OF YASIR ARAFAT TO WASHINGTON TED THANK YOU VERY MUCH NPR'S TED CLARK TODAY U. S. MARINES KILLED THREE LIBERIANS AND WOUNDED A FOURTH NEAR THE AMERICAN EMBASSY COMPOUND IN MONROVIA THE MEN WERE SHOT AFTER FIGHTING BROKE OUT IN THE CAPITAL AN AMERICAN SOLDIER WAS SLIGHTLY WOUNDED IN THE FIGHTING BUT HIS INJURIES WERE NOT THOUGHT TO BE SERIOUS TODAY'S EVENTS BROKE A CEASE FIRE THAT HAD KEPT THE COUNTRY'S ARMED FACTIONS APART FOR ALMOST TWO WEEKS NPR'S JENNIFER LUDDEN JOINS US FROM MONROVIA JENNIFER TELL US WHAT LED TO THE FIGHTING BETWEEN THE FACTIONS THERE THE LIBERIAN FACTIONS WHY DID THE CEASE FIRE BREAK DOWN THE CEASE FIRE BROKE DOWN YESTERDAY AFTERNOON FOR THE FIRST TIME BASICALLY AFTER CHARLES TAYLOR WHO IS THE LEADER OF THE LARGEST FACTION HERE DECIDED TO GO BACK TO WORK AS THE CITY HAS BEEN SORT OF SHUT DOWN FOR THREE WEEKS AFTER FIGHTING BROKE OUT TAYLOR SAID HE WAS GOING BACK TO WORK IT WAS TO BE A CONFIDENCE BOOSTING MEASURE THAT THINGS WERE GETTING BACK TO NORMAL HE SHOWED UP AT WORK WITH A CONTINGENT OF ARMED SECURITY GUARDS AND THIS EITHER WORRIED OR ANGERED SUPPORTERS OF A RIVAL FACTION WHO WERE NEARBY THEY ADVANCED TAYLOR'S FORCES OPENED FIRE AND TAYLOR ENDED UP FLEEING HIS OFFICE TODAY THAT FIGHTING BASICALLY CONTINUED AND INTENSIFIED WEST AFRICAN PEACEKEEPERS WHO WERE IN THE REGION RETREATED AND THIS ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF MORE SOLDIERS TO ENTER THE CITY AND ESCALATE THE VIOLENCE THE U. S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN NICHOLAS BURNS IS DESCRIBING THE SHOOTING THERE TODAY AS A VERY GRAVE INCIDENT OUTSIDE THE AMERICAN EMBASSY COMPOUND WHAT PROMPTED THE GUNFIRE WITH THE GUN FIGHT WITH THE U. S. MARINES THE SHOOTING HAD BEEN AT FIRST DIRECTED TOWARD A MILITARY BARRACKS DOWNTOWN ABOUT A MILE FROM THE EMBASSY NOW THAT'S WHERE A SMALLER MILITIA LEADER IS BELIEVED TO BE HIDING CHARLES TAYLOR'S FORCES HAVE BEEN BESIEGING THAT BARRACKS FOR ABOUT A MONTH AND TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME THE GUNMEN INSIDE THE BARRACKS SEEMED TO GAIN THE UPPER HAND THEY PUSHED TAYLOR'S FIGHTERS BACK BACK DOWN A ROAD THAT LEADS UP TO THE U. S. EMBASSY COMPOUND SO THEY WERE THEN SHOOTING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE COMPOUND AND THAT'S WHEN THE U. S. MARINES RETURNED FIRE WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP FOR THE UNITED STATES MILITARY PRESENCE THERE IN MONROVIA STRATEGICALLY TO TRY TO HOLD THINGS DOWN THE U. S. MILITARY OFFICIALS HAVE INSISTED EVER SINCE THEY ARRIVED THAT THEIR ONLY MISSION IS TO PROTECT THE U. S. EMBASSY AND TO HELP EVACUATE AMERICANS AND FOREIGN NATIONALS THEY HAVE INSISTED REPEATEDLY THEY WILL NOT INTERVENE IN CLASHES TODAY'S ACTIONS THEY SAY WERE PROMPTED BY AN ATTACK ON THE EMBASSY SO IT'S NOT REALLY EXPECTED THAT MORE ACTIONS WILL FOLLOW THE U. S. EMBASSY HAS URGED ITS FEW REMAINING EMPLOYEES NOT TO GO OUT AND WALK IN THE STREETS AND INSISTED IF THEY DO LEAVE THE COMPOUND THAT THEY MUST GO WITH AN ARMED GUARD AND INDEED ARE MOST OF THE U. S. CITIZENS OUT OF LIBERIA MOST OF THEM ARE THE LAST WORD I HEARD WAS THAT THERE ARE THIRTY AMERICANS HERE ALTHOUGH A TRICKLE OF PEOPLE WANTING TO BE EVACUATED CONTINUES TO FLOW INTO THE U. S. EMBASSY SOME OF THOSE MIGHT BE AMERICANS ANY DIPLOMATIC INITIATIVES UNDER WAY THERE ARE IN FACT ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE GEORGE MOOSE WAS IN THE EMBASSY TODAY HE HAD COME TO LIBERIA HOPING TO MEET WITH CHARLES TAYLOR AND OTHER FACTION LEADERS TO URGE THEM NOT TO FIGHT AND TO ATTEND A DIPLOMATIC MEETING IN ACCRA GHANA NEXT WEEK THAT'S WHEN WEST AFRICAN LEADERS WILL GET TOGETHER AND TRY TO SALVAGE A PEACE ACCORD THAT LIBERIA'S FACTION LEADERS SIGNED LAST AUGUST THANKS VERY MUCH NPR'S JENNIFER LUDDEN TALKING WITH US FROM MONROVIA LIBERIA IT'S ALL THINGS CONSIDERED I'M NOAH ADAMS AND I'M ROBERT SIEGEL FLOODS IN THE MIDWEST HAVE FORCED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO EVACUATE THEIR HOMES IN INDIANA MISSOURI AND ILLINOIS SINCE IT STARTED RAINING HEAVILY ON SUNDAY THE FLOODING HAS CLAIMED AT LEAST FOUR LIVES IN TRAFFIC AND BOATING ACCIDENTS IN THE SAINT LOUIS AREA THERE WERE EIGHTY MILE PER HOUR WINDS TODAY WITH HEAVY RAIN HAIL AND LIGHTENING THAT STRUCK AND KILLED TWO CLYDESDALES AT A PETTING ZOO ACROSS THE RIVER IN EAST SAINT LOUIS ILLINOIS SEVERAL HUNDRED HOMES WERE EVACUATED MANY RESIDENTS WENT TO STAY WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS BUT OTHERS ARE IN SHELTERS MAYOR GORDON BUSH OF EAST SAINT LOUIS SAYS THE DAMAGE TO HOMES IN HIS CITY COULD HAVE BEEN AVERTED THERE WERE HOPES BY MANY THAT THIS SITUATION WOULD HAVE BEEN REMEDIED SINCE THE LAST FLOODING BUT IT HAS NOT EACH TIME WE HAD THE GREAT FLOOD OF NINETEEN NINETY THREE AND THEN NINETEEN NINETY FIVE THERE WAS THIS SAME TYPE OF DEVASTATION NOW IT'S BACK IN NINETEEN NINETY SIX AND THE SITUATION CAN BE REPAIRED AND REMEDIATED PROBABLY A ROUGH ESTIMATE OF ABOUT FOUR MILLION DOLLARS EACH YEAR WE SPEND THAT AMOUNT IN WITH ALL THE UNFORTUNATE EXPERIENCES OF THE FLOOD AND PEOPLE BEING CARRIED THROUGH THIS SITUATION WE'RE SPENDING THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY ANYWAY SO WE'RE GOING TO APPEAL TO THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND TO F. E. M. A. TO DESIGNATE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MILLION DOLLARS TO COMPLETELY REMEDY THIS PROBLEM AND MAKE IT GO AWAY WHEN YOU SPEAK OF TRYING TO MAKE THIS PROBLEM GO AWAY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A FLOOD WALL ALONG THE RIVER BANK WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY A MAIN CENTRAL DRAINAGE SYSTEM IT'S THE HARDING DITCH IT CARRIES THE WATER FROM THE HIGH BLUFF ON THROUGH OUR CITY AND DOWN INTO THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER THERE'S BEEN AN ABSOLUTE LACK OF MAINTENANCE OF THAT DITCH THERE'S AN UNDERGROWTH OF BRUSHES AND TREES AND WEEDS AND IT IMPEDES THE FLOW OF THE WATER AND AS A RESULT IT CERTAINLY OVERFLOWS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH ARE ADJACENT THAT HARDING DITCH NEEDS TO BE DREDGED AND CLEANED OUT ALSO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF MAJOR FLOOD WATER RETENTION PONDS THAT NEED TO BE EXCAVATED IN EACH OF THE PRIMARY FLOODING AREAS WHAT DOES THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TELL YOU WHEN YOU BRING THIS TO THEIR ATTENTION THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE CLEANED THIS OUT BEFORE THIS FLOOD YEAR THEY'RE SAYING THAT THEY NEED TO GET AUTHORIZATION AND EASEMENT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR THERE TO DEPOSIT THE DREDGINGS FROM THE DRAINAGE DITCH TO DEPOSIT ONTO THEIR PROPERTIES AND THEY CAN'T SEEM TO GET THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT I KNOW THAT IF WE CAN APPROACH THE CITIZENS AND SAY THAT THEIR EASEMENT TO THEIR PROPERTY IS NEEDED WHY WOULDN'T THEY AGREE TO ALLOW THE DREDGING TO COME OUT AND BE PLACED ON THE BACK OF THEIR PROPERTY IF THAT CAN AVOID THE FLOODING INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT THEY WOULD NOT PERMIT THAT SO I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS I'M NOT I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS I FEEL HAS NOT DONE THEIR JOB AND WE'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING THE FULL PRESS ON THEM YOU SAY THAT YOU ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AS MAYOR AND YET YOU'RE MAYOR OF A VERY POOR CITY AND I WONDER WHETHER IT'S POSSIBLE FOR A CITY LIKE EAST SAINT LOUIS TO ACTUALLY TAKE CARE OF PROBLEMS LIKE THIS WE CANNOT DO IT UNILATERALLY AND WE CERTAINLY WOULD NEED IN FACT WE WILL BE APPLYING FOR A SPECIAL GRANT UNDER THE EMERGENCY SITUATIONS HERE FROM F. E. M. A. WE KNOW THAT WE CANNOT REMEDY THIS OURSELVES WE'RE GOING TO NEED FEDERAL DOLLARS WE'RE GOING TO NEED STATE DOLLARS WHATEVER TO ASSIST US IN DOING WHAT WE NEED TO DO BUT WE DO WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS EMERGENCY SITUATION TO GET THE DOLLARS WHICH AGAIN AS I STATED ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MILLION TO REMEDY THIS PROBLEM GORDON BUSH IS THE MAYOR OF EAST SAINT LOUIS ILLINOIS MANY INFLUENTIAL OBSERVERS AGREE THAT THE DOLE CAMPAIGN HAS NOT YET FOUND ITS VOICE NOW THE PROSPECT OF A FIGHT OVER ABORTION AND OTHER ISSUES THREATENS TO FURTHER HOBBLE THE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT IS IN WHAT NEWT GINGRICH DESCRIBES AS A FUNK FEARFUL THAT THEY MAY LOSE THE GAINS MADE IN CONGRESS IN THE LAST ELECTION WE CONTINUE OUR COVERAGE OF THE DOLE CAMPAIGN TONIGHT WITH STEVE FORBES AS A CANDIDATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION HE WON PRIMARIES IN ARIZONA AND DELAWARE AND FORCED THE REST OF THE FIELD TO PRESENT THEIR OWN VERSIONS OF THE FLAT TAX HE WON A KEY REPUBLICAN ENDORSEMENT IN JACK KEMP AND I AM PLEASED TO HAVE HIM ON THIS BROADCAST THE LAST TIME HE WAS HERE WAS BEFORE HE ANNOUNCED SO WE HAVE A LOT OF GROUND TO COVER WELCOME BACK NICE TO BE BACK BOB DOLE BEAT YOU AND HE BEAT PAT BUCHANAN AND HE BEAT LAMAR ALEXANDER AND HE BEAT PHIL GRAMM AND HE BEAT OTHERS WHAT'S WRONG WITH HIS CAMPAIGN NOW WHY IS THE QUALITIES THAT HE WON THE PRIMARIES SO SUCCESSFULLY NOT REFLECTED IN WHERE HE STANDS AS A CANDIDATE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION WELL ONE THING YOU DISCOVER WITH POLITICS IS THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING IN ONE CONTEST DOES IT'S LIKE BAKING BREAD EACH DAY YOU HAVE TO BAKE THE NEW BREAD EACH DAY LAST WEEK'S ISN'T GOING TO DO IT AND IN THE EARLY CONTEST HE GOT IN VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE THE FIRST HALF DOZEN CONTESTS HE LOST OR WAS HUMILIATED IN EVERY ONE IT WAS ONLY IN THE LATER PRIMARIES THAT HE GOT IT TOGETHER THAT HE STARTED TO GET SOME THEMES OUT THERE SINCE THE END OF THE CAMPAIGN I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING NOW FOR A TRUE PRO GROWTH PRO HOPE AGENDA AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE WAITING FOR HE HASN'T COME FORTH WITH IT YET AND THIS TIES INTO WHAT YOU TOUCHED ON EARLIER ABOUT THE FUNK THAT THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO HAD BEEN A FONT OF IDEAS ONE OF THE MISTAKES THEY MADE DURING THE FALL IN THE BUDGET BATTLE WITH BILL CLINTON WAS THEY DIDN'T REMIND THE VOTERS THAT ALL OF THESE PROPOSALS ARE MEANS TO AN END TO IMPROVE PEOPLE'S CHANCES TO GET AHEAD IN AMERICA INSTEAD THEY CAME ACROSS AS ACCOUNTANTS MORE INTERESTED IN NUMBERS THAN PEOPLE THEY CONCENTRATED WE MUST GET THE BUDGET IN ORDER BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO REAL GROWTH A BALANCED BUDGET WILL COME IF YOU MAKE SOME OF THESE OTHER REFORMS YOU'LL GET THE POLITICAL CAPITAL TO MAKE THOSE DIFFICULT LONG TERM CHANGES BUT PEOPLE MUST SEE THAT YOU'RE MAKING PROPOSALS THAT'LL IMPROVE THEIR LIVES IMMEDIATELY THEY KNOW WE CAN DO BETTER THE ENERGY WHEN YOU GO AROUND THIS COUNTRY IS THERE PEOPLE CAN'T FEEL THEY CAN'T GET A HANDLE ON WHAT'S WRONG WHY WE'RE NOT DOING BETTER WE SORT OF HAVE WALKING PNEUMONIA AND SO I THINK THEIR INSTINCTS ARE RIGHT WE CAN MAKE SOME IMMEDIATE CHANGES TO IMPROVE THINGS IN THIS COUNTRY DO YOU THINK BOB DOLE UNDERSTANDS THAT IN HIS GUT AS WELL AS IN HIS BRAIN I THINK HE'S ENOUGH OF A POLITICAL ANIMAL SO TO SPEAK THAT WHEN HE'S OUT THERE HE PICKS IT UP AND HE'S ACCUSTOMED TO PICKING UP VIBRATIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO EITHER ARE PETITIONING HIM IN THE SENATE OR OUT IN AN AUDIENCE SO IN THAT SENSE I THINK HE WILL PICK IT UP AND I THINK WE HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES BEFORE WE WRITE HIS OBITUARY THAT THIS IS THIS APRIL MAY IT'S NOT AUGUST BEFORE THE CONVENTION IT'S NOT OCTOBER ON THE EVE OF THE ELECTION THERE IS TIME TO PUT IT TOGETHER I THINK THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP I VISITED THEM A FEW DAYS AGO THEY'RE GETTING OUT OF THEIR FUNK THEY'RE COMING UP WITH SOME IMAGINATIVE IDEAS ON TAX CHANGES AND I THINK THE SAME THING IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE DOLE CAMPAIGN SO YOU ARE SAYING TO SPEAKER GINGRICH WHILE HE SAYS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S IN A FUNK YOU'RE SAYING THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP SEEMS TO BE IN A FUNK THEMSELVES THEY WERE AND THEY'RE THEY'RE PULLING OUT OF IT THE THE LEADERSHIP HAS PULLED OUT OF IT I THINK THE NEXT TWO WEEKS WHAT'S THE EVIDENCE OF THAT THE IDEAS THAT THEY'RE BANDYING ABOUT INSIDE ON CONSTRUCTIVE ALTERNATIVES IN MINIMUM WAGE SUCH AS LIBERALIZING EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT TO GIVE PEOPLE WITH LOW INCOMES WITH DEPENDENTS ENABLE THEM TO HAVE MORE KEEP MORE OF WHAT THEY EARN BE ABLE TO GET A LARGER CREDIT CHANGES IN THE PAYROLL TAX OTHER SUCH CHANGES THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAYS TO ENABLING PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO HAVE A BETTER CHANCE TO GET AHEAD AND BOB DOLE DOING THE RIGHT THING ON THE MINIMUM WAGE I THINK THEY WILL IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS UP TO NOW THEY WERE VERY DEFENSIVE AND THEY ALLOWED THE DEMOCRATS TO PORTRAY THE ISSUE AS ONE OF HELPING PEOPLE STRUGGLING TO GET AHEAD AND GLOSSING OVER THE FACT THAT EVERY TIME YOU RAISE IT YOU DESTROY JOBS THERE IS WAYS ARE WAYS THROUGH THINGS LIKE THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT TO ENABLE PEOPLE WITH LOW INCOMES TO HAVE MORE TO GET OUT OF THE WELFARE TRAP OR AVOID GOING INTO THE WELFARE TRAP ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WITH DEPENDENTS A LOT OF PEOPLE AT MINIMUM WAGE ARE PART TIME WORKERS A LOT OF TEENAGERS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO ARE HELP THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEPENDENTS WHO REALLY DO HAVE TO SUPPORT A FAMILY THEY'RE THE ONES WHO REALLY NEED THE HELP AND THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT WITHOUT DESTROYING JOBS AND SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF EXCITING IDEAS BEGINNING TO BREW UP AGAIN WHETHER MEDICAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS MEDICARE FOR EXAMPLE THEY GOT IN THE SWAMP OF TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT OH THE BUDGET BATTLE YEAH AND TRYING TO DETERMINE CO PAYS AND THINGS IN THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND TWO THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO DO IT MANY PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT BILL CLINTON IS AHEAD IN THE POLLS TODAY FOR TWO REASONS M. SQUARE AND E. SQUARE M. SQUARE IS MEDICARE AND MEDICAID AND E. SQUARE IS EDUCATION AND THE ENVIRONMENT THAT HE HAS CO OPTED THOSE ISSUES AND THAT HAS GIVEN HIM A FIFTEEN PERCENT INCREASE I MEAN A FIFTEEN PERCENT MARGIN IN THE POLLS DO YOU BUY THAT WELL PEOPLE DO WANT CHANGE BUT THEY DON'T WANT IT DONE IN A WAY WHERE YOU'RE SORT OF A ZERO SUM GAME WHERE YOU'RE DESTROYING PEOPLE THROWING WIDOWS AND ORPHANS IN THE SNOW THEY KNOW WE CAN MAKE CHANGES WITHOUT THROWING PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAGON SO TO SPEAK OR DISRUPTING A LOT OF LIVES YOU'RE BEGINNING TO SOUND LIKE PHIL GRAMM THERE NUMBER IN FACT I HAD FUN THAT HE HE WOULD SAY IN THE CAMPAIGN THIS I THINK GETS TO THE GRIMNESS SOMETIMES OF THE REPUBLICANS THAT THEY HE SAID I WANT MORE PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAGON PULLING THE WAGON I RESPONDED TO THAT THAT THE GENIUS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE THAT WE INVENTED ENGINES AND TRACTORS TO PULL WAGONS WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO PULL WAGONS BUT BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO HELP PEOPLE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET AHEAD INSTEAD OF COMING ACROSS AS PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO TAKE SOMETHING AWAY IN SHORT HOW MANY IF WE GIVE RESOURCES ALLOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO GIVE MORE OF THE RESOURCES THEY MAKE THEY WILL CREATE MORE RESOURCES WHETHER IT'S JOHN KENNEDY'S WAY RONALD REAGAN'S WAY WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME EXCITING IDEAS TO DO IT AGAIN IN TERMS OF TAX CUTS THAT THEY MADE TAX CUTS SOCIAL SECURITY MEDICARE PARENTAL CONTROL OF EDUCATION THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD EXPERIMENTAL SCHOOLS IN CITIES LIKE MILWAUKEE WHERE YOU HAVE REAL CHOICE PARENTS ARE IN CHARGE THEY GOT AWAY FROM THE BUREAUCRACY KIDS ARE STARTING TO GET A READ EDUCATION HOW MANY MEETINGS HAVE YOU HAD WITH SENATOR DOLE SINCE HE WON THE PRIMARIES WHEN I ENDED MY CAMPAIGN YES I HAD A VERY CORDIAL CONVERSATION WITH HIM HOW LONG OH IT WAS A FEW MINUTES A FEW MINUTES BUT BUT I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING HIS CAMPAIGN YEAH COME ON I MEAN COME ON IT'S I MEAN YOU HERE YOU ARE HERE HERE I BASHED HIM FOR FOR SIX MONTHS YEAH AND I THINK THE WAY I COULD HAVE A MEETING WITH HIM IT WOULD BE I'M SURE VERY FORMAL HE WOULD BE VERY POLITE I'D BE ON MY BEST BEHAVIOR BUT IF YOU WANT TO GET IDEAS THROUGH YOU JUST DON'T DO IT ONE ON ONE YOU TALK TO THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM YOU TALK TO THE PEOPLE ON THE HILL YOU TALK DIRECTLY TO THE VOTERS AND THAT'S STARTING TO AND IT'S WELL I HEAR STARTING TO STARTING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE WELL BUT THIS HELP ME UNDERSTAND HERE I MEAN THIS OKAY IS NOT TRYING TO THIS IS NOT GOTCHA JOURNALISM THERE IS SOME SOME DISTANCE BETWEEN YOU BECAUSE OF THE HARSHNESS OF YOUR ATTACKS ON HIM DURING WELL DURING THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN THE THE ATTACKS THE ATTACKS WERE NOT AND HE'S GOT TO GET OVER THAT IN ORDER TO WERE NOT PERSONAL THEY POINTED OUT THE FACT THAT HE HAD A RECORD OF RAISING TAXES AND AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND RAISING SPENDING HE FEELS HIS PERCEPTION IS WHAT'S AT ISSUE HE FEELS LIKE THAT YOU DID SERIOUS DAMAGE TO HIM IN THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN AND THAT PART OF THE REASON THAT HE'S DOING SO BADLY IN THE POLLS TODAY IS THE ATTACKS THAT YOU INFLICTED ON HIM IN THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN ESPECIALLY IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE WELL IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE IF YOU LOOK AT NATIONAL POLLS WHICH WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE ARE ABOUT TWO PERCENT OF THE NATION'S POPULATION THE EARLY PRIMARIES ARE ABOUT TEN PERCENT OF THE NATION'S POPULATION BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE AS YOU KNOW THE ISSUE IS THE PERCEPTION IN TERMS OF THE MEDIA ALL THE TELEVISION PROGRAMS WHERE THEY WERE RUNNING YOUR ADS WHAT WHAT WHAT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HE BUT WHAT WHAT WAS HAVING TO RESPOND TO THEM BUT WHAT WHAT DID I SAY IN THOSE ADS THAT HE COULDN'T EASILY COUNTERACT I POINTED OUT THAT IN THE PAST HE HAD BEEN A MAJOR BOOSTER OF TAXES HE HAD BEEN A MAJOR BOOSTER OF SPENDING INCREASES HE COULD HAVE EASILY TURNED THAT AROUND COULD EASILY TURN IT AROUND TODAY HOW COULD HE HAVE TURNED IT AROUND HE COULD HAVE SAID I'VE BEEN IN WASHINGTON I'VE SEEN WHAT WORKS AND I'VE SEEN WHAT DOESN'T WORK I'VE SEEN MADE MY MISTAKES I'VE MADE DONE GOOD THINGS AND I'VE MADE MISTAKES I KNOW WHAT CAN GET AMERICA MOVING AGAIN AND UNLIKE STEVE FORBES I KNOW HOW TO GET IT DONE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF IT IF HE HAD ADOPTED THAT PRO GROWTH AGENDA IN SEPTEMBER MY CAMPAIGN WOULD HAVE ENDED I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN ANNOUNCED WELL DO YOU THINK IT'S THAT SIMPLE THAT HE COULD BASICALLY HAVE SAID WHAT YOU JUST SAID AND IF HE'D GIVEN THAT SPEECH ENOUGH TIMES HE'S STARTING HE'S THAT YOU WOULD STARTING NOT HAVE BEEN A FACTOR SURE BECAUSE THERE THERE WAS A VACUUM THERE OF LACKING GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITY THAT'S WHY I GOT IN THE RACE IT WAS ALL AUSTERITY ALL LIKE ACCOUNTANTS WHO SAW JUST NUMBERS AND NOT PEOPLE AND OR HOW DID SOMEBODY WITH MY BACKGROUND LACK OF POLITICAL EXPERIENCE COME NEARLY TO IN JANUARY COME CLOSE TO DERAILING BOB DOLE WINNING PRIMARIES NEARLY BECAME THE NOMINEE ANSWER YOUR OWN HOW QUESTION HOW DID IT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE POWER MY MESSAGE OF GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITY BUT THERE'S NO PATENTS IN POLITICS NO COPYRIGHTS OTHERS COULD HAVE DONE IT BUT THERE WAS A VACUUM AND YOU I SAW THE VACUUM AND YOU EXPECT THAT IN FACT NOT BOB DOLE BUT BILL CLINTON IS WILL BE THE PERSON WHO ADOPTS THAT IDEA NOT THE FLAT TAX BUT PRO GROWTH AND TALKING IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC GROWTH THE WAY YOU TALKED IN THE CAMPAIGN DON'T YOU THAT IS A REAL POSSIBILITY AND THAT'S WHY AND A LIKELIHOOD IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT'S WHY IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT THE REPUBLICANS GET OUT THE PRO GROWTH AGENDA THEY'VE BEEN DISCUSSING PROPOSING THESE IDEAS DICK ARMEY THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY LEADER'S BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS MY FLAT TAX IS SIMPLY A VARIATION OF HIS AND I THINK IF THE REPUBLICANS DO THAT SENATOR DOLE DOES THAT THEY WILL HAVE MORE CREDIBILITY AT THE END OF THE DAY THAN BILL CLINTON PEOPLE MAY LIKE HIM PERSONALLY BUT I THINK PEOPLE REALIZE THERE IS NOT A CORE THERE THAT HE CAN SAY ONE THING ONE WEEK MEAN IT VERY SINCERELY AND THEN THE NEXT WEEK SAY THE OPPOSITE THING AND MEAN IT VERY SINCERELY AND NOT EVEN REMEMBER THAT HE SAID THE OPPOSITE THING THE WEEK BEFORE ALL RIGHT LET ME JUST REVISIT THIS IDEA THAT GINGRICH AND BILL KRISTOL AND BILL BENNETT AND OTHERS HAVE DISCUSSED THAT SOMEHOW THE DOLE CAMPAIGN CAN'T GET STARTED CAN'T INCORPORATE THESE IDEAS DOESN'T HAVE A MESSAGE WHAT DO YOU THINK IS AT THE HEART OF THE PROBLEMS THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SPEAKING TO ABOUT THAT CAMPAIGN WELL I THINK FIRST OF ALL AS I SAID APRIL MAY IT'S A LITTLE EARLY TO BE WRITING DEFINITIVE OBITUARIES WELL I READ A STORY TODAY IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND THERE WAS A STORY IN THE NEW YORK TIMES I THINK BUT BASICALLY IT WAS ABOUT BUT WHAT THIS QUICK MECHANISM STRATEGY OF THE CLINTON PEOPLE AND HOW THEY THINK THAT IF THEY JUST HANG IN THERE AND PUSH THEY'RE CREATE SUCH A MARGIN THAT BY THE END OF THE LA SECOND CONVENTION IT'LL BE TOO LATE TO CHANGE IT IT'S NEVER TOO LATE IN NINETEEN NINETY SIX I MEAN EVERY ELECTION IS VOLATILE GEORGE BUSH WAS SEVENTEEN POINTS BEHIND DUKAKIS IN EIGHTY EIGHT HE WAS TWELVE POINTS AHEAD OF CLINTON IN JUNE OF NINETEEN NINETY TWO THESE THINGS CHANGE ESPECIALLY IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE RECOGNIZE AMERICA IS AT A CROSSROADS THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE IS CHANGING THERE IS NO CONSENSUS AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR LEADERSHIP THEY'RE LOOKING FOR PROPOSALS TO GET THIS COUNTRY MOVING THE WAY WE KNOW IT SHOULD WE'RE NOT OUR GROWTH IS PATHETIC IT'S THE SLOWEST EXPANSION WE'VE HAD THE FUNDAMENTALS ARE THERE FOR US TO DO SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER AND SO SOMEBODY WHO COMES ACROSS WITH CREDIBILITY NOT VERBIAGE BUT CREDIBILITY AND BOB DOLE IF HE ADOPTS THAT AGENDA AS I THINK HE WILL THE FACT THAT HE IS NOT GLIB AND ARTICULATE WILL STAND AS A STARK AND I THINK CONVINCING CONTRAST TO SOMEBODY WHO IS VERY FREE WITH WORDS BUT LOOK AT HIS ACTUAL PERFORMANCE WELL WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT YOUR GLIBNESS OR ARTICULATENESS DO YOU THINK THAT WORKED FOR YOU BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU CAMPAIGNED AND YOU HAD A SURE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU BELIEVED IN BUT YOU WERE NOT AS SMOOTH ON THE PLATFORM AS BILL CLINTON HAS BEEN IN HIS THAT IT WORKED FOR YOU BECAUSE IT GAVE YOU AUTHENTICITY I THINK THAT THE VOTERS SENSE VERY QUICKLY DOES THIS PERSON HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE THE COUNTRY'S AT WHERE THE COUNTRY'S GOING WHAT OUR PROBLEMS ARE WHAT OUR OPPORTUNITIES ARE AND WHETHER YOU'RE SPEAKING FROM THE HEART OR WHETHER YOU'RE SPEAKING OFF THE TELEPROMPTER WHETHER AND THAT'S WHY THESE IN THESE EARLY PRIMARY STATES THESE Q. AND A'S YOU HAVE WHETHER IT'S AT THE ROTARY CLUB OR COFFEE CLATCHES OR THE LIKE WHERE THEY CAN ASK YOU DIRECTLY QUESTIONS NOT THROUGH AN INTERMEDIARY THEY CAN SENSE DOES THIS PERSON HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE HE'S COMING FROM OR WHERE THE COUNTRY CAN GO WHETHER HE IS WHETHER THE MESSAGE AND AND THE FACT IS HIS OWN OR WHETHER HE'S READING IT FROM A CUE CARD YEAH AND THE FACT THAT AT THE TIME THAT MY CAMPAIGN WAS STARTING TO PICK UP SOME STEAM MAKING SOME MOVING FORWARD WAS AT THE TIME THAT MANY POLITICAL REPORTERS WERE SAYING THIS GUY DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO SMILE RIGHT HE'S A RICH BOY HE DOESN'T DO THE THINGS THAT POLITICIANS SHOULD DO HE'S AWKWARD HE'S NOT DOING THE THINGS HE SHOULD DO IN THESE EARLY STATES VOTERS GIVE THEM CREDIT CAN SEE THROUGH THAT STUFF AND THEY THEY WANT CERTAINLY THIS TIME THEY WANT SUBSTANCE AND THAT'S HOW WE GOT AS FAR AS WE DID HOW SIGNIFICANT ARE PAID COMMERCIALS TO POLITICAL SUCCESS IT IS I THINK ESSENTIAL BECAUSE IT'S A WAY TO GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS WITHOUT SOMEBODY FILTERING IT OR SAYING I DON'T AGREE WITH IT OR I AGREE WITH IT YOU LOOK AT MY FLAT TAX COMMERCIALS AND YOU LOOK AT HOW IT WAS REPORTED IN THE MEDIA AND IT WAS DAY AND NIGHT I NEVER COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT MESSAGE ACROSS WITHOUT HAV HAVING THOSE COMMERCIALS IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO TALK DIRECTLY THERE ARE OTHER WAYS ASIDE FROM ONE ON ONE TALK SHOWS RADIO SHOWS AND THE LIKE BUT THAT WAS THE WAY YOU COULD GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT THERE AND OTHERWISE PEOPLE WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN YOU YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THESE NEWS REPORTS THEY MADE IT SOUND LIKE MY FLAT TAX SEVENTEEN PERCENT WAS ON ALL OF YOUR INCOME THEY LEFT OUT THE FACT THAT A FAMILY OF FOUR WOULD PAY NO TAX ON THEIR FIRST THIRTY SIX THOUSAND THE GOVERNOR OF ONE OF THOSE EARLY STATES BALDLY MISSTATED MY FLAT TAX POSITION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE OH I'LL I'LL OH COME ON NOW WHERE WHAT ABOUT SURE SURE SURE SURE SEE THERE I MEAN THERE YOU ARE BECOMING LIKE A POLI I MEAN IT WAS OBVIOUS NO NO I'M TRYING TO BE CHARITABLE NOW THAT IT'S OVER I I HIT THEM HARD WHEN I WAS WHEN I WAS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AS TOUGH AS I SAW YOU GET WAS WHEN YOU FELT LIKE HE HAD MISSTATED YOUR RECORD WITH RESPECT TO THAT YEAH AND CAME FORWARD AND SAID THAT SO MANY PEOPLE COME TO THIS TABLE AND IT REALLY IS AND CONSULTANTS CANDIDATES POLICY ADVISORS AND THEY'LL SIT AND THEY'LL TALK TO ME ABOUT A PARTICULAR CANDIDATE OR A PARTICULAR POSITION THE CAMERA WILL GO OFF AND THEY'LL GO IN THE OTHER ROOM AND WE'LL SIT AND TALK AS THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES WHEN OUR ALLOTTED TIME IS UP AND WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT A PARTICULAR CANDIDATE IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY JUST SAID BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE GENEROUS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SORT OF RAISE THE WHITE FLAG OF SURRENDER MY QUESTION OUT OF THAT IS IF YOU AND I WALK OUT OF HERE ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE A MUCH TOUGHER ASSESSMENT OF WHERE YOU THINK THE DOLE CAMPAIGN IS THAN YOU ARTICULATE IN THE MINUTES THAT WE'VE SPENT TOGETHER SO FAR NUMBER I THINK THE WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO WIN IS VERY BASIC HAVE THIS PRO GROWTH PRO HOPE AGENDA AND THAT WILL DO IT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IF YOU DON'T HAVE SUBSTANCE TO OFFER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ON HOW TO GET THE COUNTRY MOVING WHAT KIND OF NATION WE CAN BE WHAT OUR ROLE SHOULD BE OVERSEAS HOW WE PROVIDE GENUINE OPPORTUNITY HERE AT HOME GOING TURNING THE WORD OPPORTUNITY FROM A WORD OF RHETORIC TO A DESCRIPTIVE WORD WHICH IT ISN'T FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS TODAY IF YOU DON'T PUT THOSE KIND OF AGENDA THAT KIND OF AGENDA ON THE TABLE THERE'S NO WAY HE CAN WIN HE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PUCKER HIS LIPS THE WAY BILL CLINTON CAN BILL CLINTON ON THE SUPERFICIALITIES DOES VERY WELL THE ONLY WAY HE CAN BEAT HIM IS ON SUBSTANCE WHAT DO YOU THINK OF BILL CLINTON I THINK THAT I I ADMIRE OR RESPECT I SHOULD SAY HIS POLITICAL SKILLS THE WAY HE BOUNCES BACK FROM SEEMINGLY IMPOSSIBLE SITUATIONS BUT OH I'LL SAY THIS ON THE AIR WHAT I'D SAY TO YOU OFF THE AIR THE MAN LACKS CORE I THINK THE VOTERS SENSE THAT THERE'S NOT A CORE THERE NO CORE NO CORE BELIEFS NO CORE CHARACTER NO NO CORE WHAT THERE THERE'S NO INNER COMPASS AND THAT'S WHY HE CAN WITH EQUAL SINCERITY SAY THE OPPOSITE THINGS EACH DAY HE'S A MAN TO BE BLUNT WHO HAS TO GET UP EACH DAY LOOK AT THE POLLS TO FIND OUT WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT DAY AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THE COUNTRY NEEDS RIGHT NOW IT NEEDS TRULY THE VISION THING EVERY PRESIDENT SINCE EISENHOWER WHO'S BEEN ABOVE FIFTY PERCENT IN APPROVAL AT THE TIME OF THE NATIONAL CONVENTION HAS GONE ON TO WIN REELECTION THIS IS THE WONDERFUL THING ABOUT AMERICA IS THAT PRECEDENT DOESN'T ALWAYS HOLD WE'RE ALWAYS BREAKING THE RULES WHETHER IT'S TRUMAN BEING BEHIND IN THE POLLS IN FORTY EIGHT BUSH BEING BEHIND IN EIGHTY EIGHT BUSH LOOKING INVINCIBLE IN NINETY TWO AN OUTSIDER LIKE ME COMING ALONG AN ARKANSAS GOVERNOR COMING ALONG WE WE DON'T LET THE PAST DETERMINE OUR FUTURE IS ABORTION GOING TO BE A REAL PROBLEM FOR SENATOR DOLE AT THE CONVENTION NOT IF HE SAYS THE PLATFORM IS A GOAL AND THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS WAYS OF REACHING THAT GOAL I I DON'T THINK IT'S IT'LL THEY'LL THEY'LL HAVE A FIGHT ABOUT IT BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE THAT'S GOING TO DESTROY OR SPLIT THE PARTY WHAT SHOULD HE SAY THAT'S THE WHAT HE SHOULD SAY THAT THE PLATFORM IS ONLY A GOAL THAT REFLECTS THE DIVERSITY OF OUR PARTY AND WELL WHAT HE SHOULD SAY MOVING ON IS WHAT I TRIED TO GET ACROSS IN THE IN THE PRIMARIES IS THAT THE PLATFORM IS A GOAL BUT TO ACHIEVE A GOAL IN A DEMOCRACY YOU HAVE TO PERSUADE PEOPLE THAT'S ONE ON ONE RIGHT NOW THE POLLS ARE RIGHT IN THE SENSE THAT THERE IS NOT EVEN PROBABLY A MAJORITY THAT WOULD BE WILLING TO BAN ABORTIONS FOR THE WHOLE PREGNANCY THERE IS A CONSENSUS THAT YOU CAN REACH TODAY I THINK ON BANNING IT FOR LATE PREGNANCIES BARRING A LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY THAT WOULD BAN IT FOR PURPOSES OF SEX SELECTION OF THE BABY MANDATORY GOVERNMENT FUNDING AND CERTAINLY SUPPORT FOR PARENTAL NOTIFICATION IN THE CASE OF ALL THOSE THINGS YOU WOULD SUPPORT MINORS I WOULD SUPPORT AND I WOULD SUPPORT I WANT ABORTIONS TO GO BUT I I TOOK THE APPROACH THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE IT STEP BY STEP IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE LAW CHANGE THE CULTURE YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE CULTURE BUT TO CHANGE THE CULTURE YOU TRY TO CHANGE THE LAW LITTLE BY LITTLE WE DON'T WANT A REPEAT OF PROHIBITION IT HAS TO COME FROM THE HEART I THINK THERE WILL BE A CHANGE IN AMERICA BUT YOU HAVE TO USE PERSUASION NO NO SHORTCUTS IN A DEMOCRACY YOU SEEM THEN TO STAND WITH GOVERNOR WHITMAN GOVERNOR WILSON AND GOVERNOR PATAKI NOT NOT ON THE ISSUE THEY AS I UNDERSTAND IT FOR EXAMPLE ARE ALL PRO CHOICE YEAH THEY'RE PRO CHOICE BUT I WANT ABORTIONS TO GO I THINK MY APPROACH IS THE WAY TO MAKE PROGRESS ON THE ISSUE IF YOU MAKE PROGRESS IN ONE ONE AREA THEN YOU CAN PERHAPS PERSUADE PEOPLE TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP ONE STEP AT A TIME I I DON'T WANT THIS DEADLOCK TO GO ON FOR ANOTHER TWENTY THREE YEARS GOVERNOR WELD FOR EXAMPLE ON THE ISSUE FOR EXAMPLE OF PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTIONS SUPPORTS THE PRESIDENT'S VETO I FOUND IT APPALLING THE CHRISTIAN COALITION AND ITS INFLUENCE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HOW SIGNIFICANT I THINK THE THING THAT YOU LEARN VERY QUICKLY IN THE WHEN YOU GO WITH THE VOTERS IS THAT VOTERS VOTE AS INDIVIDUALS THEY JOIN ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHARED PURPOSES AND GOALS BUT THEY DON'T TAKE DICTATION FROM ABOVE YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO GO AND PERSUADE THEM IOWA SOME OF THE LEADERSHIP SOME SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE LEADERS ATTACKED ME AND IT HURT I THEN ENGAGED IN DIALOGUES YOU WERE IN A MEETING WITH THEM NOT JUST WITH THE LEADERS BUT ALSO IN STATES LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE AND ELSEWHERE DIRECTLY WITH THE VOTERS WHERE THEY COULD ASK ME QUESTIONS I COULD TALK TO THEM DIRECTLY AND IN STATES LIKE ARIZONA I GOT A GOOD PERCENT OF THAT VOTE BECAUSE PEOPLE COULD HEAR ME SPEAK AND THEY MADE THEIR OWN MINDS UP STEVE FORBES RAN FOR PRESIDENT IN NINETEEN NINETY SIX AND MAY RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN RUNS FORBES MAGAZINE WHICH IS A FULL TIME JOB IN ITSELF THANK YOU VERY MUCH THANK YOU WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK DOMINICK DUNNE IS HERE WE'LL TALK ABOUT HIS WORK STAY WITH US DOMINICK DUNNE IS THIS CENTURY'S PREEMINENT CHRONICLER OF AMERICA'S RICH FAMOUS AND FALLEN AS A WRITER FOR VANITY FAIR HE HAS COVERED CLAUS VON BULOW WILLIAM KENNEDY SMITH AND THE MENENDEZ BROTHERS HE WAS A FIXTURE AT THE SIMPSON TRIAL BESIDE THE FAMILY OF RON GOLDMAN HE IS A BESTSELLING AUTHOR HIS NOVELS MIRROR REAL LIFE DRAMAS AND LOOK BEHIND THE FACADE OF HIGH SOCIETY HIS FIFTH NOVEL A SEASON IN PURGATORY IS THE SUBJECT OF AN UPCOMING TELEVISION SERIES AND I AM PLEASED TO HAVE HIM HERE ANY TIME AND ESPECIALLY NOW WELCOME BACK CHARLIE GREAT TO SEE YOU GREAT TO SEE YOU LET ME JUST RUN THROUGH THESE SIR TELL ME GUILTY OR INNOCENT OR DID THEY DO NOT GUILTY OR INNOCENT BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS GET THE QUESTION OF WHAT A JURY SAID IS FINAL DO YOU THINK THEY DID WHAT CHARGED CLAUS VON BULOW CLAUS VON BULOW WELL YOU KNOW YES WILLIAM KENNEDY SMITH YES MENENDEZ BROTHERS ADMITTED WELL WE KNOW THAT O. J. SIMPSON OF COURSE WHAT IS IT ABOUT I'M NOT SURE YOU KNOW I JUST WANT TO QUALIFY A LITTLE BIT ON CLAUS I THINK HE CERTAINLY DIDN'T WANT HER ALIVE LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY AND HE DIDN'T CALL FOR HELP FOR SUNNY HE WHETHER HE ACTUALLY ADMINISTERED SOMETHING THAT KILLED HER THAT I I MUST SAY I DO NOT KNOW THAT I DO NOT HAVE A WHETHER HE INJECTED HER WITH INSULIN OR WHATEVER IT WAS YEAH YEAH DO YOU THINK ALAN DERSHOWITZ KNOWS I THINK THEY ALL KNOW THEY DO IT IS ABSOLUTELY MY FEELING YOU KNOW I I KNEW A GUY DURING THE TRIAL I STILL KNOW HIM AND VON BULOW NO NO I'M TALKING ABOUT SIMPSON O. J. SIMPSON RIGHT WHO WAS VERY IN WITH THE DEFENSE TEAM VERY VERY CLOSE TO THEM AND ONE DAY I SAID TO HIM HOW MANY OF THEM KNOW AND HE SAID OH THEY ALL KNOW BUT THEY NEVER TALK ABOUT IT AND YOU KNOW I BELIEVE THAT BARRY SCHECK HAS BEEN HERE A NUMBER I KNOW OF TIMES WITH ME HE KIND OF ADOPTS AN AGNOSTIC YEAH QUALITY ABOUT IT HE'S A VERY INTERESTING MAN BARRY SCHECK I THINK HE WAS BY FAR THE BEST LAWYER ON THE DEFENSE TEAM I THINK HE'S A BRILLIANT BRILLIANT LAWYER THAT MEANS HE WAS THE BEST LAWYER IN THE COURTROOM CORRECT CORRECT I DON'T FEEL THE SAME ABOUT HIS PARTNER NEUFELD BUT I DO ABOUT BARRY AND HE'S HE'S A BRILLIANT MAN AND ONCE HE REVEALED SOMETHING TO ME ABOUT HIMSELF IN A PRIVATE MOMENT IN WHICH I FELT THAT THERE WAS A SOUL IN THERE THAT THERE WAS A PERHAPS A TROUBLED CONSCIENCE WITHIN AND IT CHANGED MY WHOLE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM WHAT HAPPENS YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE IN A ROOM THE SAME ROOM WITH THE SAME PEOPLE FOR A YEAR YOU KNOW YOU ALL GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND WE ALL KNEW EACH OTHER IN THE THOSE OF US WHO WERE THE THE REGULARS IN THE ROOM AND YOU KNOW I I'M OUTSPOKEN IN HOW I FEEL BUT IT DOESN'T KEEP THE DEFENSE FROM COMING AND TALKING TO ME I NEVER CHASE AFTER THEM BUT IT'S JUST AMAZING TO ME HOW OFTEN THE DEFENSE CAME AND BARRY SCHECK WANTED TO TALK TO YOU YEAH ABOUT WHAT WELL IT WAS ABOUT HIS FEELINGS ABOUT THE GOLDMAN FAMILY YOU KNOW I BECAME VERY CLOSE TO THE GOLDMANS AND JUDGE ITO SEATED ME NEXT TO THEM AND I AND I I WASN'T PICKED FROM THE LOTTERY FOR MY SEAT I WAS ASSIGNED A SEAT BY JUDGE ITO AND HE SAID TO ME YOU KNOW I THINK THAT YOU WILL BE SENSITIVE TO THE FEELINGS OF THE GOLDMAN FAMILY AND WHAT HE WAS REFERRING TO WAS THE FACT THAT I TOO HAD LOST A A CHILD IN A HOMICIDE CASE AND AND BUT THE GO IS THAT WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE GOLDMANS YEAH CERTAINLY WELL I MEAN WELL WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAWYERS AND AND WHETHER SCHECK SHOWED YOU SOME SENSITIVITY TO YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE GOLDMANS YES HE DID AND HE WANTED I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY BECAUSE YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS THAT HE WANTED THE GOLDMANS TO KNOW TO KNOW THAT'S TRUE THAT HE WAS SENSITIVE TO THEIR PAIN THAT'S RIGHT THEIR SUFFERING THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT AND I TOLD THE GOLDMANS THAT AND THEY WERE SHALL WE SAY INDIFFERENT THEY DID NOT SAY OH YOU KNOW AND I COULD SEE I COULD UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES BUT LET'S NOT MISS THE MAIN POINT HERE BARRY SCHECK IN YOUR JUDGMENT KNEW O. J. SIMPSON DID THE CRIME WELL I AND I BELIEVE THAT I MEAN HE DIDN'T HE HAS NEVER SAID SUCH A THING AND I JUST I JUST WANT TO JUST FINISH TELLING YOU THIS TWO DAYS LATER HE SAID TO ME ONCE IN A IN A AFTER THIS EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIENCE WE HAD HAD TOGETHER HE SAID I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION DOMINICK THAT I TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BELIEVE IN THE INNOCENCE OF O. J. SIMPSON SO YOU KNOW THAT WAS THE THAT WAS BOTH SIDES ALL RIGHT BUT YOU WERE THERE IN THE COURTROOM YOU BELIEVE COCHRAN THOUGHT SIMPSON DID IT YES I DO YOU DO YEAH AND HIS JOB WAS TO GET HIM OFF YEAH IT WAS ALL THEIR JOB I MEAN THAT'S WHY YOU SPEND ALL THAT MONEY BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE SIMPSON CASE AND THE FACTS AND NOT BELIEVE THAT HE COMMITTED THE CRIME I BELIEVE YES BECAUSE PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE D. N. A. I MEAN THERE'S JUST NO THERE'S NO EXPLANATION OTHER THAN THAT THERE'S A LOT IN THIS STORY THAT STILL HASN'T COME OUT YET LIKE WHAT I DON'T KNOW IF IT EVER WILL WELL YOU KNOW WE STARTED YOU KNOW ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING PIECES PLAYERS IN THIS STORY IS KARDASHIAN YEAH AND YOU KNOW KARDASHIAN KNOWS MORE THAN WHAT HE IS TELLING US HE'S THE GUY THAT THAT HAD THE BAG WITH WHATEVER WAS IN IT HE HAD THE BAG YEAH AND SAID HE NEVER LOOKED IN IT AND NEVER WANTED TO KNOW YEAH YOU SEE I DON'T ACTUALLY I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BLOODY CLOTHES WERE IN THAT BAG WHAT I BELIEVE IS THAT WHEN HE AND O. J. WENT TO THE LOS ANGELES AIRPORT TO PICK UP THE GOLF BAGS TO PICK UP THE GOLF BAG THAT O. J. HAD HAD TO LEAVE BEHIND IN IN CHICAGO I THINK THE KNIFE WAS PROBABLY IN THE GOLF BAG DO YOU UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT COULD GO YEAH THROUGH THE THE SYSTEM YOU KNOW BECAUSE THE METAL DETECTORS YEAH AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY KARDASHIAN GOT RID OF THAT GOT RID OF THE KNIFE WELL I YOU KNOW I DON'T KNOW THIS BUT I MEAN SOMETHING OKAY THESE GUYS ALL KNOW MORE AS AL COWLINGS KNOWS MORE WHAT DO YOU THINK HE KNOWS A LOT I MEAN BECAUSE O. J. TALKED TO HIM IN THAT YEAH WELL O. FAMOUS RIDE YEAH AND BECAUSE HE WAS HIS BEST FRIEND YEAH BUT BUT EVEN AND BECAUSE HE SPENT TIME WITH HIM PROXIMATE TO TO THE MURDER THE MURDER YEAH YEAH WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY SOMEBODY HAD TO COME IN AND CLEAN UP THAT HOUSE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN SOMEBODY HAD TO THERE WERE THINGS THAT HAD TO BE PUT AWAY IN THERE THIS IS ROCKINGHAM YEAH I MEAN BEFORE IT HE HAD THE LIMO OUTSIDE HE HAD TAKEN A SHOWER SOMEBODY HAD TO GET YOU KNOW THINGS HAD TO BE GOTTEN RID OF DO YOU BELIEVE THAT FUHRMAN PLANTED EVIDENCE I DO NOT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT VANNATTER LIED AT ALL WELL I'LL TE YES I MEAN I THINK THAT WHEN HE SAID THAT O. J. WAS NOT A SUSPECT WHEN HE WENT TO THE HOUSE I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL THOUGHT I MEAN I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT I MEAN YOU KNOW IN ANY KIND OF MURDER CASE WHEN A WOMAN IS MURDERED THE THE HUSBAND THE BOYFRIEND IS ALWAYS THE FIRST PERSON THAT THEY SU THAT THEY SUSPECT I THINK THAT WAS STUPID FOR THEM TO HAVE I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A LIE OR NOT WELL I GUESS IT IS A LIE I MEAN YOU KNOW OF COURSE THEY SUSPECTED HIM YEAH THE LAPD WITHOUT THEIR CONDUCT AND THE ACCUSATIONS MADE BY THE DEFENSE WOULD THE PROSECUTION HAVE PREVAILED IN OTHER WORDS DID THE PROSECUTION HAVE AN UN UN A BURDEN TO BEAR THAT ALMOST MADE THEIR CASE IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN WELL THEY DID REALLY I MEAN I MEAN YOU KNOW THE THE WORK THAT WAS DONE BY THE YOU KNOW THE TECHNICIANS AND SO FORTH WHO WENT TO GATHER THE I MEAN THAT WAS THE WORST THING I EVER AND SO MUCH OF IT WAS ON VIDEOTAPE PEOPLE WALKING THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE AND NOT HAVING THE PROPER THINGS AND YOU KNOW VAN IT'S ALWAYS BOTHERED ME ABOUT VANNATTER CARRYING THAT BLOOD IN HIS POCKET FOR ALL THAT TIME YEAH THAT'S ALS THAT'S AS INEXPLICABLE INEXPLI I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY SAY OR THEY THINK THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT I MEAN DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN THAT ANYONE WOULD KNOW THAT SOMETHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON A HOT DAY TO BLOOD IN A TUBE IN YOUR POCKET ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A TWENTY YEAR VETERAN OF THE OF COURSE POLICE FORCE YEAH THERE'S SOMETHING OFF THERE WHO HAS HAD THE MOST HONEST CONVERSATION WITH SIMPSON THAT YOU KNOW OF I MEAN HAVE YOU MET ANYBODY TALKED TO ANYBODY WHO FEELS LIKE THEY HAD AN HONEST CONVERSATION NUMBER BECAUSE ONE THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS HAVE COME ON THIS BROADCAST AND SAY OF ALL THE MEETINGS I'VE EVER HAD WITH O. J. THERE WAS NOT A TIME THAT HE DIDN'T PROTEST HIS INNOCENCE THAT HE DIDN'T YOU KNOW AND IT WASN'T NECESSARY FOR THEM TO SAY THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS CONVERSATION BUT SOMEONE I KNOW WHO WHO KNOWS HIM VERY VERY WELL KNOWS SIMPSON YES INDEED IS AND IS ON VERY CLOSE TERMS WITH HIM AT THIS MOMENT SAID JUST THE OTHER DAY IF HE HAD TO TAKE A LIE DETECTOR TEST NOW HE'D PASS IT I JUST FIND THAT FASCINATING WHICH MEANS THAT HE HAS SO INDOCTRINATED HIMSELF WITH THIS STORY THAT HE IS TEL I FIND THAT FASCINATING I DO TOO BUT I HEARD THAT A LONG TIME AGO NORMAN MAILER TOLD ME THAT LAWRENCE WHATEVER HIS NAME IS SHILLER SHILLER SAID HE EITHER DIDN'T DO IT OR HE BELIEVES HE DIDN'T DO IT YEAH YEAH THAT HE'S CONVINCED HIMSELF I THINK HE HA WELL COURSE HE HAS THAT HE DIDN'T WHY IS HE GOING ON TELEVISION IN LONDON ON SOME PROGRAM CALLED THE TONIGHT SHOW TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IT'S SO DESPERATE IT'S SO DESPERATE DESPERATE FOR WHAT I MEAN YOU KNOW NOTHING IS WORKING IN THIS MAN'S LIFE YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT YOU KNOW THE VIDEO WAS A BIG FLOP DIDN'T MAKE A LOT OF MONEY I DON'T KNOW NO IT DIDN'T NOT MONEY QUITE JUST A LITTLE UNDER THIRTY THOUSAND COPIES AND THEY SAY THAT TEN THOUSAND OF THOSE WERE FOR THE MEDIA I MEAN THAT'S NOT A BIG BIG DEAL IF YOU'RE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO PAY OFF YOUR LAWYERS ON AND AND YOU KNOW JUST NOTHING IS IS IS WORKING OUT IN HIS LIFE AND NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES HE GOES ON T. V. AND NO MATTER HE'S NOT CONVINCING ANYONE ANYMORE THAT WHAT HE IS SAYING IS TRUE IT'S LIKE THE COUNTRY IS ON TO HIM AND HE MUST KNOW THAT NOW NOW HE'S GOING TO TRY IT IN ENGLAND FOR MONEY AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HIS HEAD SAYS TO HIM ABOUT THAT I MEAN AS WE WATCH HIM BE REJECTED AT ALL THE PLACES THAT HE USED TO WELL YOU SEE CAMP OUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE AL COWLINGS IS IN HIS LIFE FOR I THINK PROBABLY TO AL COWLINGS HE CAN SAY THINGS THAT HE CAN'T SAY TO ANYONE ELSE OR TO ARNELLE YOU KNOW HIS DAUGHTER IS A REALLY NICE AND LOVELY YOUNG WOMAN YEAH AND I THINK YOU THINK HE CONFIDES IN HER HONESTLY OR YOU THINK I'M NOT I'M NOT SURE THAT BUT I THINK THEY'RE SO CLOSE THAT HE MIGHT I MEAN THE HURTS IT HAS TO HURT HIM IT HAS TO HURT HIM THAT HE IS BEING REBUFFED THAT NOBODY IS BEL THERE'S SOMEBODY YOU'VE GOT TO UNLOAD THIS TO SOME HAVE SAID IT'S A WORSE PUNISHMENT THAN BEING JUDGED GUILTY YEAH FOR HIM YEAH JUST TO KNOW THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS YEAH HE'S FREE TO WALK AROUND NOW A LOT OF OTHERS WHO ARE IN PRISON WOULD SAY COME ON GIVE ME A BREAK YEAH THERE'S NOTHING COMPARES TO BEING INSIDE AND NOT HAVING YOUR FREEDOM BUT YOU SEE HE ISN'T LIKE JUST ANY PRISONER WHO WHO WHO GOT OFF HE HAS ONE OF THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE FACES ON EARTH NOW DO YOU KNOW AFTER THAT TRI THERE'S NOWHERE HE CAN GO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO REACT AND REACT BADLY TO HIM MENENDEZ BROTHERS THEY YES YOU SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT NO NOT TO ME I THINK THAT THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT LIFE WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF OF PAROLE I HAPPEN NOT TO BELIEVE IN CAPITAL IN THE IN THE DEATH PENALTY I JUST DON'T AND I MEAN I WOULD NEVER GO OUT AND STAND OUTSIDE A PRISON AT NIGHT WITH A CANDLE I MEAN I DON'T FEEL THAT STRONGLY BUT BUT ON THE OTHER HAND BUT INTELLECTUALLY AND PHILOSOPHICALLY YOU'RE OPPOSED TO THE STATE TAKING LIFE YEAH YEAH NOT SO NOT SO ON A COLD WINDY NIGHT TO STAND OUTSIDE ON BEHALF OF SOMEBODY HOW ARE YOU DOING NOW YOU HAVE THIS TERRIBLE THING ABOUT YOUR SON WHO YOU THOUGHT WAS LOST RIGHT WELL HE WAS LOST HE WAS LOST FOR FIVE DAYS AND I LEFT THE TRIAL AT THAT TIME AND I WENT TO SEE JUDGE ITO FIRST AND EXPLAINED TO HIM AND AND I WENT AND YOU KNOW IT WAS THE EXPERIENCE WHICH WAS ONE OF THE MOST HORRIBLE EXPERIENCES OF ALL TIME AND AFTER THE AFTER ALL YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH WELL I MEAN TO THINK I MEAN YOU YOU'VE BEEN DOWN IN THE VALLEY I KNOW I'VE BEEN DOWN IN THE VALLEY BUT TO THINK I KEPT THINKING HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME AGAIN OR NOT TO ME BUT TO US TO MY WIFE TO MY KIDS AND TO MY SONS AND HOW COULD THIS BE HAPPENING AGAIN AND AFTER THE FOURTH DAY CHARLIE I SAID TO GRIFFIN MY OLDER SON I SAID HE'S DEAD HE HAS TO BE DEAD AND BUT YOU KNOW IT MADE ME IT HAD A IT MADE ME RE BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF PRAYER IT TRU I MEAN I CANNOT TELL YOU THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO SAID TO ME I PRAYED FOR YOU SON I PRAYED FOR YOU PEOPLE I DIDN'T KNOW IN THE SUPERMARKETS OF L. A. EVERYBODY EVERY PERSON I EVER KNEW I NEVER SAW ANYTHING LIKE IT AND THAT WAS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE AND IT ALSO MADE ME REALIZE THAT I WAS A PART OF THE STORY OF THE O. J. TRIAL BECAUSE WHEN I WAS OVER THERE YOU KNOW I HEARD FROM MARCIA CLARK I HEARD FROM GIL GARCETTI THE D. A. I HEARD FROM I DON'T KNOW WHO I DON'T KNOW BARRY SCHECK WHEN I GOT BACK JUST HUGGED ME LIKE THIS I MEAN IT IT JUST SHOWS THE REVERSE SIDE OF EVERYBODY YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE TRIAL WHEN IT CAME TO A FAMILY AND THE POSSIBILITY OF LOSING YOUR CHILD WE ALL SORT OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIENCE FOR ME CHRIS DARDEN I ADMIRE HIM ENORMOUSLY YOU KNOW EVERY DAY OF THE TRIAL YOU KNOW JOHNNIE COCHRAN WOULD SAY TO JUDGE ITO YOUR HONOR THIS TRIAL IS A SEARCH FOR TRUTH WHO WOULD SAY THAT JOHNNIE COCHRAN HE SAID IT EVERY DAY YOUR HONOR THIS THIS TRIAL IS A SEARCH FOR TRUTH AND THEN HE'D GO ON AND TELL US THAT WHILE THE MURDER WAS TAKING PLACE O. J. WAS CHIPPING GOLF CLUBS AND THE COLOMBIAN DRUG GANG OVER HERE WAS KILLING NICOLE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT SHE WAS FAYE RESNICK I MEAN IT WAS ABSURD WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND AND BUT CHRIS DARDEN WAS LIKE A BEACON OF LIGHT TO ME IN THAT IN THAT TRIAL HE HE HAS ETHICS AND HE LOST AND HE MADE SOME TERRIBLE MISTAKES THE GLOVE THING EVERYTHING BUT AS A HUMAN BEING I THINK HE WAS THE FINEST PERSON IN THAT ROOM MARCIA CLARK MARCIA CLARK IS A VERY BRIGHT VERY FUNNY VERY GOOD PROSECUTOR BUT I THINK SHE MADE A COUPLE OF REALLY BAD ERRORS AND I THINK ONE WAS DURING JURY SELECTION WHEN SHE WAS ADVISED THAT AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN WOULD NOT RESPOND TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN THE SAME WAY THAT CAUCASIAN WOMEN WOULD AND SHE SAID IN EFFECT I AM A WOMAN I KNOW I KNOW WHAT I FEEL WELL I MEAN SHE WAS WRONG AND THE PEOPLE WHO ADVISED HER AND I THINK IT WAS WRONG ALSO AND IT WAS A TERRIBLE CALL ABOUT FUHRMAN THAT THEY PUT AS MUCH THAT THEY MADE HIM AS PROMINENT BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN WARNED ABOUT FUHRMAN BY DARDEN AMONG OTHERS QUICK QUESTION ABOUT I WANT TO MOVE ON TO TO WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON TELEVISION A SEASON IN PURGATORY BASED ON YOUR BOOK WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE YOU ARE WRITING A NOVEL ABOUT THIS THIS IS A NOVEL BUT IT'S BASED ON A STORY THAT TOOK PLACE IN CONNECTICUT WHY DO IT THAT WAY WELL I TELL YOU THERE'S THINGS I CAN TELL THIS WAY THAT I WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME TELLING I MEAN I HAD SOME INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCES AND I IT'S ALL GOING TO BE VERY CLEAR WHO EVERYBODY IS BELIEVE ME EVERYBODY WILL KNOW AND BUT YOU KNOW WHEN I SAY THIS IS LIKE WHAT TRUMAN CAPOTE DID WITH IN COLD BLOOD IN COLD BLOOD IT'S I MEAN HE TOOK THAT'S A FACTUAL STORY WRITTEN IN THE STYLE OF A NOVEL AND I KIND OF LIKE THAT STYLE AND AND ALSO YOU KNOW I MOVE IN SO MANY CIRCLES IN LOS ANGELES THAT I MEAN I'M DEALING WITH JUST NOT THE TRIAL BUT I'M DEALING WITH THE OBSESSION OF A CITY DURING THAT TRIAL IT WAS THE MOST FASCINATING THING I EVER SAW IN MY LIFE AND NO MATTER WHAT GROUP OR WHAT THING I WAS IN THIS WAS THE MAIN TOPIC OF NO MATTER WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND I WANT TO CATCH ALL THAT IN THIS BOOK THERE WAS THIS ONE STORY THAT MADE THE ROUNDS ABOUT HOWARD WEITZMAN THE FIRST ATTORNEY OH I KNOW AT A DINNER PARTY SURE YOU DO THERE'S NOBODY IN L. A. OF CONSEQUENCE YOU DON'T KNOW THAT'S THAT HE WAS TELLING A STORY ABOUT WHAT WAS THE STORY THAT WAS MAKING THE ROUNDS AT DINNER PARTIES THAT HE WAS TELLING A STORY THAT I HEARD AND THAT HIS WI YOU KNOW COME ON IT WAS THE THE STORY THAT MADE THE ROUNDS WAS THAT MARGARET WEITZMAN IS A FABULOUS WOMAN AND TERRIFICALLY OUTSPOKEN SAID IF HOWARD HADN'T GIVEN UP THAT CASE I WOULD HAVE DIVORCED HIM I SEE BECAUSE BECAUSE WELL YOU SEE THEY HAD KNOWN O. J. BEFORE BECAUSE HOWARD HAD REPRESENTED HIM DO YOU REMEMBER IN ONE OF THE NI AFTER ONE OF THE NINE HUNDRED ELEVEN CALLS AND MARGARET WEITZMAN KNEW NICOLE AND KNEW THAT O. J. HAD BEATEN HER SEASON IN PURGATORY YES NOW DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SCREENPLAY NOTHING NOTHING YOU SELL THE BOOK AND IT'S OFF AND RUNNING WELL YEAH I MEAN I USUALLY HAVE MORE TO DO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT I DIDN'T BECAUSE OF THE O. J. CASE AND MY OBSESSION WITH IT WHILE THEY WERE MAKING THIS I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT ALL RIGHT HERE'S A CLIP FROM THIS A SEASON IN PURGATORY WHICH AIRS ON C. B. S. MAY FIFTH AND MAY SEVENTH BRIAN DENEHEY IS IN THIS AND ALSO PATRICK DEMPSEY TAKE A LOOK THAT'S ON C. B. S. MAY FIFTH AND MAY SEVENTH A SEASON IN PURGATORY BASED ON AN EARLY BOOK BY DOMINICK DUNNE YOU ARE NOW WRITING THIS BOOK THAT'S BASED THE NOVEL ABOUT THE SIMPSON TRIAL AND AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE ALL THE CHARACTERS AND ALL THE STORIES THAT YOU COULDN'T TALK ABOUT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IN THAT BOOK AND IF THERE IS A GREAT TRIAL SOMEWHERE IN AMERICA YOU WILL BE THERE YOU'VE GOT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT YOU ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES THE FAMOUS YEAH YOU ARE DRAWN TO IT BECAUSE IT'S YEAH BECAUSE THE THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE RICH AND FAMOUS AS WE HAVE SEEN AS WE HAVE AS THE WORLD HAS SEEN IN THE IN THE O. J. SIMPSON TRIAL AND YOU KNOW THAT'S BASED ON AN ACTUAL CASE TOO INVOLVING ETHEL KENNEDY'S NEPHEW NEPHEW YEAH ALL RIGHT GREAT TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS CHARLIE GREAT TO SEE YOU DOMINICK DUNNE WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK STAY WITH US FOR MANY AMERICANS PLAYING THE STOCK MARKET IS A FRIGHTENING EXPERIENCE BETTER LEFT TO FINANCIAL BIGWIGS WHO EARN THEIR LIVING OFF THEIR EXPERTISE BUT BROTHERS DAVID AND TOM GARDNER HAVE SET OUT TO PROVE THAT EVEN FOOLS CAN BEAT WALL STREETERS AT THEIR OWN GAME THEIR MOTLEY FOOL INVESTMENT CLUB PROVIDES AN OPEN AND IRREVERENT FORUM FOR PUBLIC DISCUSSION ON THE INFORMATION HIGHWAY ITS SUCCESS AT BESTING THE MARKET HAS MADE IT ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR STOPS AND I AM PLEASED TO HAVE THESE TWO BROTHERS HERE THE MOTLEY FOOL INVESTMENT GUIDE HOW THE FOOL BEATS WALL STREET WISE MEN AND HOW YOU CAN TOO IS THEIR BOOK WELCOME THANK YOU GREAT TO HAVE YOU THANK YOU CHARLIE THANKS FOR HAVING US HOW DID THIS START FOR YOU GUYS WELL WE ACTUALLY JUST WELL INVESTING STARTED BECAUSE OUR FATHER GAVE US A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY YEAH RIGHT I RIGHT WHEN WE TURNED EIGHTEEN RIGHT AND THAT'S REALLY THE WAY IT ALL STARTED BUT BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T GET ANY INVESTMENT EDUCATION IN THIS COUNTRY AT ALL WE WERE FORTUNATE TO BE GIVEN A LITTLE AND START LEARNING IT BUT WE STARTED THE MOTLEY FOOL AS A PRINTED NEWSLETTER AND THEN TOOK IT ONTO AMERICA ON LINE ABOUT EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO AND IT'S REALLY CHANGED EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE SINCE AND HOW MANY STOPS PER WHAT DAY HOW DO YOU MEASURE IT THAT SOFTWARE IS JUST COMING TOGETHER FOR AMERICA ON LINE SO WE'RE JUST STARTING TO GET DEMOGRAPHICS IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT FOR US TO KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE COMING IN PER DAY BUT PER MONTH NOW WE HAVE ONE HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND HOUSEHOLDS SO YEAH AND WHAT IS IT THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW ABOUT THIS EXPERIENCE ABOUT YOU GUYS WELL I THINK WHAT'S REALLY FASCINATING ABOUT IT IS THAT IT IS INTERACTIVE MARSHALL MCLUHAN WROTE THAT THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE RIGHT AND THIS PARTICULAR MEDIUM IS TWO WAY THE FIRST INTERACTIVE MEDIUM AND AND SO PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY IF THEY LET'S SAY READ OUR BOOK AND DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING THEY CAN COME RIGHT ON LINE AND ASK US A QUESTION AND SO THERE'S THIS INCREDIBLE CONVERSATION THAT'S DEVELOPED IN THIS CASE ABOUT THE STOCK MARKET WHETHER IT'S ABOUT INDIVIDUAL STOCKS OR ABOUT HOW TO INVEST IN GENERAL WE ALL HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR MONEY AND HOW TO MANAGE IT BUT ALSO THOSE OF US WHO LOVE THE STOCK MARKET LIKE TO KEEP UP WITH COMPANIES LIKE SUN MICROSYSTEMS AND ALL THE THE YEAH EXCITING STOCKS OUT THERE AND SO THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY FASCINATING ABOUT IT IT'S A DISCUSSION AND PEOPLE CAN TALK BACK AND FORTH AND AND WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO BRING TO ENGAGE IN THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU GUYS THOUGH WHAT DO WHAT IS IT YOU HAVE TO BRING A CURIOSITY WHAT AN INTEREST IN IN BETTER RETURNS FOR YOUR YOUR ON YOUR SAVINGS YEAH I MEAN WE WE WELCOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT INVESTING WHO COME IN AND SAY I'VE USED A PRODUCT I'VE I AM IN THE SOFTWARE BUSINESS I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SMALL SOFTWARE COMPANIES OUT HERE IN SEATTLE BUT I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT INVESTING THEY CAN COME IN AND PARTICIPATE AND YOU HAVE WALL STREET ANALYSTS THAT KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE FINANCIAL SIDE BUT THEY'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE PRODUCTS SO THERE'S REALLY ROOM FOR EVERYONE TO COME IN AND AND YOU KNOW CONSUMER BUSINESS IS SIXTY FIVE PERCENT OF BUSINESS IN THE U. S. SO WE HAVE THE ADVANTAGES CONSUMER INVESTORS TO LOOK AROUND US AND SEE WHAT PUBLIC COMPANIES ARE OFFERING AND GET ON LINE AND TALK ABOUT IT AND AND WHAT KINDS OF COMPANIES ARE YOU INVESTING IN WELL WE ACTUALLY HAVE A REAL MIX PART OF OUR INVESTMENT APPROACH IS MIXING VERY LARGE COMPANIES THAT WE ALL KNOW COMPANIES LIKE GENERAL ELECTRIC AND CHEVRON AND SEARS WITH SMALL HIGH FLYERS THAT MANY OF US DON'T KNOW AND AND I WON'T EVEN BOTHER MENTIONING THE NAMES BUT THE THE POINT IS REALLY THAT YOU YOU START OFF WITH A FOUNDATION OF SOLID COMPANIES THAT HAVE POSTED HISTORICALLY GOOD RETURNS THEN YOU BEGIN TO MIX IN SOME MORE VOLATILE GROWTH STOCKS BECAUSE THOSE OFTEN CAN BE YOUR BEST WINNERS AND IN OUR MOTLEY FOOL PORTFOLIO WHICH WE OFFER ON LINE OUR WE'VE PUT UP SOME GREAT RETURNS OVER THE LAST EIGHTEEN MONTHS IN FACT WE TELL PEOPLE WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY THIS GOOD BUT WE'VE DONE SO LARGELY BY PICKING COMPANIES BEFORE WALL STREET FOUND THEM HOW DID YOU FIND THEM BEFORE WALL STREET FOUND THEM THERE'S A THERE'S A REAL MIX OF WAYS THAT WE DO INCREASINGLY ON LINE YOU JUST SEE THE CONVERSATIONS START UP WE CAN'T BE IN ON EVERY CONVERSATION NOW WE GET SOMETHING LIKE FIFTEEN HUNDRED NOTES A DAY RIGHT WE SAY IN THE BOOK WE'RE NOT GETTING TWO MOTLEY FOOL INVESTMENT GUIDES THROUGH OUR FORUM EVERY DAY THAT'S HOW MUCH INFORMATION IS FLOWING THROUGH THERE SO SITTING BACK AND LOOKING AT SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS BUT THEN WE REALLY DO LOOK FOR COMPANIES AS THEY ANNOUNCE EARNINGS COMPANIES HAVE TO ANNOUNCE EARNINGS FOUR TIMES A YEAR IT'S A GREAT TIME FOR INDIVIDUALS TO LOOK AROUND AND SAY OKAY THIS COMPANY'S GROWING SALES BY TWENTY FIVE PERCENT A YEAR OR EARNINGS BY TWENTY FIVE PERCENT A YEAR THIS IS A REALLY RAPID GROWTH SITUATION I MAY AS WELL CALL THEM AND GET THE FINANCIALS NOW WITH ON LINE YOU HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SAY DOES ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS COMPANY I THE THE FINANCIALS LOOK GREAT BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE PRODUCTS AND THERE'S A GREAT EXAMPLE FROM LAST YEAR WE BOUGHT A STOCK IN A COMPANY CALLED I OMEGA WHICH MAKES THE ZIP DRIVE YEAH WHICH MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH BUT IT IT WAS A WONDERFUL PRODUCT AND IT WAS OUT THERE ON THE SHELVES WELL BEFORE WALL STREET EVER FOUND OUT ABOUT IT PEOPLE STARTED POSTING NOTES ABOUT IT SAID YOU KNOW I CALLED ALL THE TEN COMPUTER SUPERSTORES IN MY CITY AND THERE AREN'T ANY THERE AND IN FACT I'VE COUNTED ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY SEVEN BACK ORDERS FOR IT AND THEN SOMEBODY ELSE IN ANOTHER CITY WOULD SAY THE SAME THING YEAH WE BEGAN TO PIECE IT TOGETHER AGAIN IT'S A NATIONAL CONVERSATION OF THE SORT THAT WAS NEVER POSSIBLE BEFORE THE TECHNOLOGY HOW ABOUT EMERGING MARKETS THOUGH HOW DO YOU GUYS I MEAN WITH THE WORLD WIDE WEB YOU KNOW DOES IT GIVE YOU ANY INSIGHT INTO EMERGING MARKETS WHICH SEEMS TO BE A PLACE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO BE IN NINETEEN NINETY SIX IT COULD IT COULD I MEAN I THINK IT PRESENTS THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING FOR IT AND WE DO HAVE A DISCUSSION OF FOREIGN STOCKS IN OUR AREA IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT INTERESTS US AT ALL I MEAN THE THE U. S. MARKET IS IS SO NOT NOT BUT EMERGING U. S. LIKE INTERNET STOCKS OH I NO NO I I'M TALKING ABOUT I'M TALKING ABOUT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD THEY COME ON YEAH RIGHT YOU KNOW WE THE U. S. MARKET IS SO BIG SO BROAD SO WELL REGULATED THAT I DON'T LIKE TO GET INVOLVED I DON'T THINK ANYONE IN OUR COMPANY LIKES TO GET INVOLVED IN STOCKS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET THE INFORMATION LAST YEAH BUT HOW DO YOU VERIFY THE INFORMATION YOU GET WELL YOU HAVE TO I MEAN IN OUR FORUM SO MUCH IS COMING THROUGH YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO VERIFY IT SOMETIMES YOU'VE GOT TO CALL THE COMPANY AND FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON BUT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS YOU'VE GOT AN ATMOSPHERE WE'VE CREATED AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE WE'VE SET STANDARDS AND WE'VE SAID COME IN AND GIVE US YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW AND LET'S BUILD TOGETHER AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH A VARIETY OF SMALLER CAP COMPANIES THAT WE COULD GET NEW INFORMATION ON ON OUR OWN AND PEOPLE ARE PARTICIPATING AND IT'S JUST FEEDING ON ITSELF SO THE COVERAGE IN OTHER STOCKHOLDERS THROW IN THAT WE BOUGHT THAT WE'VE SOLD IS RIDE SNOWBOARD A SEATTLE SNOWBOARD COMPANY NOW THAT WAS REALLY A PETER LYNCH PLAY FOR US WE NEVER WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A SNOWBOARD NEITHER OF US ARE SNOWBOARDERS BUT THERE IN OUR RIDE SNOWBOARD FOLDER WE KIDS STARTED COMING IN AND SAYING I LIKE THIS BOARD I LIKE THIS BOARD FOR THIS REASON PARENTS CAME IN AND SAID WELL MY SON'S SNOWBOARDING ON A RIDE SNOWBOARD AND I DID LOOK AT THE FINANCIALS AND THEY LOOK GREAT AND THEN YOU KNOW THE ANALYSTS FOLLOWING THE COMPANY OR THE UNDERWRITERS OF THE COMPANY ARE COMING IN AND POSTING NOTES AS WELL IN THAT FOLDER SO IT'S AN INCREDIBLE MIX OF OF IT'S A MOTLEY GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING ON LINE FROM WALL STREET ANALYSTS RIGHT ON DOWN TO CONSUMERS THAT HAVEN'T INVESTED BEFORE WHAT'S YOUR FISCAL YEAR WHEN IS YOUR FISCAL YEAR JANUARY DECEMBER CALENDAR YEAR FISCAL YEAR CALENDAR YEAH AND SO WHA AND HOW MUCH DID YOU MAKE LAST YEAR I MEAN WHAT WAS YOUR OUR COMPANY SALES REVENUE OUR COMPANY TOOK IN JUST UNDER A MILLION LAST YEAR OUR GOAL THIS YEAR IS THREE TO FIVE MILLION SO WE REMAIN A VERY SMALL COMPANY YEAH BUT HOW FAST DO YOU EXPECT TO GROW WELL I THINK WE CAN KEEP UP THAT GROWTH RATE FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS BECAUSE THERE'S A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLISHERS USING THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY TO GET TO PEOPLE QUICKER FOR EXAMPLE WE DO AN EVENING NEWS EACH NIGHT RECOUNTING WHAT HAPPENS ON THE STOCK MARKET IT HITS OUR SUBSCRIBERS' DESK AT SIX P. M. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL THE NEXT DAY SO SO THE QUICKNESS OF IT AND JUST THE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE YOU ALSO HAVE SOMETHING THAT I FIND INTRIGUING CALLED A FOOL RATIO WHICH IS TELL ME WHAT THAT IS SURE IT SIMPLY TAKES THE THE PERCENTAGE OF A COMPANY'S GROWTH RATE SO IF A COMPANY'S GROWING AT FORTY PERCENT A YEAR FOR EXAMPLE AND IT COMPARES IT TO THE PRICE TO EARNINGS RATIO OF THE COMPANY'S STOCK AND WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE TECHNICALITY OF IT SUFFICE TO SAY THAT COMPANIES TRADE THEIR THEIR PRICES PER SHARE TRADE OFF OF THE AMOUNT OF EARNINGS THAT THEY HAVE A MULTIPLE SURE SO IF YOUR COMPANY MAKES TWO DOLLARS A SHARE LAST YEAR AND YOUR STOCK'S AT FORTY YOU'RE TRADING AT TWENTY TIMES EARNINGS RIGHT NOW IF ON THE OTHER HAND YOUR YOUR GROWTH RATE IS FORTY PERCENT WE WOULD COMPARE THE TWENTY TO FORTY AND WE'D SAY YOUR GROWTH RATE IS MUCH QUICKER THAN THE MARKET IS VALUING YOU SO WE LOOK FOR THOSE SITUATIONS AND WHAT IT OFTEN FI HELPS US FIND ARE COMPANIES THAT ARE GROWING LIKE CRAZY LET'S SAY SOME INTERNET COMPANIES THAT ARE GROWING AT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OR MORE A YEAR AND WE'LL SEE OH LOOK THE MARKET HAS PUT A MULTIPLE A P. E. MULTIPLE OF ONLY ABOUT FIFTY ON IT NOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL THINK A FIFTY MULTIPLE ON EARNINGS IS REALLY REALLY HIGH BUT WHEN WE ON THE OTHER HAND SEE THAT THE COMPANY'S GROWING AT TRIPLE DIGIT GROWTH RATES WE TEND TO BUY THOSE SITUATIONS AND THAT'S OFTEN WHERE WE MAKE OUR MOST MONEY OKAY LYNCH LYNCH TALKED ABOUT THAT THE EARNINGS LINE ON THE GRAPH AND THE STOCK PRICE MOVE IN TANDEM OVER THE LONG HAUL SO IF EARN THE EARNINGS LINE ON THE GRAPH IS GOING UP TWENTY PERCENT A YEAR YOU CAN EXPECT THE STOCK TO GO UP TWENTY PERCENT A YEAR WHEN THAT STOCK PRICE FALLS BEHIND THE EARNINGS GROWTH YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET IN ON THE CHEAP WHEN WALL STREET EITHER HASN'T PAID ATTENTION TO THE COMPANY YEAH OR NEVER HEARD OF THE COMPANY AND AND HOW DO YOU BE SURE ABOUT THAT EARNINGS GROWTH YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN WORK AND YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY FOLLOW THE WORK THAT THE WALL STREET ANALYSTS HAVE DONE SO IN TERMS OF THEIR PROJECTION OR WHAT THE EARNINGS GROWTH WILL BE THAT'S RIGHT RIGHT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT FORWARD GROWTH NOT PAST GROWTH YEAH BECAUSE OF COURSE THE MARKET'S ALWAYS LOOKING FORWARD SO YOU NEED TO LOOK FORWARD TOO ALL RIGHT THE MOTLEY FOOL INVESTMENT GUIDE HOW THE FOOL HOW THE FOOL BEATS WALL STREET'S WISE MEN AND HOW YOU CAN TOO LOOK AT THIS COVER I MEAN THIS IS WE LOOK BETTER WITH THE HATS ON YEAH THERE YOU ARE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE THANKS A LOT FOR HAVING US THANK YOU CHARLIE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS WRITER MARSHALL FRADY HAS BEEN WORKING ON A BIOGRAPHY OF THE MAN HE REFERS TO AS A GREAT AMERICAN CHARACTER FRADY FIRST NOTICED WHAT HE CALLS JESSE JACKSON'S UNUSUAL VITALITY WHILE COVERING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE NINETEEN SIXTIES CURIOUSLY ENOUGH AS CLAMOROUSLY AS HE HAS SEEMED TO BE IN OUR PUBLIC LIFE JESSE IS AN UNDISCOVERED PROTAGONIST HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A FAR LARGER AND MORE INTERESTINGLY MIXED FIGURE THAN THE COMMON JOURNALISTIC TAKE ON HIM TONIGHT ON FRONTLINE WHAT DO I WANT AN INTIMATE PORTRAIT OF JESSE JACKSON I WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER HIS LIFELONG MISSION AND A REVEALING LOOK AT WHAT DRIVES HIM ON I WANT PEACE IN THE WORLD TONIGHT ON FRONTLINE THE PILGRIMAGE OF JESSE JACKSON JESSE JACKSON THINKS IN MOTION IS NOT AT HOME APPREHENDING THINGS FROM STILLNESS HE LIVES IN CONSTANT HEADLONG MOVEMENT AS IF SHOULD HE CEASE MOVING HE WOULD HIMSELF CEASE DISAPPEAR ONE NIGHT IN NINETEEN EIGHTY EIGHT WHILE FLYING BETWEEN CAMPAIGN RALLIES JACKSON SAID TO ME ABOUT OTHER POLITICIANS THEY ALL GO BACK HOME SOONER OR LATER I HAVE NO HOME TO GO BACK TO THE ROAD IS MY HOME WE WANT A RENEWED COMMITMENT TO INCLUSIVENESS AND TO FAIRNESS TO IN THE EIGHT YEARS SINCE JESSE JACKSON HAS BECOME LESS AND LESS CERTAIN WHERE THAT ROAD WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD HIM MANY REGARD HIM AS AN ANACHRONISM AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE MOOD SWEPT THE COUNTRY OTHER BLACK VOICES COLIN POWELL LOUIS FARRAKHAN CAPTURED THE NATION'S ATTENTION JACKSON SEEMS TO HAVE NO PLACE TO BE THAT HAS ONLY CAUSED HIM TO MOVE FASTER IT'S A TREACHEROUS JOURNEY BUT GOD WILL SEE US THROUGH WE CAN'T LET A DAY GO BY CAN'T LET A DAY GO BY LOVE YOU FOR YEARS THE PRESS HAS BEEN ASKING THESE QUESTIONS WHY DOES JESSE RUN WHAT DOES JESSE WANT TONIGHT WE POSE A DIFFERENT QUESTION WHY CAN'T JESSE STOP YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE HE CAME FROM AND WHERE HE'S BEEN HEADED I'M JUST A KID FROM GREENVILLE SOUTH CAROLINA HE ONCE SAID TRYING TO CHANGE THE WORLD SHE WAS ONE OF THE MOST ATTRACTIVE WOMEN YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE AT THE TIME WHEN THIS BOY WAS BORN SHE HAD IT ALL SHE HAD SOME KIND OF TALENT AS A SINGER MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW BUT SHE WOULD HAVE RUN MAHALIA JACKSON OFF OF THE STAGE SHE WAS A STAR AND THAT IS TRUE SHE WAS A STAR HELEN BURNS HAD A PLAN SHE WAS GOING TO MUSIC COLLEGE AFTER THAT MAYBE CONCERT STAGES IN CHICAGO EVEN BROADWAY BUT AT SIXTEEN AT THE HEIGHT OF HER PROMISE SHE FOUND HERSELF PREGNANT THE FATHER WAS A MAN IN HIS MID THIRTIES WHO LIVED NEXT DOOR WITH HIS WIFE AND THREE STEPCHILDREN I PRAYED AND YOU KNOW I SAID WELL HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN TO ME YOU KNOW AND THE CHILDREN WAS COMING FROM SCHOOL AND LIKE THAT AND THEY THEY SAW THE DOCTOR'S CAR THERE YOU KNOW AND THEY WAS LOOKING LIKE THEY WERE WONDERING WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND ALL THAT HELEN'S MOTHER TOLD HER DAUGHTER NOT TO CRY OUT DURING THE LABOR SHE DIDN'T WANT THE NEIGHBORS TO HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON SO JESSE LOUIS BURNS WAS BORN QUIETLY ON OCTOBER EIGHTH NINETEEN FORTY ONE INTO ONE OF THE POOREST CORNERS OF GREENVILLE'S BLACK COMMUNITY THEY WERE BARELY MAKING IT PARSIMONY REIGNED SUPREME THEY HAD NO MORE THAN I HAD AND THAT WAS NOTHING DURING THE SHORT PERIOD THAT HIS FATHER REMAINED NEXT DOOR JESS'S GRANDMOTHER MORE THAN ONCE SHOUTED THROUGH HIS WINDOW YOU BRING THIS BABY SOME MILK WE'RE HURTING OVER HERE DESPITE OCCASIONAL DISCRETE DONATIONS JESS'S NATURAL FATHER AVOIDED ANY OPEN CONTACT WITH HIS SON IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL JESSE WAS CALLED BASTARD BY NEIGHBORS AND TAUNTED BY HIS CLASSMATES YEARS LATER WHEN HE WOULD RECOUNT HIS BOYHOOD TO FRIENDS THE HURT WAS STILL RAW YES THIS WAS MY BACKGROUND BUT I'M REALLY ABOUT SOMETHING AND I'M GOING TO BE SOMETHING AND I'M GOING TO SHOW THOSE PEOPLE I WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH EARLY ON JESS'S NATURAL FATHER MOVED HIS WIFE AND NEW SONS ACROSS TOWN WHERE HE FLOURISHED AS A COTTON GRADER FOR A WHITE OWNED FIRM WELL NOAH WAS WE THOUGHT HE WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE TOP FIVE WELL TO DO BLACK MEN IN THIS GENERAL AREA AND WE ALL RESPECTED HIM NOAH NOAH ROBINSON SOMEHOW HIS FATHER DID NOT HAVE TO TOM THE FATHER DID NOT HAVE TO GROVEL THE FATHER HAD AN ABILITY TO RELATE TO WHITE PEOPLE AS MUCH AS ONE COULD BE IN THE SEGREGATED SOUTH AS AN EQUAL HE'S VERY APPRECIATIVE OF THAT IN HIS DAD AND VERY PROUD OF HIS FATHER AND VERY PROUD OF HIS FATHER'S SUCCESS I THINK THERE WERE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WAS AMBIVALENT BECAUSE MUCH OF THAT SUCCESS JESSE WAS NOT AN IMMEDIATE RECIPIENT OF BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIVE IN THE HOUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE FATHER'S LAST NAME HE WAS NOT ONE OF THE PRIVILEGED CHILDREN OF THE FATHER BUT HE STILL IDENTIFIED WITH HIS DAD ONCE NOAH ROBINSON FOUND NINE YEAR OLD JESSE STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOUSE STARING IN THE WINDOW BUT IN THE HOME WHERE HE LIVED WITH HIS GRANDMOTHER HIS MOTHER HER HUSBAND NOW CHARLES JACKSON A JANITOR AND THEIR SON TOGETHER CHARLES JUNIOR JESSE BURNS BEGAN TO GET THE SENSE THAT HE LIKE HIS NATURAL FATHER WAS SOMETHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY WHO MAINLY IMPARTED THIS BELIEF WAS HIS GRANDMOTHER MATHILDA BURNS COMMONLY CALLED TIBBY SHE WAS STRONG MUCH STRONGER THAN I AM I HAD TWO OF THREE MORE DAYS IN SCHOOL THAN SHE DID BUT WHAT SHE HAD YOU DON'T GET IT IN SCHOOL YOU SEE YOU KNOW YOU DON'T GET THAT IN SCHOOL TIBBY WOULD LEAVE EACH DAWN FOR WORK AS A DOMESTIC FOR GREENVILLE'S WHITE GENTRY AND THOUGH SHE NEVER LEARNED TO READ SHE WOULD MEMORIZE THE COVERS OF BOOKS JESSE NEEDED AND BORROW THEM FROM THE HOUSEHOLDS OF HER EMPLOYERS FOR GOD'S SAKES SHE USED TO TELL HIM PROMISE ME YOU WILL BE SOMEBODY SHE HAS SAID THINGS TO ME LIKE I'VE ALWAYS KNOWN HE WAS SPECIAL HE'S ALWAYS BEEN SPECIAL THE WAY SHE SAYS IT IS JESSE CAN SEE MOST OF ALL TIBBY AFFIRMED FOR HIM HIS OWN SENSE THAT HE POSSESSED OUTSIZED GIFTS FROM THAT CAME HIS OUTSIZED HUNGER TO MAKE HIMSELF INTO SOMEONE FAR GREATER THAN THE LOT HE HAD BEEN BORN INTO THAT WOULD BECOME HIS LIFETIME'S OBSESSION ALONG WITH AN EAGERNESS TO HAVE HIS SPECIAL PROMISE RECOGNIZED HE JUST DID THINGS THAT THE ORDINARY CHILD HIS AGE DID NOT DO HE LIKED ATTENTION AND THOSE BIG WORDS BROUGHT HIM ATTENTION ALWAYS GOT SOMETHING IN HIS MOUTH HE HAD THE GIFT OF GAB YOU KNOW HE HAD THAT AND THEN THE OTHER THING WAS HE WOULD BE A HEAD AND SHOULDER ABOVE THE OTHER KIDS COMING DOWN THE HALL SO HE DEMANDED RESPECT AND HE GOT IT BY HIGH SCHOOL JESSE HAD BECOME A YOUNG PRINCE WITHIN GREENVILLE'S SEGREGATED BLACK COMMUNITY HONOR STUDENT CLASS OFFICER ENERGETIC MEMBER OF HIS CHURCH AMONG HIS ELDERS HE CULTIVATED HIS IMAGE AS A MODEL CITIZEN HE WAS REGARDED BY MOTHERS GRANDMOTHERS AND AUNTS AS THE SAFEST ESCORT IN TOWN BUT IT WAS IN PERFORMANCES IN HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL GAMES THAT JESSE BURNS CAME INTO HIS FIRST TRUE PUBLIC MAGNIFICATION COACH J. D. MATHIS HAD CHOSEN AND GROOMED JESSE AS HIS QUARTERBACK THE TEAM LEADER WE WERE CALLING AUDIBLES WAY BACK THEN JESSE WOULD COME UP TO THE LINE OF COURSE WE TAUGHT HIM AND HE'D LOOK OVER THE DEFENSE AND SEE WHERE SOMEBODY WAS OUT OF PLACE HE CALLED THE PLAY TO HIT THE WEAK SPOT EVERY TRIP EVERY TRIP SO THAT WAS SOMETHING ELSE HE WAS REAL HEAVY HE COULD REMEMBER ANYTHING UP IN THAT HEAD NOW SOMETIMES EGO WOULD WANT TO YOU KNOW GET TO HIM AND I'M THE BIG MAN AND THIS SORT OF THING AND I GOT TO SHINE AND I CAN RUN THE SHOW I SAID UH_UH WE DON'T PLAY THAT I RUN THE SHOW. YOU DO WHAT I SAY TO DO OR YOU SIT OVER HERE NEAR ME OH BOY AS JESSE BURNS BEGAN TO ACQUIRE A MEASURE OF CELEBRITY IN GREENVILLE NOAH ROBINSON COULD NO LONGER RESIST CLAIMING HIM AS HIS OWN THIS IS MY SON YOU KNOW AND THEN HE WOULD DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR HIM SOME MONEY OR SOME CLOTHING OR A LITTLE JOB THIS SORT OF THING THIS IS MY BOY AS FOR HIS STEPFATHER CHARLES JACKSON SENIOR HE WOULD PASS AROUND JESS'S NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS GOING TO BE THE FIRST NEGRO QUARTERBACK IN THE N. F. L. HE'D SAY WHEN JESSE WAS A SOPHOMORE IN HIGH SCHOOL CHARLES JACKSON BROUGHT HIM SOME NEWS HE SAID I DO NOT WANT MY BOYS GOING TO SCHOOL WITH DIFFERENT NAMES SO JESSE WAS ADOPTED AND AS YOU KNOW HE TOOK THE NAME JACKSON IN HIS SENIOR YEAR JESSE JACKSON WON A FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIP TO A BIG TEN UNIVERSITY NO NEGRO BOY FROM GREENVILLE HAD EVER DONE THAT BUT THAT ACHIEVEMENT ALONE WAS NOT ENOUGH FOR JESSE HE WANTED EVERYBODY TO KNOW IT AT GRADUATION EXERCISES WHEN ALL THE STUDENTS WHO WON SCHOLARSHIPS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE RECOGNIZED JESSE WAS OVERLOOKED THEY HAD CALLED EVERYBODY'S NAME BUT HIS AND HE HAD WON A FOUR YEAR SCHOLARSHIP TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS IN CHAMPAIGN HE WAS SO HURT BECAUSE WHEN HE AFTER THEY MARCHED AND HE COME DOWN THERE YOU KNOW TO TALK WITH US AND ALL HE SAID WONDER WHY THEY DIDN'T CALL MY NAME AND YOU KNOW HE STARTED CRYING SOME THEN AND WE SAID OH YOU KNOW PEOPLE FORGET YOU KNOW THAT DOESN'T' HIS DAD SAID OH MAN YOU KNOW HOW EVERYTHING IS AND ALL THAT BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE CALLED MY NAME THAT I WON THAT AND THAT WAS THE HIGHEST AND HE WAS THE FIRST BUT A HARSHER HURT FOR JESSE HAD BEEN GROWING UP IN THE HUMILIATIONS OF GREENVILLE'S SEGREGATED SOCIETY AT ILLINOIS JESSE THOUGHT HE WOULD FINALLY BE ALLOWED TO ENTER THE MAIN STORY OF AMERICAN LIFE IN FACT IN THE FALL OF NINETEEN FIFTY NINE HE FOUND A MORE INSIDIOUS FORM OF RACISM ON THAT NORTHERN CAMPUS THE FEW BLACK ATHLETES WERE KEPT APART FROM THE REST OF THE STUDENTS WARNED TO STAY AWAY FROM WHITE CO EDS AND JESSE HIMSELF WAS TRAILED BY CALLS OF NIGGER AFTER A YEAR HE LEFT THE SCHOOL TELLING THE FOLKS IN GREENVILLE THAT THE COACHES WOULDN'T PLAY A BLACK QUARTERBACK THOUGH THE TRUTH WAS ON THE FIELD HE HAD BEEN SOMETHING LESS THAN OUTSTANDING HE RETREATED BACK SOUTH TO GREENSBORO NORTH CAROLINA AND A SMALL BLACK COLLEGE RECENTLY IN THE NATIONAL NEWS THE WINTER BEFORE STUDENTS AT NORTH CAROLINA A AND T. HAD BEGUN A SIT IN MOVEMENT THAT SPREAD ACROSS THE SOUTH BUT JESSE WASN'T PLANNING TO BECOME INVOLVED IN THOSE TURMOILS AT A AND T. HE WAS SOON A STAR ATHLETE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE CAMPUS SUNDAY SCHOOL NATIONAL OFFICER IN AN ELITE BLACK FRATERNITY HE CARRIED HIMSELF WITH A PROPRIETARY AIR REMINISCENT OF NOAH ROBINSON THE FIRST TIME HE SAW JACQUELINE BROWN HE YELLED TO HER HEY GIRL I'M GOING TO MARRY YOU AND I STARTED RUNNING FROM THAT MOMENT ON WHEN I DID SEE HIM HE WOULD ASK ME WHEN HAD I BEEN TO CHURCH AND HE WENT TO WORK IN THE OFFICE AT THE SCHOOL AND HE CAME BACK TO SHARE WITH ME MY GRADES TO TELL ME THAT I HAD TO DO BETTER AND I HAD TO BE IN MY CLASSES WHICH I JUST FELT HIM TO BE OVERBEARING YOU KNOW HE WAS JUST TOO MUCH JACKIE BROWN WAS A LIVELY MIX SHE DRESSED AND DANCED FLAMBOYANTLY RAN AROUND CAMPUS IN HER BARE FEET AND THOUGHT SHE MIGHT LIKE TO BE A NUN SHE HAD A WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD THAT COMFORTED JESSE HE CAME TO ME ONE DAY AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE COLOR PROBLEM IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY THE CLASS PROBLEM IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND HE SAID AND I'M A BASTARD AND I SAID AND I'M ONE TOO AND I THOUGHT MOST PEOPLE WERE ONE SOON AFTER JESSE AND JACKIE MARRIED ON NEW YEAR'S EVE NINETEEN SIXTY TWO THE SIT IN MOVEMENT WHICH HAD LAPSED INTO A LONG FLAT LULL BEGAN TO STIR BACK TO LIFE JESSE LIKE SO MANY OTHER COLLEGE STUDENTS WAS IN SEARCH OF SELF AND HE WAS NOT SURE AT WHAT POINT HE SHOULD COMMIT SO JESSE WAS QUITE LATE IN HIS COMMITMENT IN THE GREENSBORO MOVEMENT YOUR STAY AT SCHOOL WAS IN JEOPARDY YOU COULD BE EXPELLED AND THAT WOULD BE DISAPPOINTING FOR YOUR FAMILY THAT YOU WERE THROWN OUT OF SCHOOL FOR THIS SO THERE WERE A LOT OF DECISIONS TO BE MADE AND HE STOOD AND HE MADE THE RIGHT DECISIONS AT TWENTY ONE JACKSON WAS SUDDENLY AT THE CENTER OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN GREENSBORO MAY I BE ADMITTED NO SIREE YOU CANNOT BE ADMITTED WHY I AM NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU BECAUSE OF MY RACE I'M NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU BECAUSE OF MY RACE MOVE ON I'M NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU WHY WHY DON'T I QUALIFY I'M HUMAN I'M NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU I DON'T DISLIKE YOU BOYD I DON'T DISLIKE YOU THEN WHY WON'T YOU SERVE ME I AM NOT GOING TO SERVE DEMONSTRATORS TODAY TOMORROW OR ANY DAY BUT IF I CAME BACK BY MYSELF WOULD YOU SERVE ME NO YOU'RE A DEMONSTRATOR I WOULDN'T BE DEMONSTRATING YOU'RE A DEMONSTRATOR FOR JESSE JACKSON IT WAS LIKE A FEVER IT TOOK ME OUT OF MYSELF HE LATER DECLARED AS THE DEMONSTRATIONS MOUNTED CITY OFFICIALS FRETTED ABOUT MAINTAINING ORDER ONE EVENING IN EARLY JUNE WITH FREEDOM SONGS ECHOING OFF THE BUILDINGS OF DOWNTOWN GREENSBORO AND LOCAL REPORTERS CHECKING OVERHEAD FOR SNIPERS JACKSON LED FIVE HUNDRED MARCHERS TOWARD THE COUNTY COURT HOUSE JESSE IMPROVISED ON US AND WHEN THEY GOT THERE HE INSISTED THAT THEY SIMPLY LAY DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS INTERSECTION IN THE STREET THE POLICE WERE DESPERATE THE FOLLOWING DAY A WARRANT WAS ISSUED FOR JACKSON'S ARREST THIS MOVEMENT CANNOT BE STOPPED BY SENDING ME TO JAIL JACKSON TOLD A GATHERING AT THE CHURCH OF THE REDEEMER THAT MORNING THEN EMERGING BEFORE A SMALL COMPANY OF PRINT REPORTERS AND TELEVISION CAMERAS HE SURRENDERED WE WERE CHILDREN VERY YOUNG PEOPLE AND WE WERE DEALING WITH ADULTS WE WERE DEALING WITH ANGRY WHITE ADULTS AND IT WASN'T A VERY PLEASANT KIND OF EXPERIENCE JESSE WAS VERY SOMBER AS HE WAS BEING LED OFF TO JAIL AND HIS HEAD WAS DOWN I THINK IT WAS A VERY SERIOUS AND CONTEMPLATIVE MOMENT IN HIS LIFE THE FILM MADE THE LOCAL NEWS THAT DAY AND STUDENTS DISTRIBUTED TEN THOUSAND HANDBILLS YOUR GREAT LEADER HAS BEEN ARRESTED ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT JESSE WHEN I FIRST MET HIM WAS THE FACT THAT HE SAW HIMSELF IN PLACES THAT YOUNG NEGRO BOYS LIKE OURSELVES DIDN'T DIDN'T SEE I MEAN I SAW MYSELF MAYBE AS A COLLEGE PRESIDENT THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING IN THE WORLD JESSE SAW HIMSELF AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHICH WAS CRAZY BUT THAT'S THE KIND OF SENSE OF HIS OWN DESTINY THAT HE HAD ALMOST FROM THE VERY FIRST TIME I MET HIM LET FREEDOM RING FROM EVERY HILL AND MOLEHILL OF MISSISSIPPI FROM EVERY MOUNTAINSIDE LET FREEDOM RING JACKSON WAS DECIDING ON A CAREER JUST AS A BLACK PREACHER FROM ATLANTA WAS EMERGING AS A MORAL PROPHET TO THE WHOLE NATION HE WAS EXACTLY THE SORT OF FIGURE JACKSON MEANT TO MAKE HIMSELF INTO TO SPEED UP THAT DAY WHEN ALL OF GOD'S CHILDREN BLACK MEN AND WHITE MEN JEWS AND GENTILES PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS WILL BE ABLE TO JOIN HANDS AND WHILE KING WAS ACCEPTING THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE JACKSON WAS ENROLLING AT A SEMINARY IN CHICAGO BY MARCH OF SIXTY FIVE HE WAS A RESTLESS GRADUATE STUDENT HANKERING FOR THE OLD EXCITEMENTS OF THE MOVEMENT DISPERSE YOU ARE ORDERED TO DISPERSE GO HOME OR GO TO YOUR CHURCH THIS MARCH WILL NOT CONTINUE WATCHING THE LATE NEWS ON TELEVISION ONE NIGHT HE SAW SOMETHING THAT PULLED HIM BACK INTO THE CONFLICT THIS TIME FOR GOOD THE DAY AFTER BLOODY SUNDAY JACKSON ANSWERED MARTIN LUTHER KING'S CALL TO SUPPORTERS TO COME TO SELMA TO JOIN HIM IN THE CAMPAIGN FOR VOTING RIGHTS THERE ONLY THREE DAYS JACKSON MADE HIMSELF CONSPICUOUS AS IF IN A FRENZY OF AUDITIONING HE FINALLY GOT A MEETING WITH KING WHERE HE PLEADED FOR A STAFF POSITION WITH HIS SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE THOUGH HE CAME BACK TO CHICAGO WITHOUT A JOB JACKSON REGARDED THAT AS A MERE FORMALITY HE WAS OVERWHELMED HE WAS DEEPLY MOVED BY DOCTOR KING HE WANTED TO WORK WITH HIM HE HAD TALKED WITH HIM AND HE BEGAN IMMEDIATELY TO THINK ABOUT THINGS HE COULD DO TO HELP HIM KING HAD ALREADY BEEN CASTING ABOUT FOR A CITY IN THE NORTH WHERE HE COULD EXTEND HIS NON VIOLENT PROTESTS WHEN HE SETTLED ON CHICAGO HE NEEDED STAFF FAST AT TWENTY THREE JESSE JACKSON GAINED ENTRY TO KING'S STORMY INNER CIRCLE JESSE FOUGHT HIS WAY INTO SCLC FROM THE VERY BEGINNING THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE WARY OF HIM AND HIS AMBITION AND WARNED DOCTOR KING MARTIN ALWAYS SAID LOOK NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T CHALLENGE THE LAW OF THE LAND HE SAID YOU'VE GOT TO BE STRONG ENOUGH TO BE CREATIVELY MALADJUSTED WE NEED PEOPLE AROUND WHO CAN'T BE ADJUSTED PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO UPSET THINGS AMONG KING'S CLOSEST CONFIDANTS WERE ANDREW YOUNG AND RALPH ABERNATHY BOTH CALM AND DELIBERATE BUT KING'S OTHER LIEUTENANTS WERE HOT WIRED AND FIERCELY COMPETITIVE ALL OF THEM STRONG EGOS ALL OF THEM WITH HIS OWN STORY ALL OF THEM IN SOME WAY MAYBE SUBCONSCIOUSLY WISHING THAT HE WAS MARTIN LUTHER KING YOU KNOW MANY TIMES HE WOULD TRY TO RIVAL MARTIN LUTHER KING SO THE WHOLE IDEA OF WHO CAN GET THE AUDIENCE TO RALLY MOST YOU KNOW THAT KIND OF THING SO JUST DOCTOR KING SAW THAT IN JESSE YOU KNOW AND I THINK ONE OF HIS COMMENTS WAS YOU KNOW YOUR TIME WILL COME YOU KNOW JUST BE PATIENT IN HIS WORK IN HIS LIFE IN HIS FAMILY JACKSON KNEW ONLY ONE SPEED IT AMUSED KING I WAS HAVING CHILDREN SO FAST SO MARTIN LUTHER KING CAME OVER TO OUR PLACE AND HE SAW THAT I WAS PREGNANT AGAIN AND HE SAID JESSE BOY I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE YOU A RAISE SO YOU CAN BUY YOU A TELEVISION SO YOU CAN FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO WHILE PATIENCE WAS NOT ONE OF JACKSON'S VIRTUES IT WAS ONE OF KING'S WHEN JACKSON FOLLOWED KING AROUND FOR HOURS CARRYING ON A RUNNING PHILOSOPHICAL MONOLOGUE OF ASKING AND THEN ANSWERING HIS OWN QUESTIONS OTHER STAFFERS WATCHED IN EXASPERATION BUT KING SIMPLY LISTENED NODDING ALMOST IMPERCEPTIBLY WAITING TO GET A WORD ON ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JESSE WANTED AND NEEDED MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THE WORLD WAS THE SUPPORT AND APPROVAL OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JESSE'S QUITE OPEN AND HONEST ABOUT THIS THAT GROWING UP AS A CHILD SEEING YOUR FATHER IN ANOTHER FAMILY THERE'S ALMOST AN IRREPRESSIBLE NEED FOR THE SUPPORT FROM THE FATHER THAT YOU NEVER GOT AS A CHILD LET ME TALK I WAS HIT THREE TIMES WERE ANY OF YOUR OTHER PEOPLE HIT I DON'T KNOW KING COULD FEEL HIS HUNGER NOT JUST TO BE NOTICED BUT TO DO GREAT THINGS WHEN THE CHICAGO CAMPAIGN BEGAN IN EARNEST KING PUT JESSE OUT FRONT LEADING MARCHES FOR OPEN HOUSING WHEN THAT CAMPAIGN FAILED KING WITHDREW BACK TO THE SOUTH THAT LEFT JACKSON TO HIS OWN DEVICES IN CHICAGO RUNNING SCLC'S ECONOMIC CAMPAIGN OPERATION BREADBASKET HAS BEEN A UNIQUE AND QUITE A SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM BREADBASKET WAS A PROGRAM ADOPTED BY KING TO OPEN UP PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS TO BLACKS JACKSON REINVENTED IT WHOLE WHEN JESSE STARTED WITH US HE WAS A THEOLOGICAL STUDENT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WE TAUGHT HIM BUSINESS WE'D TAKE HIM INTO THE STORES AND SHOW HIM WE'VE FOUND IN MANY OF THE STORES THAT THE QUALITY OF FOOD FOR NEGROES IS VERY POOR SOMETIMES THE MEAT IS CONTAMINATED AND THE PRICES ARE EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABLY BECAUSE OF THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND BEING SO MANY NEGROES HEMMED INTO A GIVEN AREA IN ADDITION TO THAT NEGRO PRODUCTS ARE NOT DISPLAYED ON A NEGRO MARKET HE CALLED IN THE BLACK BUSINESSES AND HE BROUGHT IN THE BLACK BANKERS AND HE SAID THE BLACK BANKERS DON'T KNOW THE BLACK EXTERMINATORS THE EXTERMINATORS DON'T KNOW THE BLACK MANUFACTURERS THE BLACK MANUFACTURERS DON'T KNOW THE BLACK PROFESSIONALS THERE WE WERE MEETING WITH TWO HUNDRED THREE HUNDRED PEOPLE EVERY SATURDAY MORNING I THINK HE WAS PREACHING BUT THE TEXT WAS ECONOMIC AND HE FOUND PASSAGES IN THE BIBLE THAT SUPPORTED THE THEORY OF HELPING THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES IT WAS LIKE A CHURCH BLACK CONSCIOUSNESS YOU'RE CONSCIOUS OF BLACK PRODUCTS THAT'S ALL IT MEANS UNDER JACKSON BREADBASKET OFFERED ITS OWN BRAND OF SPIRITUAL COUNSEL TO THE WHITE COMPANIES DOING BUSINESS ON THE SOUTH SIDE THIS IS HOW MUCH MONEY WE SPEND WITH YOU THIS IS WHAT YOU DON'T DO AND THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING AND BECAUSE YOU'VE SINNED AGAINST THE GLORY OF GOD WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TELL OUR CONGREGATIONS AND OUR COMMUNITY NOT TO SPEND MONEY WITH YOU BEFORE LONG BREADBASKET WAS WINNING CONTRACTS FOR BLACK SANITATION FIRMS BLACK EXTERMINATORS THEY CONVINCED SOUTH SIDE BUSINESSES TO PLACE ADVERTISING IN BLACK MEDIA AND OPEN ACCOUNTS IN TWO NEW BLACK OWNED BANKS AND THEY NEGOTIATED SHELF SPACE FOR PRODUCTS MADE BY BLACK COMPANIES IN LESS THAN TWO YEARS BREADBASKET CREATED NEARLY THREE THOUSAND NEW JOBS FOR CHICAGO BLACKS AND ENLARGED THE ANNUAL INCOME FOR THE SOUTH SIDE RESIDENTS BY SOME TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS THE SUCCESSES OF MAKING THESE PEOPLE SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMEN MADE THEM WANT TO GIVE TO OPERATION BREADBASKET WANT THEM TO SEE JESSE AS LEADER THERE WERE PERSONS IN CHICAGO PARTICULARLY AMONG THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY WHO BEGAN TO SAY TO JESSE YOU'RE MAKING THE REVENUE YOU'RE GENERATING THE REVENUE MUCH OF IT FOR THE ORGANIZATION YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BEHOLDEN TO SCLC WELL I'VE FELT THAT THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN WE OUGHT TO IT OUGHT TO BE A CONTINUING MASSIVE LOBBY IN WHILE JACKSON WAS BUILDING HIS OWN DOMAIN IN CHICAGO KING WAS MOVING BEYOND SIMPLY RACIAL POLITICS HIS NEXT VENTURE WOULD IN FACT BE HIS MOST RADICAL THE POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN A CAMPAIGN TO LIFT ALL THE NATION'S POOR AND DISPOSSESSED TO FIND PEOPLE WITHOUT ADEQUATE FOOD TO EAT JACKSON AND OTHERS ON THE STAFF THOUGHT KING WAS UNFOCUSED TRYING FOR TOO MUCH TOO RADICAL WHEN KING AGREED TO GO TO MEMPHIS IN SUPPORT OF STRIKING GARBAGE WORKERS JACKSON REFUSED TO JOIN HIM KING AND ABERNATHY WENT ALONE TO MEMPHIS TO LEAD A MARCH FOR THE FIRST TIME DEMONSTRATORS PERSONALLY LED BY KING HAD TURNED VIOLENT I MEAN HE WAS JUST SHATTERED BECAUSE HE'D MISCALCULATED AND HE FELT AS THOUGH HE WAS RESPONSIBLE SO THE BURDEN OF GUILT WEIGHED ON HIM I MEAN HE SPENT ALMOST FROM MONDAY TO FRIDAY ALONE AND HE SAW ALMOST NOBODY KING FINALLY CALLED JACKSON AND THE STAFF TO ATLANTA FOR A MEETING AT HIS EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH HE SAID A NUMBER OF THINGS ONE HE SAID THAT WE LET HIM DOWN AND HE WAS VERY CRITICAL OF US OF EACH WANTING TO FOLLOW HIS OWN AGENDA RATHER THAN BEING SUPPORTIVE OF HIM IN THIS EFFORT AS WE HAD IN OTHER EFFORTS JACKSON AND OTHER AIDES AGREED TO GO TO MEMPHIS TO HELP KING PREPARE FOR A SECOND MARCH TWO DAYS LATER JACKSON CALLED JACKIE WITH NEWS THAT WOULD MARK THE REST OF HIS LIFE HE CALLED ME LATE ONE EVENING AND HE SAID JACKIE DOCTOR KING HAS BEEN SHOT. AND HE SAID AND I WANT TO TELL YOU BEFORE YOU GET THE NEWS ON THE TELEVISION BUT HE IS DEAD I SAID WHAT DO WE DO NOW HE SAID I DON'T KNOW BUT IT'S A LOT GOING ON DOWN HERE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT THEY DON'T WANT US TO SPEAK TO THE THE SCLC PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TALK TO THE PRESS UNTIL THEY'VE MET AND TRIED TO RESTRUCTURE THE GROUP AND REORGANIZE IT AND THEN HE STOPPED AGAIN AND HE SAID JACKIE DOCTOR KING IS DEAD I THINK HE KEPT SAYING IT TO MAKE HIMSELF UNDERSTAND IT JACKSON HAD BEEN STANDING TEN FEET BELOW KING IN THE COURTYARD OF THE LORRAINE MOTEL WHEN THE SHOT WAS FIRED AFTER THE INITIAL CONFUSION JACKSON HAD MADE HIS WAY UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR BALCONY WHERE KING LAY DYING AFTER THEY REMOVED HIS BODY RALPH ABERNATHY GOT A JAR AND STARTED SCRAPING UP THE BLOOD AND SAID YOU KNOW AND CRYING IT WAS MARTIN'S PRECIOUS BLOOD THIS BLOOD WAS SHED FOR US IT WAS' YOU KNOW IT WAS WEIRD BUT PEOPLE FREAKED OUT AND DID STRANGE THINGS JESSE PUT HIS HANDS IN THE BLOOD AND WIPED IT ON THE FRONT OF HIS SHIRT SEE AND IT WAS IT WAS I MEAN WHAT DO YOU DO IN A MOMENT LIKE THAT ABERNATHY YOUNG AND OTHERS WENT TO THE HOSPITAL JESSE WAS LEFT BEHIND AT THE LORRAINE WHERE THE MEDIA BEGAN TO SWARM I NEED TO SEE DOCTOR KING CAN I GET A RIDE TO SEE DOCTOR KING SAY REVEREND CAN YOU EXCUSE US JACK WILL YOU TELL ME JUST WHAT HAPPENED PLEASE CAN IT WAIT A LITTLE WHILE WOULD YOU TELL ME JUST WHAT HAPPENED SO CAN GET THIS FILM IN PLEASE JESSE ALWAYS SENSES THE MOMENT AND IT WAS AN EPOCHAL MOMENT AND HE WAS THERE THE BLACK PEOPLE'S LEADER OUR MOSES THE ONCE IN A FOUR HUNDRED OR FIVE HUNDRED YEAR LEADER HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM US BY HATRED AND BITTERNESS EVEN AS I STAND AT THIS HOUR I CANNOT EVEN ALLOW HATE TO ENTER MY HEART AT THIS TIME FOR IT WAS SICKNESS NOT MEANNESS THAT KILLED HIM PEOPLE WERE SOME WERE IN PANDEMONIUM SOME WERE IN SHOCK SOME WERE CRYING HOLLERING OH GOD AND I IMMEDIATELY STARTED RUNNING UPSTAIRS TO WHERE HE WAS AND I CAUGHT HIS HEAD AND I TRIED TO FEEL HIS HEAD AND I ASKED HIM I SAID DOCTOR KING DO YOU HEAR ME DOCTOR KING DO YOU HEAR ME AND HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING AND I TRIED TO HOLD HIS HEAD AND BY THAT TIME WHILE THE REST OF THE KING'S AIDES HUDDLED THROUGH THE NIGHT AT THE MOTEL JACKSON RUSHED BACK TO CHICAGO WHERE RAGE WAS ALREADY SWEEPING THE CITY WHEN WE WERE GOING TO GET IN THE CAR IT WAS REALLY A SILENCE YOU KNOW IT WAS WHO'S GOING TO SPEAK FIRST YOU KNOW BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE THE WORDS TO SAY AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY AND WHEN HE CAME HOME HE GOT IN THE BED WITH HIS SHOES ON AND THE SHIRT AND HE JUST LAID IN THE BED IN PUBLIC JACKSON HAD AN ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT DEMEANOR IT WAS AS IF HE COULD SEE HIS DESTINY OPENING UP BEFORE HIM AT LAST AND HE RUSHED TOWARD IT FOURTEEN HOURS AFTER THE SHOOTING HE APPEARED ON THE TODAY SHOW LATER THAT DAY WHILE LISTENING TO THE SOLEMN TRIBUTES AT THE CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL'S MEMORIAL SERVICE JACKSON TAPPED MAYOR DALEY ON THE SHOULDER AND ASKED TO SPEAK POINTING TO HIS SHIRT JACKSON SAID THIS BLOOD IS ON THE CHEST AND HANDS OF THOSE WHO WOULD NOT HAVE WELCOMED KING HERE YESTERDAY THEN HE CALLED FOR CALM IN THE CITY AN END TO THE RIOTING MEANWHILE AT JACKSON'S DIRECTIVE A MOVEMENT PUBLICIST WAS BOOKING INTERVIEWS ON CHICAGO T. V. SHOWS THEY WERE FALLING ALL OVER THEMSELVES TO GET JESSE AND PARTICULARLY AS THE WORD GOT OUT LATER THAT MORNING THAT JESSE HAD RETURNED TO CHICAGO AND WAS WEARING CLOTHES STAINED WITH DOCTOR KING'S BLOOD AND WAS APPEARING BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL AND SO FORTH DON ROSE ACCOMPANIED JACKSON TO THE TAPINGS THE TWO MEN RIDING FROM STUDIO TO STUDIO IN THE BACK SEAT OF A CAR HE WAS THINKING VERY CLEARLY THINKING AHEAD THINKING OF FRANKLY HIS OWN CAREER THE FUTURE OF THE MOVEMENT AND HIS ROLE WITHIN IT AND WE WERE BOTH REINFORCING EACH OTHER WITH THE VIEW THAT JESSE WAS A VERY LOGICAL SUCCESSOR TO DOCTOR KING WHEN I SEE YOU HERE SO MUCH ALIVE ASKING WHAT TO DO WHERE TO TURN I AM AVAILABLE NOW I AM MORE CONVINCED THAN EVER THAT EVERY TIME THAT THERE IS A CRUCIFIXION IN RIGHT AND RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT INEVITABLY AND UNIVERSALLY THERE IS A RESURRECTION KING AIDES LONG RESENTFUL OF JACKSON SAW HIS BEHAVIOR AS BRAZEN OPPORTUNISM THEY WERE ALREADY ANGRY THAT HE HAD SPOKEN TO THE PRESS IN THE HOURS AFTER THE ASSASSINATION AND FURIOUS THAT HE HAD SO DRAMATICALLY INFLATED HIS OWN PART IN THE STORY OF KING'S FINAL MOMENTS A LOT OF THOSE RESENTMENTS THAT HAD BEEN BURIED IN THE MOVEMENT AND THAT ALLOWED US TO WORK ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER BUT NEVER EXPRESSED GOT EXPRESSED IN THE EMOTION AND FRUSTRATION OF MARTIN'S ASSASSINATION SOME BEGAN RETAILING THE STORY OF THE LAST MEETING AT EBENEZER JUST DAYS BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION AS THEIR STORY WENT KING HAD EXPLODED AT JACKSON TOLD HIM TO GO DO HIS OWN THING AND LEAVE HIM ALONE ANDY YOUNG WAS STANDING NEXT TO JACKSON WHEN THE EXCHANGE TOOK PLACE HE REMEMBERS KING'S MESSAGE TO JESSE WAS MUCH DEEPER THAN A SIMPLE REBUKE IT WAS SHOCKING IN THE SENSE THAT HE NEVER TALKED TO ANYBODY LIKE THAT AND THE THING THAT HAPPENED WAS THAT JESSE TRIED TO ENCOURAGE HIM YOU KNOW DON'T WORRY EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT AND HE TURNED AND SAID EVERYTHING IS NOT GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT AND HE SAW THE PROBLEMS THAT WE WERE GOING INTO NOT AS HIS PROBLEM NOT AS JESSE'S PERSONAL PROBLEM OR MY PERSONAL PROBLEM BUT AMERICA'S PROBLEM BUT HE FELT THAT THE ONLY THING THAT COULD SAVE US WAS US WORKING TOGETHER TO TRY TO REALLY AND TRULY REDEEM THE SOUL OF AMERICA THAT ANGRY CHALLENGE WAS THE LAST SUBSTANTIVE THING MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID TO JESSE JACKSON NO IT HE'S NEVER FORGOTTEN IT I THINK OUR TIME STOPPED AND IT BEGAN IT ENDED IN MEMPHIS AND IT BEGAN IN MEMPHIS BECAUSE WE WERE TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON DOCTOR KING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS WAS OUR THE MOVEMENT WAS OUR RESPONSIBILITY THE CHILDREN BELONGED NOW TO REVEREND JACKSON AND IT WAS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO FEED THEM IN THE WEEKS AFTER KING'S ASSASSINATION PEOPLE FLOCKED TO BREADBASKET CAME IN OFF THE STREET TO VOLUNTEER IT WAS LIKE IT GREW OVERNIGHT JESSE WAS VERY YOUNG VERY BRIGHT VERY ARTICULATE WE HAD A NEW MINISTER IN TOWN AND HE WAS NOT ONLY A NEW MINISTER IN TOWN BUT OFFERED A NEW MINISTRY SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT NEGROES ARE ALWAYS WORRYING ABOUT IT THEY USED TO CALL ME EGOTISTICAL A LONG TIME AGO WELL I STILL AM NEGROES' PROBLEM IS THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THEIR EGOS THAT'S WHY OUR CHURCHES END UP HAVING A WHITE SERVICE BECAUSE OUR PREACHER IS NOT ARROGANT ENOUGH TO TAKE GOD'S WORD SO HE HAVE TO GO AND GET SOME WHITE FELLOW'S AGENDA AND PUT IT IN HIS CHURCH OUR EGOS OUR EGOS AIN'T IN THE RIGHT PLACE YOU'VE GOT TO GET UP AND SAY I KNOW HOW THE LORD TOLD ME TO STRUCTURE MY SERVICES AND TOGETHER WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO AND YOU ALL KNOW WHEN I TELL YOU ALL I CAN PREACH I AIN'T LYING JESSE JACKSON WAS TWENTY SIX YEARS OLD AND IT WAS HIS TIME HE HAD GATHERED AROUND HIM A PERSONAL FOLLOWING OF MINISTERS BUSINESSES SEMINARIANS SECRETARIES AND HOUSEWIVES WE WERE A HUGE FAMILY EVERYBODY BELONGED TO EVERYBODY ELSE WE WERE WE TRULY LOVED AND RESPECTED ONE ANOTHER IT WAS NOT FAMILY HERE AND HIM OUT HERE HE WAS IN THE CENTER OF IT OFTENTIME ON SATURDAYS WE WOULD GO WE WOULD LEAVE THE MEETING AND MAYBE A DOZEN OF US WOULD GO TO THE HOUSE AND ENJOY THE WONDERFUL COOKING OF HIS GRANDMOTHER TIBBY AND ENJOY THE KIDS RUNNING AROUND AND BEING PLAYFUL AND ACTIVE WITH THEM MY CHILDREN WERE NEVER TOLD THAT THEY HAD TO GO TO BED AT A CERTAIN HOUR THEY JUST MINGLED AND SAT UNDER THE TABLE AND BIT PEOPLE ON THE FOOT AND LEG SO MY MOTHER CALLED THEM PRODUCTS OF THE MOVEMENT SHE SAID OH THESE CHILDREN THEY DON'T GO TO BED THEY JUST PASS OUT. AND SHE ALSO SAID THIS IS THE DARNEDEST HOUSE I'VE EVER BEEN IN SHE SAID IT NEVER IT NEVER SHUTS DOWN IT JUST THE PEOPLE JUST KEEP CHANGING AMONG HIS ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS WERE TWO EARNEST YOUNG WHITE MINISTERS HE HAD MET AT THE SEMINARY GARRY MASSONI AND DAVID WALLACE WALLACE HAD BEEN WORKING WITH JESSE SINCE THE TWO OF THEM DROVE TOGETHER FROM SELMA IN NINETEEN SIXTY FIVE HE WAS JESSE'S FIRST TRULY CLOSE WHITE FRIEND JESSE TOOK DAVID HOME TO VISIT HIS FAMILY IN GREENVILLE WHERE THE TWO OF THEM LIKE LITTLE BOYS WOULD SOMETIMES CRAWL INTO THE BED WITH JESSE'S GRANDMOTHER IT WAS LIKE TWO APPLES OFF THE SAME TREE THEY THEY SEEMED TO THINK ALIKE ABOUT ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WERE TAKING PLACE IN THE WORLD IT WAS A PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP IT WAS A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP THEY WERE BROTHERS THEY WERE JOINED THEY WERE JOINED AT THE HIP IT WAS LIKE THEIR MISSION WAS THE SAME MISSION BUT NUMERICALLY THERE ARE MORE POOR WHITES IN AMERICA THAN POOR BLACKS THERE AN INDIAN AMERICANS EVEN POORER BLACK MEN OF INTEGRITY CANNOT MAKE A DEAL WITH A POLITICIAN AND LEAVE OUT THE POOR OF THE NATION ALL GOD'S CHILDREN JACKSON WAS NOW EXPANDING HIS MINISTRY CAMPAIGNING FOR BLACK CANDIDATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY PROTESTING POLICE BRUTALITY HUNGER POVERTY THE VIETNAM WAR GOD BROKE INTO MY ROOM LAST NIGHT HE'D TELL A STAFFER THAT MEANT HE HAD A NEW IDEA AND THEY HAD ANOTHER JOB FEW OF HIS LATE NIGHT INSPIRATIONS COULD HOLD UNTIL MORNING I HAVE HAD PHONE CALLS FROM JESSE AT EVERY CONCEIVABLE HOUR OF THE DAY OR NIGHT AND A FEW HOURS THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN INVENTED YET YEAH HE CALLS WHENEVER HE WHENEVER THE SPIRIT MOVES HIM THE TWO O'CLOCK O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OR THE FOUR O'CLOCK O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING CALL FROM JESSE JACKSON DOES NOT BEGIN AS EVERY OTHER ANY OTHER TWO O'CLOCK O'CLOCK OR FOUR O'CLOCK O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING WHERE IT SAYS YOU KNOW I'M SORRY TO WAKE YOU OR WERE YOU ASLEEP IT JUST HE JUST STARTS ROLLING HE'S ROLLING AND YOU SHOULD BE ROLLING TOO HE'S OF THE MOMENT AND HE'S OF THE OCCASION IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT HE WANTED TO DO THE ATTITUDE WAS PROJECT FIRST MONEY LATER THE TREASURER OF BREADBASKET WAS A TRIM AND BRISK INSURANCE EXECUTIVE WITH WHOM DOCTOR KING HAD ENTRUSTED SCLC'S MONEY PRESENTED WITH JACKSON'S EXPENSE REPORTS CIRILO MCSWEEN WAS HEARD TO SAY CALL ME A HEARSE I THINK I'M GOING TO DIE CIRILO USED TO SAY REVEREND JACKSON YOU CAN'T FLY THERE YOU CAN'T TAKE BUT TWO PEOPLE. JESSE SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T TAKE BUT TWO WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND THEN HE AND JESSE WOULD HAVE IT JESSE AIN'T BUT ONE GOING PICK WHICH ONE. AND JESSE WOULD EXPLAIN NO I GOT TO HAVE WELL DAVID'S GOT TO GO YOU KNOW I RICHARD'S GOT TO GO BEN'S GOT TO GO JESSE'D GET ON THE PHONE AND CALL UP WHEREVER HE WAS GOING HE'D SAY I'M BRINGING THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE EXTRA I NEED YOU TO PICK UP THE TAB AND PEOPLE WOULD PICK UP THE TAB ON THURSDAY IF HE FOUND THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE A SHORTFALL ON CASH HE'D MAKE A CALL TO SOMEBODY AND SAY I GOT TO HAVE SOME MONEY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THE PAYROLL HERE AND A LOT OF TIMES ON FRIDAY I'D LEAVE TOWN AND GO SOMEWHERE AND PICK UP A CHECK COME BACK GIVE IT TO LUCILLE LUCILLE WOULD CALL A BANK THAT WASN'T OPEN ON SATURDAY AND THEY'D CASH THE CHECK AND WE'D MAKE PAYROLL MOST SATURDAYS ONE OF THE PLACES JACKSON WOULD GO PROSPECTING FOR MONEY WAS HUGH HEFNER'S PLAYBOY MANSION IN DOWNTOWN CHICAGO SAINT CLAIR AND I WOULD OFTTIMES GO DOWN AND PLAY PINBALL WHILE JESSE AND HEFNER TALKED COME OUT SMILING AND I WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO MEMPHIS SO I ASSUMED HE CAME OUT WITH A CHECK WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO MEMPHIS OR NEW YORK OR LOS ANGELES OR SOMETHING IN NINETEEN SIXTY NINE HEFNER FEATURED JACKSON IN HIS MAGAZINE JACKSON TOLD HEFNER'S INTERVIEWER THAT BLACKS WOULD BE AS NON VIOLENT AS THEY COULD BE AND AS VIOLENT AS THEY HAD TO BE THAT AMERICA'S LAST CHANCE FOR REDEMPTION MIGHT HAVE DIED WITH KING HE WAS TRYING TO PROVOKE TO WAKE THE NATION FROM ITS DAZE FOLLOWING THE KILLINGS OF ROBERT KENNEDY AND MARTIN LUTHER KING HIS REAL STRUGGLE THROUGHOUT THE SEVENTIES WOULD BE TO MAKE HIMSELF INTO A COMPARABLY DRAMATIC MORAL FIGURE IN A TIME EMPTY OF GREAT MORAL DRAMA ABSENT THAT JACKSON HAD ONLY ONE MIRROR IN WHICH TO MEASURE HIMSELF I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WITH HIM WHERE JESSE WOULD HAVE EIGHT TEN MORNING NEWSPAPERS AND HE WOULD RIFLE THROUGH THE PAPERS TO SEE IF HE WAS IN THEM WE WOULD LOOK AT THE EVENING NEWS TO SEE WHAT GOT ON AND ALL THE REST JACKSON BEGAN TELLING ASSOCIATES WE NEED TO SWING SOMEBODY THROUGH AS A NATIONAL SPOKESMAN OTHERS WHO HAD BEEN OUT FRONT FOR BREADBASKET BEGAN TO RECEDE AS THE TIME WENT ON OUR TIME TO DO THAT BECAME LESS AND LESS AND LESS JESSE'S TIME BECAME MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND WE HAD TO BE SURE THAT HE HAD ALL THE RADIO TIME SO THAT HIS PERSONA VERY MUCH GREW IT ZOOMED INTO THE STRATOSPHERE I AM I AM SOMEBODY SOMEBODY I MAY BE UNEDUCATED I MAY BE UNEDUCATED BUT I AM BUT I AM SOMEBODY SOMEBODY I MAY HAVE BEEN IN JAIL I MAY HAVE BEEN IN JAIL BUT I AM I AM SOMEBODY SOMEBODY I AM BLACK I AM BLACK I AM BEAUTIFUL I AM BEAUTIFUL I'M GOD'S CHILD THE ENTERTAINERS BEGAN TO COME BILL COSBY ROBERT CULP FOR EXAMPLE BEGAN TO COME WHOEVER WAS IN TOWN BEGAN TO COME TO THOSE MEETINGS MUHAMMAD ALI THE WORLD CHAMPION HE BECAME A CELEBRITY AMONG CELEBRITIES HE WAS A CELEBRITY WITH THEM THEY WERE CELEBRITIES TOGETHER WE TOOK CARE OF WHATEVER BILLS HE HAD IF HE WANTED SOMETHING SPECIFIC HE WOULD CALL ONE OF US ON THE PHONE AND SAY THAT HE NEEDED THIS OR HE NEEDED THAT AND OF COURSE I COULD ALWAYS TALK TO NOW THE TWENTY FIVE OR FIFTY OTHER FRIENDS AND GET A FEW DOLLARS THIS FOR THIS AND FOR THAT AND THEN LATER OF COURSE WE BOUGHT HIM A HOME AND REFURBISHED IT JACKSON'S BENEFACTORS SENT HIS CHILDREN TO PRIVATE SCHOOL THEY LEASED HIM EXPENSIVE CARS PROVIDED HIM A WARDROBE HE WAS A HUMAN BILLBOARD PROMOTER OF PRODUCT AND STYLE THE SCLC BOARD DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF HIM BOARD MEMBERS BEGAN TO PLAY ON ABERNATHY'S FEAR THAT JACKSON WAS OUT TO TAKE HIS PLACE AS HEAD OF THE ORGANIZATION THERE'S A GROUP AROUND TOWN CALLED BREADBASKET IF BLACK BUSINESSES CAN NOW GET ON THE SHELVES OF CHAIN STORES IT'S A GROUP AROUND TOWN IF BLACK FOLK ARE NOW BUILDING CHAIN STORES AND BLACK FOLK ARE NOW BUILDING SCHOOLS IN CHICAGO THERE'S A GROUP AROUND TOWN ABERNATHY STILL NEEDED JACKSON BREADBASKET WAS THE ONE PROGRAM RAISING SIGNIFICANT MONEY FOR SCLC WHEN ABERNATHY THOUGHT JACKSON WAS WITHHOLDING SOME OF THAT MONEY FROM ATLANTA HE SUSPENDED HIM I RECALL REVEREND JACKSON COMING BY SAYING THAT HE COULDN'T AFFORD TO ALLOW HIM TO PUT HIM ON SUSPENSION AND I SAID REVEREND JACKSON YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE SASSED REVEREND ABERNATHY AND REVEREND ABERNATHY SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT YOU ON SUSPENSION YOU WERE BOTH RIGHT I THINK THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO IS TO START YOUR OWN ORGANIZATION SOMEBODY MAY SAY THEY WAS ON THE RADIO THIS MORNING MAKING A LOT OF NOISE WHO ARE THEY WE'RE JUST PEOPLE UNITED TO SAVE HUMANITY WHEN THE WELFARE CLIENTS LOOK UP AND SEE US COMING IN THE PROJECTS SOMEBODY GOING TO SAY WHO ARE THEY THEY'RE JUST PEOPLE UNITED TO SAVE HUMANITY WHEN THE HUNGRY LOOK UP AND SEE US COMING TRYING TO GIVE THEM SKILLS SOMEBODY MIGHT SAY WHO ARE THEY WE'RE JUST PEOPLE UNITED TO SAVE HUMANITY SOME OF HIS OLD FRIENDS LOOKED A LITTLE ASKANCE AT THE NAME OF HIS NEW ORGANIZATION THEY'D SUGGESTED THE LESS PRESUMPTUOUS PEOPLE UNITED TO SERVE HUMANITY BUT JACKSON WAS BEYOND THAT NOW WHEN THE UNORGANIZED WORKERS START GETTING THEIR MONEY SOMEBODY SAY WHERE'D IT COME FROM PEOPLE UNITED TO SAVE HUMANITY HE'D WALK OUT ON THE STAGE AND SOMETIMES HE WOULD HIS STATURE AND HIS APPEARANCE I'M GOD I AM THE MAN BECAUSE WHEN HE WOULD WALK OUT THE WHOLE AUDIENCE OF TWO THOUSAND OR THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE WOULD STAND UP AND APPLAUD AND APPLAUD WOMEN WOULD WALK UP TO ME AND SAY OH HE JUST THRILLED ME TODAY HE JUST DID THIS AND DID THAT I SAID GO HOME TAKE A SHOWER YOU'LL BE ALL RIGHT RUMORS DID BECOME RAMPANT OF HIS ROMANTIC BUCCANEERING IT WAS ALL PART OF THE TEMPTATIONS OF HIS EXPANDING CELEBRITY WE KNEW AND WE WERE HEARING AND WE WERE SEEING SOME THINGS THAT COULD DESTROY HIM AND WE DIDN'T COME DIRECTLY AND TELL HIM NOT TO DO IT BUT WE WOULD TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN IN THE EVENT IT SHOULD HAPPEN JESSE WAS AN INSTRUMENT OF THE MOVEMENT FOR CHANGE I LOVED AND HIM AND LOVE HIM NOW BUT THE MOVEMENT AND THE PERSON FOR ME ARE DIFFERENT FOR SOME PEOPLE AND IN JESSE'S OWN MIND THE MOVEMENT AND HIS PERSON BECAME ONE AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE SPACE BETWEEN JESSE AND DAVID WIDENED AS THE ORGANIZATION BECAME AN ORGANIZATION NO LONGER WAS THE SAME CONTACT THERE I NO LONGER HAD IT THERE WERE BUFFERS DAVID IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR HIM THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE COULD GO EVERYPLACE TOGETHER AND DURING THE SEVENTIES WE COULD NO LONGER GO EVERYPLACE TOGETHER BLACK PEOPLE NEEDED THAT TIME TO DISCOVER THEMSELVES THEY NEEDED THAT TIME TO BECOME INDEPENDENT TO FEEL THAT THEY WERE SOMEBODY THEY COULD DO IT THEMSELVES AND THAT CAUSED A CERTAIN SEPARATION IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BUT IT WAS A GROWING PROCESS FOR ALL OF US BY NINETEEN SEVENTY THREE GARRY MASSONI WAS GONE CALVIN MORRIS WAS GONE DAVID WALLACE WHO WAS BURNED OUT HURT AND ESTRANGED FROM HIS FRIEND FINALLY LEFT AFTER EIGHT YEARS OF DAILY SERVICE JACKSON OFFERED HIM A SEVERANCE CHECK OF NINE DOLLARS AFTER RICHARD THOMAS QUIT JESSE DIDN'T SPEAK TO HIM FOR YEARS. WHENEVER SOMEBODY LEFT JACKSON REGARDED IT AS A BETRAYAL OF THE MOVEMENT AND OF HIMSELF YEAH HE WAS HE WAS HE WAS HURT FEELING THAT SOME PEOPLE LEFT HIM THEY ABANDONED HIM I THINK A PERSONAL YOU LET ME DOWN I DIDN'T LEAVE IT YOU LEFT ME IT'S ALMOST LIKE A ROCK STAR WOULD BE WHERE YOU KNOW HERE'S THIS FAMOUS PERSON ALWAYS RECOGNIZED ALWAYS BEING APPROACHED BUT I THINK HE HAS A REAL FEELING THAT NO ONE REALLY KNOWS HIM AND IN THAT SENSE I MEAN HE IS KIND OF LONELY I THINK HIS MIND IS KIND OF ALWAYS GOING AND THAT YOU KNOW THAT HE IS KIND OF ALONE IN THAT PROCESS PARTICULARLY WHEN HE'S DEALING WITH AN ISSUE THAT NO ONE ELSE EMBRACES MY HUSBAND SHARES WITH ME THE MOST SERIOUS THINGS WHILE HE'S PUTTING HIS SOCKS ON WE HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AND IT WASN'T UNTIL HE WAS PUTTING ON HIS SOCKS THAT I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO DO IT HE SAID JACKIE I'M GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND I SAID HOT DOG THE WAY TO GO JESSE WE'RE GOING TO DO IT AND SO WE DID OUR LITTLE PEP RALLY YOU KNOW YES I AM SOMEBODY YES YOU KNOW NEVER SURRENDER SO KEEP HOPE ALIVE WE DO THAT AROUND THE HOUSE JACKSON FOUND HIMSELF ESSENTIALLY ALONE IN THIS ENTERPRISE IN NINETEEN EIGHTY FOUR HE'D EMBARKED ON TWO FIRSTS THE FIRST BLACK MAN TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT AND MORE SIGNIFICANT THE FIRST MAN TO RUN WITH A MESSAGE ANIMATED ALMOST ENTIRELY BY MARTIN LUTHER KING AND THE GOSPELS THE GREAT RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE HAVE TODAY IS TO PUT THE POOR AND THE NEAR POOR BACK ON FRONT OF THE AMERICAN AGENDA THE PROBLEM WAS A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IN AMERICA IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE MESSAGE AS THE MESSENGER NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE COUNTRY'S FUTURE AS A MAN'S PAST AND OVER THE YEARS JACKSON HAD INCITED PLENTY OF MISTRUST AND DISLIKE THE CRITICISMS WERE THAT HE HAD BLACKMAILED AMERICAN BUSINESSES SQUANDERED NEARLY A MILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL GRANTS THAT HE WAS ALL CHARISMA AND NO FOLLOW THROUGH BUT THE CRITICISM THAT HIT HIM MOST DEEPLY WAS THAT HE HAD BEEN TOO MUCH OUT FOR HIMSELF THAT HE HAD DROPPED KING'S MISSION MANY SAW THIS CAMPAIGN AS JUST ANOTHER IN A LINE OF FLAGRANT SELF AGGRANDIZEMENTS THIS IS A DANGEROUS MISSION AND YET IT'S A NECESSARY MISSION AS JACKSON SAW IT THE CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENCY WAS THE BOLDEST WAY TO CARRY OUT KING'S LAST CHALLENGE JESSE JACKSON MEANT TO BRIDGE THE RACIAL DIVIDE IN THE COUNTRY HE MEANT TO REDEEM AMERICA AND THEREBY REDEEM AND FULFILL HIMSELF NEVER TURN BACK OUT TIME HAS COME OUR TIME HAS COME OUR TIME HAS COME IT JUST OUTRAGED ALL KINDS OF WHITE PEOPLE A BLACK MAN DECIDING HE'S GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT HE DOESN'T KNOW HIS PLACE PEOPLE SAID A BLACK GUY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT YEAH IT REMINDED ME JUST WHEN WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT SITTING IN THE FRONT OF THE BUS SOME OF THE BIGGEST ARGUMENTS IN THE POOL ROOM NOW YOU MEAN YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE ON THAT BUS THAT FERTILIZER ON YOUR CLOTHES AND SIT BESIDE THEM PEOPLE YEP HIS NERVE THE SIZE OF HIS AMBITION THE DEPTH OF HIS WANT HAD ALWAYS BEEN THE GENIUS OF JESSE JACKSON HE HAD NEVER BEEN ABOUT SMALL THINGS BUT IF HE WAS SEEKING TO CLOSE DIVIDES IN THE COUNTRY HE ALREADY HAD A PROBLEM MANY AMERICAN JEWS CONSIDERED HIM AN ENEMY OF ISRAEL SOME VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED HIS CANDIDACY I REMEMBER GETTING EVERY DAY PRESS RELEASES FROM MEIR KAHANE'S GROUP YOU KNOW WITH PICTURES OF JACKSON AND ARAFAT HUGGING AND THERE THERE SEEMED TO BE A SENSE THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING KIND OF A RADICAL FACTION OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WAS WAS BECAUSE OF THAT INCIDENT TRYING TO KIND OF PULL DOWN THE CAMPAIGN THE HOSTILITY HAD BEGUN WITH HIS SUPPORT FOR A PALESTINIAN HOMELAND AND JACKSON ONLY INFLAMED THINGS WHEN IN A PRIVATE CHAT HE REFERRED TO NEW YORK AS HYMIETOWN HAVE YOU ISSUED A FLAT DENIAL THAT YOU SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT JACKSON'S CAMPAIGN WAS ABOUT TO BE CAPSIZED BY A CHARGE OF HIS OWN RACISM ANTI SEMITISM HE WENT INTO A BUNKER MENTALITY AND BEGAN TO SOUND LESS LIKE A MORAL PROPHET AND MORE LIKE A POLITICIAN YOU KNOW I'VE TRIED TO BE AS AS HONEST AND AS OPEN ABOUT THIS MATTER AS I COULD I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF IT AND FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IT IS A DENIAL BECAUSE JEWISH GROUPS WERE DEMANDING HE APOLOGIZE PUBLICLY BUT THE LONGER HE REFUSED AND THE MORE HE WAS ATTACKED THE MORE HIS SUPPORT GREW AMONG BLACKS AN APOLOGY HIS ADVISERS SAID WOULD COST HIM BLACK VOTES BUT JACKSON KNEW THERE WAS ONLY ONE WAY TO GO FROM A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR BLACK AMERICA TO A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR ALL AMERICA HOWEVER INNOCENT AND UNINTENDED IT WAS INSENSITIVE AND WRONG A MORAL LEADER MUST BE TOUGH ENOUGH TO FIGHT COMPASSIONATE ENOUGH TO CRY HUMAN ENOUGH TO KNOW ERROR AND HUMBLE ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT AND AND THE CAMPAIGN REALLY JUST KIND OF CONTINUED ON IT WAS VERY HURTFUL BUT IT CONTINUED ON AND ACTUALLY YOU KNOW BUILT SOME MORE STEAM AFTER THAT NEVER DID I THINK THAT ON THIS DAY THAT I WOULD BE IN COLUMBIA MISSOURI STANDING UP ON A TRACTOR WITH SOME SMALL WHITE FARMERS WHO ARE SO AFRAID OF OUR GOVERNMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO WEAR SACKS OVER THEIR HEADS TO HIDE THEIR FACES OUT IN THE COUNTRY JACKSON WAS PICKING UP THE FIRST GLIMMERINGS OF THE COALITION HE HAD BEEN AFTER THE RAINBOW HE CALLED IT IT SEEMED THAT JACKSON CLEARLY WANTED TO TO EXPAND BEYOND HIS BASE THAT HERE WAS A WAY FOR FARMERS AND UNION WORKERS AND ECOLOGISTS YOU KNOW THE WHOLE GREEN MOVEMENT TO GET IN AS A PART OF THIS CAMPAIGN THERE WEREN'T JUST MORE VOTES BUT IT WAS MORE REACH FOR HIM SO ALMOST AT EVERY CAMPAIGN STOP I MEAN THERE WAS SOME MINISTER SOMEWHERE WHO LED A LARGE CONGREGATION WHO WAS UPSET THAT HE WENT TO SPEAK TO A FARMERS' GROUP INSTEAD OF COMING TO HIS CHURCH NOW Y'ALL WE'VE GOT TO GO TO THE CHURCH NOW JACKSON'S SOLUTION BRING THE FARMERS TO THE BLACK CHURCH WE'VE GOT SO MUCH IN COMMON AND SO LITTLE IN CONFLICT WE MUST HAVE THE JUDGMENT TO TURN TO EACH OTHER AND NOT ON EACH OTHER THAT'S OUR CHALLENGE JESSE JACKSON WON THE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TOWN OF COLUMBIA BUT OVER MOST OF THE COUNTRY HIS SUPPORT SPLIT DOWN RACIAL LINES HE CARRIED NINETY PERCENT OF THE BLACK VOTE BUT ONLY FIVE PERCENT OF THE WHITE STILL HE WON A FIFTH OF THE OVERALL PRIMARY VOTE AND NEARLY FOUR HUNDRED DELEGATES BY SHEER MEAN EFFORT HE PUT HIMSELF IN THE ROOM WITH WALTER MONDALE DEAL WITH THE EFFECT OF RACISM AND SEXISM AT THE SAME TIME HE AND MONDALE WERE GOING TO HAVE A NEWS CONFERENCE WELL WHEN THEY WENT TO HAVE THE NEWS CONFERENCE YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT JESSE WAS THE NOMINEE AND MONDALE WAS A FELLOW WHO WAS JUST STANDING BY AND JESSE JUST DOMINATED IT AND OF COURSE ALL THE MONDALE FOLKS GET TERRIBLY UPSET AND THEY SAY OH JESSE'S TAKING CONTROL AND SO FORTH AND SO ON WHEN ONE OF MONDALE'S AIDES CONVINCED THE CAMPAIGN TO GIVE JACKSON A PRIMETIME SLOT FOR HIS CONVENTION SPEECH JACKSON TOLD THE AIDE TONIGHT YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO BE A CHAMP OR A CHUMP I AM NOT A PERFECT SERVANT I AM A PUBLIC SERVANT DOING MY BEST AGAINST THE ODDS AS I DEVELOP AND SERVE BE PATIENT GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ME YET JACKSON EMERGED FROM THAT CAMPAIGN AN INTERNATIONAL FIGURE A MAN ON THE RISE HE WAS ALL OVER THE GLOBE NOW LECTURING THE VATICAN ON APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA PRIVATELY NEGOTIATING FOR THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES HELD IN BEIRUT CONFRONTING GORBACHEV ON HUMAN RIGHTS ACCORDING TO A NINETEEN EIGHTY FIVE POLL AMERICANS HELD HIM IN HIGHER ESTEEM THAN ANY FIGURE SAVE RONALD REAGAN AND THE POPE I THINK JESSE REALLY WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT BUT I ADMIT THAT THIS IS A WHITE COUNTRY AND THAT IT'S NOT LIKELY TO HAPPEN WHEN HE SET OUT IN NINETEEN EIGHTY EIGHT JACKSON SIMPLY REFUSED TO ACCEDE TO THE FUNDAMENTAL RACIAL CALCULUS OF AMERICAN POLITICS AND HE REFUSED TO DEFER TO THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP'S PLAN TO PREVENT ANY LIBERAL FROM BECOMING THE NOMINEE KEY TO THEIR PLAN WAS CREATING SUPER TUESDAY THIS LARGE NUMBER OF PRIMARIES THAT WOULD BE HELD ON THE SAME DAY MOST OF THEM SOUTHERN PRIMARIES WHAT'S HAPPENING MARCH EIGHTH SUPER TUESDAY WHAT'S HAPPENING MARCH EIGHTH SUPER TUESDAY WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO VOTE WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR JESSE JACKSON WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR JESSE JACKSON SUPER TUESDAY WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AL GORE'S DAY HE WAS GOING TO SWEEP THE SOUTH AND SO MUCH OF THE PRESS WAS FILLED WITH EITHER AL GORE OR COULD DUKAKIS WIN YOU KNOW A STATE IN GEORGIA OR IN FLORIDA OR WHATEVER AND JACKSON WAS YOU KNOW A MINOR SUB THEME AT BEST BUT JACKSON SAW SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENING A WEEK BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY HE VISITED SELMA ALABAMA AND THE BRIDGE WHERE HE HAD SEEN CIVIL RIGHTS MARCHERS BEATEN TWENTY THREE YEARS EARLIER OVER THE TOP OF THE CREST OF THE BRIDGE COMES YOUR BASIC SOUTHERN PICK UP TRUCK AND IN THE SOUTHERN PICK UP TRUCK ARE TWO YOUNG WHITE KIDS IN WHITE T. SHIRTS DRINKING BEER I MEAN THE WHOLE THE WHOLE FIVE YARDS AND ONE OF THEM'S SEATED OUTSIDE THE PASSENGER'S COMPARTMENT LOOKING OVER THE HOOD OF THE CAR TO FIND FIGURE OUT WHY IS THE TRAFFIC ALL BACKED UP AND HE SEES JESSE JACKSON AND HE GOES YO JESSE ~ RIGHT AND SO WE THOUGHT YOU KNOW SOMETHING STRANGE IS HAPPENING HERE JACKSON FINALLY FINISHED FIRST OR SECOND IN THIRTEEN OF THE SIXTEEN PRIMARIES THAT TUESDAY HE WAS IN A DEAD HEAT WITH DUKAKIS IN THE RACE FOR DELEGATES AND POPULAR VOTES EIGHTEEN DAYS LATER HE CALLED JACKIE WITH THE BIGGEST NEWS OF THE CAMPAIGN HE TOLD ME WE WON MICHIGAN JACKIE I SAID WAY TO GO JESSE WE'RE DOING GREAT JESSE HE WAS EXHILARATED JACKSON DIDN'T JUST BEAT DUKAKIS IN MICHIGAN HE CLOBBERED HIM TWO TO ONE HE WON NEARLY A QUARTER OF THE STATE'S WHITE VOTE AND NOW LED THE FIELD IN POPULAR VOTES AND TOTAL DELEGATES THERE WAS A MOMENT WHEN WE THOUGHT YOU KNOW WE WE JUST MIGHT IS IT POSSIBLE WE JUST MIGHT DO THIS THERE WERE PEOPLE SAYING OH MY GOODNESS LOOK WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN JESSE JACKSON HAS A CHANCE TO GAIN THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION WHAT IS THIS GOING TO DO TO MY SEAT IN CONGRESS WHAT IS THIS GOING TO DO TO MY RACE AS COUNTY COMMISSIONER WHAT IS THIS GOING TO DO IN THE MAYOR'S RACE SO FORTH AND SO ON WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT I GUESS WE SCARED THE HELL OUT OF THEM YOU KNOW IT WAS KIND OF AMUSING TO ME BECAUSE YOU AS A PERSON YOU WONDER WELL WHAT'S ALL WHY ARE THEY MAKING SO MUCH OF THIS YOU KNOW WE'RE JUST PEOPLE I THINK RUNNING LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE ROAD JACKSON WAS DISCOVERING WHITE WISCONSIN LOVED HIM HE WAS CALLING BURT LANCE TEN TIMES A DAY THIS IS YOUR BROTHER SOMETHING BIG IS HAPPENING OUT HERE THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT JACKSON WAS FEELING THAT HE HAD BROKEN THROUGH IN SOME WAYS THAT HE WAS ABLE FINALLY TO BRING A MESSAGE BEYOND THE BOUNDARIES OF RACE BEYOND THE DIVIDES THAT KEEP AMERICANS FROM HEARING ONE ANOTHER THAT PEOPLE WERE HEARING HIM WHO HAD NEVER BEEN ABLE TO HEAR HIM BEFORE BUT JACKSON LOST WISCONSIN AND THEN HE HAD TO GO TO NEW YORK JEWS AND SUPPORTERS OF ISRAEL WHO ARE NOT JEWISH WOULD BE CRAZY TO VOTE FOR HIM WITH ED KOCH ACTING AS DRUM MAJOR THE NATIONAL PRESS MADE JESSE JACKSON THE ISSUE THE CAMPAIGN WAS ALL ABOUT CHARACTER THEY SAID CHARACTER FLAWS WHEN HE WAS UNDER STRESS AND DOCTOR KING WAS ASSASSINATED HE DIDN'T TELL THE TRUTH HE SAID HE CRADLED DOCTOR KING'S HEAD IN HIS ARMS THE LAST MAN TO SPEAK WITH HIM HIS SHIRT WAS BLOODY AND HE WORE IT FOR TWO DAYS IT WASN'T TRUTHFUL BUT THE SUGGESTION IS THAT FIRST OF ALL YOU NEVER TOUCHED MARTIN LUTHER KING EITHER NEITHER BEFORE DURING OR AFTER HIS DEATH WHICH IS NOT TRUE AND EVEN AS YOU DRAMATIZE THIS WHICH IS QUITE DIVERSIONARY BUT I CAN GO INTO IT I WAS THERE WHEN DOCTOR ABERNATHY CAME OUT OF THE ROOM BECAUSE HE WAS YOU KNOW HE WAS GIVING SPEECHES FOUR FIVE SIX EIGHT SPEECHES A DAY HE'D START AT FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING DOING RADIO TAPES AND HE'D GO TILL ELEVEN THIRTY TWELVE O'CLOCK ONE O'CLOCK O'CLOCK AT NIGHT AND THEN GET UP THE NEXT MORNING AND KEEP GOING AND WE AND HE'D BEEN DOING THAT SINCE BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY ARE MAKING HYSTERIA LET'S KEEP MAKING HISTORY LET'S KEEP HOPE ALIVE THERE'S NO QUESTION HE WAS TIRED AND HE WAS EXHAUSTED AND THERE WAS A LOT OF BITTERNESS BUILDING UP THAT HE COULDN'T EXPRESS PUBLICLY I WENT TO BE WITH HIM IN NEW YORK BECAUSE I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE AND THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE END OF THE EXHILARATION WE TOOK THIS LONG TRAIN RIDE TO PHILADELPHIA FOR THE PENNSYLVANIA PRIMARY AND IT FELT LIKE WE WERE IN A DARK TUNNEL AND NEVER CAME OUT I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE WHAT THE WEATHER WAS LIKE THAT DAY BUT IT JUST FELT LIKE IT WAS BLACK OUTSIDE AND WE WERE IN THIS DARK TRAIN TO NOWHERE JACKSON'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER AND HIS CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN WERE SAYING IT WAS OVER THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD WIN THE NOMINATION BUT JESSE JACKSON COULDN'T LET GO OF IT THE STATE COORDINATOR WANTED JACKSON TO SPEND HIS TIME IN WHITE WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOODS AND SUBURBS A PHILADELPHIA ALDERMAN WAS ANNOUNCING EVENTS IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS JACKSON DID THE ONLY THING HE KNEW TO DO HE KEPT MOVING ADDED AN EXTRA THREE OR FOUR EVENTS TO HIS DAILY SCHEDULE HE WAS TRYING TO BE EVERYWHERE JESSE JACKSON HAD TO WALK THAT LINE WANTED TO WALK THAT LINE AND SOMETIMES THAT BECAME ESPECIALLY HARD IT BECAME ESPECIALLY HARD IN NEW YORK IT BECAME ESPECIALLY HARD IN PENNSYLVANIA JACKSON HAD TO SEE IT HE COULDN'T BRIDGE THE GAP NOT THIS TIME MAYBE NOT EVER HIS OWN SUPPORTERS WERE FIGHTING BITTERLY OVER WHAT VOTES HE SHOULD BE GOING FOR AND I REMEMBER THERE WAS JUST A TREMENDOUS ARGUMENT THIS THIS ALDERMAN FROM PHILADELPHIA CAME UP TO THE SUITE AND I THINK REVEREND JACKSON AND I WERE IN ONE OF THE BEDROOMS TALKING AND WE HEARD THIS TREMENDOUS NOSE OUT AND SOMEONE CURSING AND OH IT WAS IT WAS REALLY AND IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT JESSE JACKSON WAS SORT OF CAUGHT YOU KNOW IN BETWEEN THESE FORCES HE WAS EXHAUSTED ANGRY CAUGHT IN PETTY FIGHTS AND HE HAD TO ASK HIMSELF WHY WAS HE DOING THIS WHAT WAS IT ALL FOR AND LIKE A REPLAY OF THE RUNNING MONOLOGUES HE USED TO HAVE WITH KING JACKSON ANSWERED HIMSELF HERE IS THE CHOIR SINGING BLACK GOSPEL MUSIC COME SO FAR WE CAN'T TURN BACK NOW LORD DIDN'T BRING US THIS FAR TO FAIL US NOW AND YOU JUST SEE JACKSON FILLED UP WITH ENERGY I WAS IN MCALLEN TEXAS BACK IN DECEMBER HISPANICS A MAN HIS WIFE MOTHER IN LAW TWO CHILDREN SITTING BY THE SIDE OF THE ROAD CUTTING BROCCOLI FOR LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS AN HOUR THE CHILDREN SHOULD BEEN IN SCHOOL CHILD LABOR LAWS ARE BEING VIOLATED THE CAMERAS WERE THERE THE WRITERS WERE THERE THE LAW WAS THERE THEY WERE ABANDONED BY LAW THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN OUTDOOR BATHROOM THEY HAD TO RELIEVE THEIR BODIES WITHOUT PRIVACY IN THE OPEN FIELD WHAT DO I WANT I. WANT TO BE YOUR PRESIDENT I WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER I WANT PEACE IN THE WORLD ~ I WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER I WANT TO WIPE OUT MALNUTRITION I WANT TO RAISE THE BABIES I WANT TO MAKE AMERICA BETTER ~ JACKSON'S CAMPAIGNS HAD NEVER BEEN ABOUT SIMPLY WINNING HIS TRIUMPH WAS THAT EVEN IF FOR A BRIEF MOMENT FROM MICHIGAN TO WISCONSIN HE HAD CROSSED OVER THE RACIAL DIVIDE YOU START TALKING ABOUT PROGRESS WE'RE THREE STEPS LOU FROM THE WHITE HOUSE WE'VE GOT TO GO ON GOT TO GO ON WE'RE ALMOST AT THE TOP OF THE HILL WE'VE GOT TO GO ON NICE TO HAVE YOU WITH US ON THE SHOW IF WE CAN GET PAST THE BARRIER OF RACE AND SEX AND SEE PEOPLE AS PEOPLE AND JUDGE THEM BY VALUES AND NOT REJECT THEM ON RACE OR SEX WE'LL BECOME A MUCH BETTER AND A MUCH STRONGER NATION YEAH YEAH YOU YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A GOOD WAY WITH WORDS I LOVE LISTENING TO YOU TALK I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING BUT MAN I LIKE LISTENING TO YOU TALK YOU HAVE A NICE NICE SENSE OF THE VOCABULARY FOR JACKSON THE YEARS SINCE NINETEEN EIGHTY EIGHT HAVE BEEN A SEARCH TO FIND A STAGE COMPARABLE TO A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN TO FIND ANOTHER WAY IN WHICH TO REALIZE THOSE AMBITIONS FOR GREATNESS BORN IN HIM BACK ON HAYNIE STREET IN GREENVILLE SOUTH CAROLINA DESPITE THE EXTRAORDINARY DISTANCES HE HAD ALREADY TRAVELED HIS EARLIEST HUNGERS STILL WERE NOT SATISFIED I AM NOW FIFTY ONE THEY SAY A WOMAN WHO WILL TELL HER AGE WILL TELL EVERYTHING LET ME SAY IT LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY I WOULD LOVE FOR HIM TO SLOW DOWN TO SLOW DOWN IF THERE WAS A RIOT IN LOS ANGELES HE WAS THERE A PLANT CLOSING IN WISCONSIN HE WAS THERE AN EARTHQUAKE IN ARMENIA HE WAS THERE WHEN HE GOT WORD THAT NELSON MANDELA MIGHT BE FREED HE RUSHED OFF TO SOUTH AFRICA STILL SEARCHING FOR THE BIG STAGE THIS GREAT HISTORICAL MOMENT WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AND HE WANTED TO BE A PART OF IT I MEAN HE BROUGHT HIS OWN CAMERA CREW AND HE BROUGHT HIS OWN BIOGRAPHER AND THAT KIND OF THING JESSE DOES LIKE TO BE RECOGNIZED HE LOVES TO BE ON TELEVISION AND HE LOVES TO BE IN THE NEWSPAPERS SO THE SEARCH FOR RECOGNITION FROM ONE'S FELLOWS IS IS NOT UNIQUE TO JACKSON BUT IT'S TRUE JACKSON HAS A BIG HUNGER FOR IT AND SOMETIMES I THINK IT GETS IN THE WAY JESSE'S ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF THE OUTSIDER LOOKING IN AND STRIVING TO GET IN HE IS CONCERNED THAT THE WORLD RESPECT HIM THAT LIFELONG EAGERNESS TO HAVE HIS WORTH AFFIRMED PRODUCED A VICIOUS CIRCLE THE MORE HE SOUGHT RECOGNITION THE MORE ALLERGIC THE PRESS GREW TOWARD HIM THE MORE HE CHASED HIS MOMENT THE MORE IT SEEMED TO FLEE HIS GRASP IT ELUDED HIM EVEN WHEN HE PULLED OFF WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE MOST REMARKABLE FEAT OF HIS ENTIRE CAREER EARLY IN THE GULF CRISIS HE NEGOTIATED THE RELEASE OF FOREIGN NATIONALS HELD HOSTAGE BY SADDAM HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HAD INITIALLY OFFERED FOUR HOSTAGES BUT JACKSON HAD TALKED THE IRAQI DICTATOR INTO RELEASING HUNDREDS OF THEM EFFECTIVELY TAKING AWAY SADDAM'S HUMAN SHIELD AGAINST BOMBING ATTACKS AND YET JACKSON EVEN IN HIS ELATION COULD SENSE WHAT WOULD GREET HIM BACK IN THE STATES I MEAN LOUIS FARRAKHAN WAS THERE AND RAMSEY CLARK WAS THERE JIM AND TAMMY BAKKER COULD HAVE GONE THERE WHAT PREVENTS EVERYBODY FROM GOING WELL ANYBODY WHO WANTS WHAT PREVENTS ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO GET A LITTLE PRESS FROM GOING OVER THERE NOTHING PREVENTS THEM EXCEPT JACKSON WATCHED AS HIS TRIUMPH REGISTERED IN THE GENERAL NOTICE FLICKERINGLY AND TACKILY AT THAT THAT'S THE MOST TERRIBLE BATTLE OF ALL AGAINST CYNICISM HE CONFIDED TO ME LATE ONE NIGHT IN NINETEEN NINETY THREE I'VE BEEN TEMPTED TO GIVE IN TO IT MYSELF SOMETIMES WANT TO GO AHEAD AND IT SOMEHOW JUST WANT TO DIE HAVE IT ALL BE OVER WITH ALL THE HURT ALL THE TRYING THERE'S A DIFFERENT VOICE ON EVERY RADIO CHANNEL A DIFFERENT VOICE ON EVERY TELEVISION BUT THEN THERE'S A VOICE ABOVE ALL VOICES IF YOU TUNE INTO THAT FREQUENCY NO MATTER HOW LOW YOU ARE IT CAN GET YOU UP NO MATTER HOW FAR YOU'RE OUT IT CAN PULL YOU IN THERE'S POWER WONDER WORKING POWER MIRACULOUS POWER SEA OPENING POWER LIFTING FROM THE DEAD POWER THAT ALL POWER POWER THERE'S ANOTHER VOICE IN NINETEEN NINETY FIVE THE YEAR OF O. J. SIMPSON AND NEWT GINGRICH FEARS OF WIDENING RACIAL AND ECONOMIC DIVIDES OBSESSED THE COUNTRY AMERICA JACKSON COULD SENSE WAS IN SEARCH OF A MORAL LEADER SO HE PUT OUT THE CALL IT WAS MOVEMENT TIME HATE AND HOSTILITY IS ON THE LOOSE AND SO IT'S IT'S TIME TO MARCH AGAIN WE WILL MARCH FROM GINGRICH'S DISTRICT TO DOCTOR KING'S GRAVE SITE A THREE DAY THIRTY MILE MARCH FROM THE NIGHTMARE TO THE DREAM THE NIGHT BEFORE HIS MARCH BEGAN JACKSON PRIVATELY PREDICTED A CROWD OF THOUSANDS BLACK AND WHITE YOUNG AND OLD FARM LABOR ENVIRONMENTAL BUT JACKSON NEVER DREW MORE THAN A FEW HUNDRED HIS PROCESSION LOOKED MORE LIKE SOME GHOST MARCH FROM A DIFFERENT AGE WHAT'S THIS ABOUT THEN WHO KNOWS I'M HERE BUYING A JEEP WHO KNOWS COME TO MCDONALD'S AND KEEP HOPE ALIVE WHAT DO THEY WANT THEY WANT THEIR RIGHTS WHAT ARE THEY SAYING THEY WANT A RIDE THROUGHOUT JACKSON'S MARCH COMMENTATORS WERE SAYING THAT HIS POLITICS WERE A THING OF THE PAST THAT HIS TIME WAS OVER AIN'T GOING TO LET NOBODY TURN ME AROUND AS I WATCHED HIM THAT AFTERNOON I COULDN'T HELP CONSIDERING THIS POSSIBILITY WHAT IF THE URGENT HUNGER THE CEASELESS STRIVING THAT HAD CARRIED HIM SO FAR FROM HAYNIE STREET WERE THE VERY THINGS THAT MADE IT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO SEE HIM AS WHAT HE HAD MOST WANTED TO BE A MORAL HERO FOR HIS TIME BUT HE SEEMED NOW TRAPPED BY THAT LIFELONG DREAM JESSE JACKSON NO LONGER SEEMED TO NOTICE HOW FEW PEOPLE WERE WITH HIM HE JUST KEPT ON GOING AND NOW FOR YOUR LETTERS OUR PROGRAM A KID KILLS DREW SOME UNUSUAL RESPONSES THIS TIME FROM STUDENTS IN THE SEVENTH GRADE AT FORRESTDALE MIDDLE SCHOOL IN RUMSON NEW JERSEY ROBERT GALLANTE'S FOURTH PERIOD STUDIES SKILLS CLASS VIEWED THE PROGRAM AND VIDEOTAPED THEIR THOUGHTS FOR US HERE ARE SOME EXCERPTS DEAR FRONTLINE BEFORE I WATCHED A KID KILLS I WAS UNAWARE OF THE PROBLEM AND HOW BIG IT WAS I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT'S LIKE IN THE INNER CITY I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WERE NO JOBS FOR THESE KIDS THAT SOMETIMES THEY CAN'T EVEN GET A MEAL I KNOW NOW WHY THOSE KIDS ACT THE WAY THEY DO THEY DEAL WITH DEATH AT A YOUNG AGE AND THEY HAVE LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES IF I LIVED IN ORCHARD PARK I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE THE SAME CULTURE BECAUSE THAT'S THE CULTURE I WOULD GROW UP WITH I FELT KIND OF SORRY FOR THE KIDS OF ORCHARD PARK FOR NOT HAVING A CLEAN SAFE SCHOOL AND HAVING THEIR GYM SHUT DOWN NEXT TIME I SEE SOMETHING ABOUT DRUGS OR A MURDER ON THE NEWS I WON'T JUST SAY HOW COULD THEY DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT HOW COULD THEY BREAK THE LAW I'LL SAY I WISH THERE WAS SOME WAY I COULD HELP THEM I REALIZE NOW THAT THE YOUNG RESIDENTS OF ORCHARD PARK ARE THE EXACT KIND OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE IN RUMSON YOUR VIEWER MICHELLE JOHNSON MICHAEL LANDRY BART BRENNER RYAN MATTHEWS LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BY FAX BY E. MAIL OR WRITE TO THIS ADDRESS DEAR FRONTLINE ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE WESTERN AVENUE BOSTON MASSACHUSETTS OH TWO ONE THREE FOUR THE PROGRAM A KID KILLS ERRONEOUSLY CHARACTERIZED WILLIE DUNN SINCE BEING RELEASED IN JANUARY NINETEEN NINETY SIX WILLIE HAS HAD NO RUN INS WITH THE LAW IN TWO WEEKS DOCTOR KEVORKIAN WAS IT MERCY OR MURDER HOW HAS DOCTOR DEATH CHANGED THE WAY WE THINK HE WAS READY TO DIE SHE WAS FINALLY AT PEACE THE KEVORKIAN VERDICT NEXT TIME ON FRONTLINE APRIL TWENTY NINTH NINETEEN NINETY SIX SHIMON PERES ON IRAQ'S SADDAM HUSSEIN HE IS CRAZY HE IS CRUEL HE'S A KILLER ON IRAN AND THE NUCLEAR THREAT IT IS THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THAT AN EVIL AND MALICIOUS MOVEMENT COVERED BY A RELIGION LINING MAY ACQUIRE THESE TERRIBLE WEAPONS IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HITLER WOULD HAVE A NUCLEAR BOMB AND ON THE NEED FOR ACTION HERE WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME WE HAVE A REAL COMPETITION DANGER A SHORT TIME AND MUCH IS AT STAKE TONIGHT A CONVERSATION WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES THIS IS A. B. C. NEWS NIGHTLINE REPORTING FROM WASHINGTON TED KOPPEL THIS IS A NIGHT WHEN I NEED TO GIVE YOU A HEAD'S UP IT MAY BE UNDIPLOMATICALLY BLUNT BUT INTERVIEWS WITH VISITING PRIME MINISTERS HAVE A TENDENCY TO BE HIGH ON CACHET AND A LITTLE LOW ON SUBSTANCE TONIGHT'S INTERVIEW WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES WHICH WE RECORDED EARLIER TODAY STARTS OFF A LITTLE SLOWLY BUT THAT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE I WAS ASKING THE WRONG QUESTIONS WHEN WE FINALLY GOT AROUND TO TALKING ABOUT THE DANGER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THE HANDS OF FUNDAMENTALIST IRAN A LOT OF THINGS BEGAN TO FALL INTO PLACE BOTH PERES AND PRESIDENT CLINTON OF COURSE ARE RUNNING FOR REELECTION AND IT IS REASONABLE AND LOGICAL TO ASSUME THAT MR. CLINTON'S UNPRECEDENTED PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR AN ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER OWES AT LEAST SOMETHING TO DOMESTIC U. S. POLITICS AND COURTING THE JEWISH VOTE BUT WHEN YOU HEAR PRIME MINISTER PERES LAY OUT WHAT HE PERCEIVES AS THE GREATEST GLOBAL THREAT SINCE NAZISM AND COMMUNISM YOU MAY BE INCLINED TO MODIFY THE SIMPLE POLITICAL EXPLANATION THE ISRAELIS ACTED ONCE BEFORE TO TAKE OUT THE NUCLEAR CAPACITY OF AN ENEMY LISTEN CAREFULLY TO WHAT MR. PERES SAYS WHEN I ASK HIM WHETHER ISRAEL WOULD DO THAT AGAIN THIS IS ONE INTERVIEW IN OTHER WORDS WHERE WE KNOW WHAT'S COMING AND WHERE I THINK YOU'LL FIND IT WORTHWHILE WAITING UNTIL THE END THERE IS SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT BIZARRE ABOUT THE FACT THAT YASIR ARAFAT IS COMING HERE TOMORROW TO BE WITH YOU AND AND PRESIDENT CLINTON PRESIDENT HUSSEIN OF JORDAN WHO DECIDED SOME TIME AGO A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO NOT TO COME IS NOT GOING TO BE HERE IN A SENSE THAT SYMBOLIZES HOW DRASTICALLY THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE MIDDLE EAST OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS EVEN YES BUT STILL I MAY SAY THAT OUR RELATIONS WITH KING HUSSEIN ARE EXCELLENT WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS AND I BELIEVE THAT ARAFAT MADE SOME IMPORTANT DECISIONS IN HIS LIFE HE CHANGED THE DESTINIES OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND HE BECAME A PARTNER TO THE PEACE PROCESS ONCE HE MADE PEACE WITH ISRAEL WE BECAME THE SAME CAMP AND WE FACE THE SAME DANGERS AMONG THOSE DANGERS I WOULD ASSUME THAT AT THE MOMENT YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO COUNT HAFEZ AL ASSAD HOW DO YOU INTERPRET WHAT ASSAD IS ABOUT I THINK BASICALLY HE MADE THE DECISION TO HAVE PEACE TO MAKE PEACE YOU KNOW FOR MANY GOOD YEARS HE CLAIMED THAT HE WANTS TO ACHIEVE A STRATEGIC EQUILIBRIUM WITH ISRAEL HE GAVE IT UP HE KNOWS THAT HE CANNOT MATCH US MILITARILY NOW HE WANTS TO HAVE AN ECONOMIC EQUILIBRIUM WITH ISRAEL THE PROBLEM WITH ASSAD IS THAT WHILE HE MADE THE STRATEGIC CHOICE HE DIDN'T SELECT ANY TACTIC THAT LEADS TO THE FULFILLMENT OF THAT END IF ONE LOOKS AT THE TACTICS THAT HE HAS BEEN PURSUING I MEAN I FIND IT A LITTLE HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE AS BENEVOLENT IN YOUR PUBLIC UTTERANCES ABOUT ASSAD AS YOU ARE BECAUSE YOU UNDERSTAND BETTER THAN ANYONE THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT HAS VERY LITTLE POWER TO ACT ON ITS OWN UNLESS ASSAD GIVES HIS PERMISSION THE THE ROCKETS THE KATYUSHA ROCKETS THAT WERE FIRED AGAINST NORTHERN ISRAEL CAME THROUGH SYRIA COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN INTO THE HANDS OF HEZBOLLAH IF ASSAD HAD NOT GIVEN HIS PERMISSION WHY ARE YOU SO NICE TO HIM PUBLICLY I'VE LEARNED THE HARD WAY SOMETHING WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT AND THAT IS IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE PEACE MORE THAN YOU NEED A PLAN YOU NEED A PARTNER A PLAN WITHOUT A PARTNER IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER YOUR PREDECESSOR THE LATE PRIME MINISTER RABIN SAID YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T END WAR YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE OR YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE PEACE WITH YOUR FRIENDS IT HAS TO BE WITH YOUR ENEMIES I'M NOT QUOTING HIM PRECISELY BUT USING THAT AS THE LOGIC BEHIND A STRATEGIC POLICY WOULD HAVE YOU FOLLOWING THE SAME KIND OF STRATEGY TOWARD THE IRANIANS THE THE IRAQIS THE LIBYANS WHY NOT NUMBER THERE IS A DIFFERENCE MAYBE IN THE TACTICS THERE IS A SIMILARITY BETWEEN SYRIA AND IRAN BUT WHILE THE IRANIANS ARE DECLARING PUBLICLY THAT THEY WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL THEY DON'T SAY THEY ARE READY TO HAVE PEACE THEY DON'T SAY THEY ARE READY FOR COMPROMISE THEY FINANCE THEY ARM THEY PUSH ALL THE TERRORISTIC ORGANIZATION BECAUSE TO CREATE PROBLEMS TO DESTROY THE PEACE PROCESS YOU KNOW WHERE RELIGIOUS RELIGION BEGINS LOGIC ENDS AND THEY'RE ABOVE REASON THEY'RE ABOVE DIALOGUE THEY'RE ABOVE ANY PROCESS ALL RIGHT WHY NOT TRY TO DEAL THEN WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN AND IRAQ SADDAM HUSSEIN IS A VERY PRACTICAL MAN WHATEVER ELSE YOU MAY THINK OF HIM IN MANY RESPECTS LIKE ASSAD WHEN YOU SAY SO YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A CRAZY MAN AND A PRACTICAL MAN YOU THINK HE'S CRAZY HE IS CRAZY HE'S CRUEL HE'S A KILLER SO IS ASSAD HE MAY NOT BE CRAZY BUT HE'S CRUEL AND HE'S A KILLER HE USED TO BE I MEAN HE ENGAGED TODAY I'M NOT SO SURE I MEAN HE TRIED HIS HANDS TO ACHIEVE MANY THINGS IN ONE WAY TODAY HE KNOWS THAT IT IS UNACHIEVABLE YOU KNOW ASSAD WAS SURE PROBABLY THAT WITHOUT HIM NOTHING WILL MOVE IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY PEACE PROCESS HE WAS EVEN PROBABLY SURE THAT ARAFAT WILL NOT GO OUR WAY THAT HUSSEIN WILL NOT MAKE PEACE WITH US IT WAS A LITTLE BIT SURPRISE AND SINCE HE IS VERY FAR FROM BEING A FOOL HE DRAW HIS LESSONS PRIME MINISTER PERES WE HAVE TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK WE'LL BE BACK WITH PRIME MINISTER PERES OF ISRAEL IN JUST A MOMENT AND WE'RE BACK ONCE AGAIN WITH THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL SHIMON PERES MR. PRIME MINISTER TALK TO ME FOR A MOMENT ABOUT WHAT YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS WERE AND I DON'T MEAN NOW AS PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL BUT YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS AS A FATHER AND A GRANDFATHER WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE ATTACKS ON THAT U. N. CENTER IN LEBANON WHERE ALMOST ONE HUNDRED LEBANESE MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN WERE KILLED I REGRET IT DEEPLY IT WAS A SHOCK TO ME BUT THAT'S ONE SIDE OF THE STORY I MUST BE ALSO RESPONSIBLE IF I AS THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE SEND ISRAELI SOLDIERS IN THE DEPTH OF THE LEBANESE TERRITORY TO INTERCEPT THE LAUNCHING OF KATYUSHAS AND THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED I CANNOT TELL THEM DON'T DEFEND YOURSELF AND WHEN THEY DEFEND THEMSELVES AND UNFORTUNATELY SIX SHELLS OVERFLY THE TARGET AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA THAT THERE ARE CIVILIANS WHAT CAN I TELL THEM THE U. N. SAYS DIFFERENTLY THERE WERE U. N. PERSONNEL THERE WHO SAY THEY CALLED THE ISRAELI MILITARY THAT THE ISRAELI MILITARY DID IN FACT KNOW THAT THERE WERE MANY CIVILIANS IN THAT CAMP THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT I HEAR SOMETHING LIKE IT THE U. N. FIELD SPOKESMAN ACTUALLY SAID THAT THEY WITNESSED THE ATTACK UPON OUR FORCE THAT IS TRUE YES AND THE ISRAELIS IF THEY WOULD KNOW I ASSURE YOU THAT NO ISRAELI OFFICER WOULD SHOOT AT WOMEN AND CHILDREN YOU MANY OF OUR OFFICERS LOST THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT AT CHILDREN AND WOMEN ARE YOU TELLING ME NOW THAT ISRAEL CANNOT DO THAT IN THE FUTURE IF THE HEZBOLLAH BREAKS THE AGREEMENT LET US SAY THAT ROCKETS DO COME FROM A CIVILIAN CENTER AS THEY MOST CERTAINLY WILL IF HEZBOLLAH BREAKS THE AGREEMENT THE ANSWER IS YES YES WHAT WE SHALL TRY TO SEPARATE WHEN ATTACKING THE TERRORISTS AND TOUCHING THE CIVILIANS WE ARE TELLING THE LEBANESE MAKE UP YOUR MIND EITHER YOU WANT TO SERVE AS A SHELTER TO THE HEZBOLLAH AND THEN YOU WILL HAVE TO SEPARATE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO HURT CIVILIAN LIFE OR PREVENT THEM FROM COMING IN IN THE MIDST OF YOUR OWN EXISTENCE ALL OF THAT PRESUMES PRIME MINISTER PERES THAT THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAS THE CAPABILITY OF DOING WHAT YOU DEMAND OF THEM WHICH BRINGS US BACK ONCE AGAIN TO THE PUPPETEER HAFEZ AL ASSAD HE IS THE ONE WHO CONTROLS THE ACTIONS OF HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANON NOT THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT I WOULD SAY THAT CONCERNING THE HEZBOLLAH IRAN IS THE ENGINE AND SYRIA ARE THE BRAKES OF IT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE SYRIANS HAVE ORDERED THE HEZBOLLAH TO ATTACK US NO BUT THEY CAN'T PREVENT IT BUT THEY ALLOWED THE KATYUSHA ROCKETS TO PASS THROUGH SYRIA YES THEY DID AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ALSO LEARN IN THE FUTURE THAT IT CARRIES A PRICE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED REALLY WHY DID THEY AGREE FINALLY TO HAVE A TRUCE OR A CEASE FIRE BECAUSE WE TOLD THE VILLAGERS LEAVE THE VILLAGE WE WANT TO STOP THE SHOOTING OF THE KATYUSHAS SO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS LEFT BUT YOU YOU DESTROYED A LOT OF CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE NO WE DIDN'T DESTROY HOUSES BUT POSITIONS MAYBE A HOUSE IN A VILLAGE FROM WHICH THEY USED TO SHOOT KATYUSHAS WE WERE CAREFUL NOT TO CAUSE ANY DESTRUCTION IN INFRASTRUCTURE WE DID NOT DESTROY ROADS WE CONTROLLED THE ROADS SO KATYUSHAS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GO FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH IT WAS A VERY THOUGHT OUT OPERATION DON'T MAKE A MISTAKE ABOUT IT PRIME MINISTER PERES A LOT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN GOING ON WITHIN THE POLITICAL CONTEXT OF YOUR ELECTIONS OUR UPCOMING ELECTIONS AND I'D LIKE TO FOCUS ON ON BOTH THOSE POINTS IN JUST A MOMENT BUT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER SHORT BREAK BACK WITH PRIME MINISTER PERES IN A MOMENT WE'RE BACK ONCE AGAIN WITH THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL SHIMON PERES MR. PRIME MINISTER YOU HAD A YOU HAD AN IMAGE PROBLEM ONLY A FEW MONTHS AGO IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY IN THE SENSE THAT BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS PERCEIVED AS THE TOUGH GUY LIKUD IS PERCEIVED AS BEING MUCH TOUGHER IN TERMS OF REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF ISRAEL THE LABOR PARTY YOU IN PARTICULAR DO NOT HAVE THAT TOUGH AN IMAGE INDEED I MEAN WORSE THINGS CAN BE SAID ABOUT A MAN THAN THAT HE IS PERCEIVED AS A PEACEMAKER BUT THAT WAS LOSING OR APPARENTLY LOSING VOTES FOR YOU AS FAR AS THE POLLS WERE CONCERNED ONE COULD ARGUE THAT THIS OPERATION IN LEBANON SERVED YOUR PURPOSES VERY WELL POLITICALLY RESPOND TO THAT FOR A MOMENT I THINK IT'S TOTALLY WRONG BECAUSE BEFORE THE OPERATION I HAVE HAD AN EDGE OF SIXTEEN PERCENT WITHOUT THE SHOOTING AND WITHOUT THE FIGHTING BECAUSE OF THE SHOOTING AND THE FIGHTING I LOST I DIDN'T WIN ANYTHING I MEAN IF YOU ASK FOR MY OF COURSE REALLY SINCERE VIEWS THAT I AM ENGAGED IN TWO CAMPAIGNS A DOMESTIC CAMPAIGN WHICH IS OKAY I HAVE AN OPPOSITION WE HAVE AN OPPOSITION THEY OPPOSE I AM TRYING NOT TO LET THEM BECOME UNEMPLOYED AND HAVE THEIR OWN PORTION BUT THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE A SECOND CAMPAIGN BY THE INTERVENTION OF THE ANTI PEACE FORCES IN THE ARAB WORLD I CANNOT DO THINGS IN ORDER TO BE LIKED OR DISLIKED FINALLY AT MY AGE AND MY POSITION YOU CANNOT BUY ME BUY ME OFF BY POWER OR PRESTIGE OR POLLS BUT IF I HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN BEING REELECTED AND PERFORMING CORRECTLY AS A PRIME MINISTER AND AS A DEFENSE MINISTER MY FIRST CALL IS TO MY DUTIES AND NOT TO MY ELECTIONS BUT TED LET ME SAY SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS IF YOU WANT TO HAVE MY REAL VIEW THERE IS A RACE BETWEEN TWO CONVOYS IN THE MIDDLE EAST THE FUNDAMENTALISTIC ONE WHICH WANTS TO MOBILIZE THE MUSLIM WORLD AGAINST ISRAEL TO DESTROY IT THAT USES TERROR THAT TRIES TO REQUIRE NONCONVENTIONAL ARMS THAT FEELS THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIE AND CHEAT AND KILL BECAUSE SUCH AN IMPORTANT GOAL JUSTIFIES ALL MEANS AND OUR CONVOY WHICH IS A CONVOY OF CREATING A NEW STRATEGY CREATING A NEW COALITION I THINK WE HAVE ONLY FOUR YEARS TO WIN THIS RACE OR TO LOSE IT WHY FOUR YEARS BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT IN FOUR YEARS THEY MAY REACH NUCLEAR WEAPONS YOU KNOW IT'S NOT FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAVE AN EVIL MOVEMENT IN HISTORY IT IS THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THAT AN EVIL AND MALICIOUS MOVEMENT COVERED BY A RELIGIOUS LINING MAY ACQUIRE THESE TERRIBLE WEAPONS IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HITLER WOULD HAVE A NUCLEAR BOMB THE WHOLE HISTORY WOULD BE DIFFERENT AND I FEEL CONVINCED AND COMMITTED TO WIN THIS RACE NOT TO LET IT TO ANYBODY ELSE NOT TO SAY SOMEBODY WILL DO IT IF I COMPARE IT WITH HITLER AT THE TIME OF HITLER WE DIDN'T HAVE A STATE IF WE WOULD HAVE A STATE MAYBE THINGS WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT HERE WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME WE HAVE A REAL COMPETITION DANGER A SHORT TIME AND MUCH IS AT STAKE PRIME MINISTER WE WE HAVE COME ALMOST TO THE END OF MY ALLOTTED TIME AND I'M SORRY IT'S MY FAULT BECAUSE WE HAVE COME TO THE MOST IMPORTANT PART AT THE END BUT LET ME JUST TRY AND ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A FOUR YEAR TIMETABLE AND THE ACQUISITION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IRAN YES A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS PRIME MINISTER BEGIN LAUNCHED OR ORDERED THE LAUNCHING OF AN ATTACK AGAINST NUCLEAR FACILITIES IN IRAQ FOR PRECISELY THE SAME REASON ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE SAME THING MIGHT HAPPEN NOW WITH IRAN NOT NECESSARILY I WOULD RATHER SEE AN EARLIER ATTEMPT TO INTERCEPT THIS DANGER BECAUSE EVEN SINCE THEN THINGS HAVE CHANGED TODAY YOU CAN PRODUCE NUCLEAR BOMBS WITHOUT HAVING REACTORS YOU CAN DO IT IN CAVES YOU CAN DO IT BY CENTRIFUGES IT'S NOT A SIMPLE PROPOSITION AND THERE'S ALSO NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY LEAKING OUT OF THE FORMER SOVIET UNION EXACTLY SO IS IT YOUR IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT SOME OF THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE ITS WAY TO IRAN IN THE WAY OF KNOWLEDGE I AM AFRAID YES IT SURELY MADE ITS WAY TO IRAQ I THINK IRAQ TODAY IF IT WOULDN'T BE FOR THE CAMPAIGN AGAINST IRAQ IRAQ WOULD HAVE ALREADY A NUCLEAR BOMB YOU KNOW IN SPITE OF OUR BOMBING THEIR REACTOR WHEN YOU SAY IN TERMS OF KNOWLEDGE ARE YOU ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT FORMER SOVIET SCIENTISTS OR MILITARY PEOPLE WITH NUCLEAR KNOWLEDGE ARE NOW WORKING WITH THE IRANIANS I CAN'T SAY IT WITH CERTAINTY BUT WE KNOW THERE ARE ONE HUNDRED FIFTY RUSSIAN EXPERTS TRYING TO BUILD WHAT THE RUSSIANS ARE SAYING IS A CIVILIAN NUCLEAR CAPACITY BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS SO THIN AND SO WORRYING AND IT IS BECAUSE OF IT THAT I THINK THAT A UNITED POLICY BY THE WESTERN WORLD AND WITH RUSSIA TO PREVENT THE IRANIANS FROM HAVING A COMBINATION OF A FUNDAMENTALISTIC MOVEMENT AND A NUCLEAR CAPACITY IS ESSENTIAL IT IS BETTER TO PREVENT IT BY SAY AN ECONOMIC PRESSURE THAN BY A MILITARY CONFRONTATION WOULD IT BE FAIR THEN TO SAY WOULD YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS BEEN AS SUPPORTIVE OF YOU AND HE'S BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY PUBLICLY SUPPORTIVE OF YOU IS NOT SO MUCH THE THE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP EVEN BUT THAT THE UNITED STATES SEES ITS NATIONAL INTERESTS EQUALLY THREATENED IT GOES TOGETHER YOU KNOW PRESIDENT CLINTON IF YOU ASK ME IS A MOVING FRIEND WE ARE MOVED BY HIM HE VISITED ISRAEL CONTRARY TO ALL PROTOCOLS TWICE ONCE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FUNERAL OF THE LATE YITZHAK RABIN THEN AGAIN HE CAME WHEN WE HAD THE BOMBS IN JERUSALEM HE MET OUR YOUTH HE CONQUERED THEIR HEART THIS IS NOT IN THE CONTRADICTION OF REALLY TRYING TO CREATE A COALITION AGAINST THE GREATEST DANGER IN OUR TIME AFTER COMMUNISM AND NAZISM WHICH IS FUNDAMENTALISM FUNDAMENTALISM ARMED WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS YOU SAY EXACTLY SO PRIME MINISTER PERES WE AS I SAY WE GOT TO THE WE GOT TO THE MOST INTERESTING PART AT THE END MY FAULT BUT I THANK YOU FOR RAISING IT AND I THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN FOR BEING A GUEST ON NIGHTLINE APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH THANK YOU VERY MUCH I'LL BE BACK IN A MOMENT AND THAT'S OUR REPORT FOR TONIGHT I'M TED KOPPEL IN WASHINGTON FOR ALL OF US HERE AT A. B. C. NEWS GOOD NIGHT GAS PRICES GOING UP THE PRESIDENT AND THE REPUBLICANS SUDDENLY DECIDE IT'S AN ISSUE A NEW DRUG TO HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT THE GOVERNMENT APPROVES ITS SALE TODAY AND AN A. B. C. NEWS INVESTIGATION OF THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM BUT ARE SOME CRIMINALS TOO DANGEROUS TO PROTECT FROM A. B. C. THIS IS WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH PETER JENNINGS GOOD EVENING WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH THE PRESIDENT'S POLICY TOWARDS ILLEGAL DRUGS EVERY PRESIDENT HAS A POLICY OR SOON DEVELOPS ONE AND PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS NOW DEVELOPED HIS AND ASKED THE CONGRESS FOR FIFTEEN BILLION DOLLARS TO TAKE CARE OF IT NEXT YEAR HERE'S OUR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT BRIT HUME THE PRESIDENT IS PROUD OF HIS RECORD ON CRIME AND TALKS ABOUT IT A LOT LATELY THOUGH HE IS ENGAGED IN A FLURRY OF ACTIVITY ON THE DRUG ISSUE IT BEGAN WITH THE APPOINTMENT OF ARMY GENERAL BARRY MCCAFFREY WHO WAS WITH MR. CLINTON TODAY IN FLORIDA AS HIS DRUG POLICY CHIEF THE PRESIDENT NOW TALKS ABOUT HIM A LOT AND WITH GENERAL MCCAFFREY AS GENERAL MCCAFFREY SAID YOU HEARD GENERAL MCCAFFREY ALLUDE TO THAT AND GENERAL MCCAFFREY THE REASON FOR THE PRESIDENT'S SUDDEN EMPHASIS ON THE ISSUE IS SIMPLE AND HE STATED IT HIMSELF TODAY WHILE THE DRUG RATE HAS GONE DOWN DRUG USAGE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP WHILE THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE DOWN RANDOM VIOLENCE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP SO MR. CLINTON HAS EXPANDED HIS DRUG POLICY OFFICE WHICH HE DRASTICALLY CUT BACK IN HIS FIRST YEAR TODAY AT THIS SCHOOL IN FLORIDA WHERE STUDENTS HAVE TAKEN A NO DRUG PLEDGE HE OUTLINED A NEW STRATEGY TO FIGHT DRUGS IT RELIES ON PERSUADING KIDS TO AVOID DRUGS AND TREATING AND PREVENTING ADDICTION WHEN IT OCCURS BUT IT ALSO CONTAINS SOMETHING NEW FOR THIS PRESIDENT STEPPED UP EFFORTS TO STOP DRUGS AT THE BORDERS AND TO CUT OFF SOURCES OF SUPPLY IN OTHER COUNTRIES MR. CLINTON ONCE DERIDED THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION FOR ITS EFFORTS TO DO THAT TODAY THE PRESIDENT CALLED FOR BIPARTISANSHIP ON THE ISSUE AND GOT FROM REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON THE RESPONSE YOU'D EXPECT IN AN ELECTION YEAR I'M NOT GETTING ANY GREAT JOY OUT OF STANDING HERE SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS DONE A LOUSY JOB ON THIS BUT YOU CANNOT LOOK AT THE LAST TWO YEARS AND SAY HE'S DONE A GOOD JOB HE'S DONE A BAD JOB THE PRESIDENT WOULD STRONGLY DISPUTE THAT BUT THE VERY FACT THAT HE'S INTRODUCING A NEW STRATEGY THREE YEARS AND FOUR MONTHS INTO HIS TERM IS A SIGN THAT ON DRUG POLICY HE'D RATHER TALK ABOUT WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO THAN WHAT HE'S DONE BRIT HUME A. B. C. NEWS THE WHITE HOUSE NOTHING IN WASHINGTON GOES UNTOUCHED BY POLITICS AND HERE'S SOME BASIC POLITICAL WISDOM NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF ANGRY MOTORISTS WITH GASOLINE PRICES AT THEIR HIGHEST LEVEL IN FIVE YEARS POLITICIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE ALMOST FALLING OVER THEMSELVES DENOUNCING THE OIL COMPANIES AND TELLING US WHAT THEY WOULD DO TO BRING THE PRICES DOWN PRESIDENT CLINTON GOT INTO THE ACT TODAY WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IN WASHINGTON A. B. C.'S JOHN COCHRAN THE PRESIDENT'S ACTION IS AIMED AT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT HIGHER GAS PRICES JUST BEFORE DEMAND PEAKS THIS SUMMER WHEN AMERICANS TAKE TO THE ROAD THE PRESIDENT ORDERED HIS ADMINISTRATION TO BEGIN SELLING ABOUT TWELVE MILLION BARRELS OF U. S. PETROLEUM RESERVES THE IDEA IS TO INCREASE MARKET SUPPLY IN AN ATTEMPT TO DRIVE PRICES DOWN OR AT LEAST HOLD THEM STEADY BOB DOLE SCOFFED AT THE NOTION SELLING OFF TWELVE MILLION BARRELS THAT'S LESS THAN ONE DAY'S CONSUMPTION IN THE UNITED STATES IT MAY HAVE SOME IMPACT AROUND THE EDGES THE ONE THING HE LEFT OFF IS REPEALING THE GAS TAX THAT'S ONE WAY TO GET IMMEDIATE RELIEF AND IT'S CERTAIN IT'S FOUR POINT THREE CENTS A GALLON THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS IT IS WILLING TO DISCUSS REPEALING OR LOWERING THAT TAX PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS ALSO ASKED ENERGY SECRETARY HAZEL O'LEARY TO REVIEW THE FACTORS THAT LED TO THE PRICE HIKES AND REPORT BACK IN FORTY FIVE DAYS THE OIL INDUSTRY SAYS INCREASES WERE NEEDED TO OFFSET COSTS RESULTING FROM ANTI POLLUTION LAWS HEAVY USE OF FUEL LAST WINTER AND UNCERTAIN OIL PRODUCTION IN THE MIDEAST THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT CONVINCED AND HOPES ITS REVIEW WILL MAKE OIL PRODUCERS NERVOUS MAYBE NERVOUS ENOUGH TO LOWER PRICES DEMOCRATS ALSO WANT TO MAKE REPUBLICANS NERVOUS BY TYING THEM TO OIL PRODUCERS THE CHRISTIANS HAD A BETTER CHANCE AGAINST THE LIONS THAN THE AMERICAN CONSUMER HAS AGAINST THE UNHOLY ALLIANCE OF THE BIG OIL COMPANIES AND NEWT GINGRICH AND BOB DOLE MAYBE NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE WHY GASOLINE PRICES ARE SO HIGH BUT IN AN ELECTION YEAR POLITICIANS KNOW THEY HAD BETTER APPEAR TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT JOHN COCHRAN A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON JUST ONE NOTE TODAY ABOUT THE MONEY SIDE OF RUNNING FOR POLITICS QUESTION WHO MUCH MONEY DID ROSS PEROT'S REFORM COMMITTEE WHICH IS RAISING MONEY FOR AN INDEPENDENT RUN AT THE WHITE HOUSE TAKE IN DURING THE MONTH OF MARCH SIX HUNDRED FOURTEEN THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED FORTY TWO DOLLARS HOW MUCH DID ROSS PEROT CONTRIBUTE THAT AMOUNT PRECISELY THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION SAYS MR. PEROT WAS THE ONLY CONTRIBUTOR THERE IS A NEW PRESCRIPTION DRUG TO TREAT OBESITY IN A MOMENT THE PROS AND THE CONS OF DEXFEN ALSO TONIGHT THE SEARCH FOR THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE C. I. A. HE IS STILL MISSING AND THE PENTAGON AS DISCOUNT RETAILER IT IS YOUR MONEY SEVERAL STORIES ON OUR HEALTH REPORT TODAY THE FIRST ONE IS ABOUT LOSING WEIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TWENTY TWO YEARS THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION TODAY APPROVED A NEW DRUG FOR THE TREATMENT OF OBESITY IT IS THE FIRST DRUG APPROVED FOR A LONG TERM USE HERE'S A. B. C.'S GEORGE STRAIT DEXFEN AS IT'S CALLED WAS DEVELOPED IN FRANCE AND IS LIKELY TO BENEFIT SEVENTY FIVE MILLION AMERICANS THAT'S THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE CONSIDERED TO BE OBESE BECAUSE THEY WEIGH THIRTY PERCENT MORE THAN RECOMMENDED THE F. D. A. SAYS THE DRUG CAN BE TAKEN FOR UP TO A YEAR OTHER APPETITE SUPPRESSANTS ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR A FEW MONTHS IT WILL BE THE FIRST MEDICATION THAT WILL BE APPROVED FOR CONTINUING USE WITH THE RECOGNITION THAT OBESITY REALLY IS A CHRONIC DISEASE AND AN INCURABLE DISEASE AND NEEDS CONTINUALLY KIND OF TREATMENT THIS DRUG WORKS BEST WHEN USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH A REDUCED CALORIE DIET AND EXERCISE STUDIES SHOW PEOPLE CAN LOSE UP TO TEN PERCENT OF THEIR BODY WEIGHT WITHIN SIX MONTHS AND KEEP IT OFF FOR A YEAR YOU STILL HAVE TO BE ON A DIET YOU STILL HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THE MEDICATION WILL NOT MAKE IT HAPPEN FOR YOU THE DRUG'S SIDE EFFECTS ARE SAID TO BE MILD A LITTLE DRY MOUTH OR DROWSINESS NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT'S SOLD THERE WILL BE A LABEL ON THE PACKAGE SAYING DEXFEN SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN BY PEOPLE WITH HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE OR PREGNANT WOMEN GEORGE STRAIT A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON IN WASHINGTON TODAY A NINETEEN YEAR OLD WEST AFRICAN WOMAN IS MAKING NEWS AND BY DOING SO SHE IS DRAWING ATTENTION TO AMERICAN IMMIGRATION POLICY AND TO ONE OF THE MOST DISTASTEFUL PRACTICES THAT SOME WOMEN STILL HAVE TO ENDURE IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD HERE'S A. B. C.'S MICHELE NORRIS FAZIA KASINGA FLED HER WEST AFRICAN HOMELAND OF TOGO AFTER SHE WAS SOLD INTO A POLYGAMOUS MARRIAGE HER HUSBAND INSISTED THAT SHE UNDERGO FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION REMOVING THE FEMALE SEX ORGAN OR CLITORIS WITH A KNIFE OR RAZOR BLADE OFTEN WITHOUT ANESTHESIA FROM WHAT I I KNOW THAT IS A VERY TERRIBLE THING IT'S VERY HARMFUL IT KILLS WOMEN ALL THE TIME SO I WILL NEVER ALLOW MYSELF TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCEDURE SO KASINGA ESCAPED USING A BLACK MARKET PASSPORT TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES BUT INSTEAD OF FINDING ASYLUM KASINGA HAS SPENT THE PAST SIXTEEN MONTHS BEHIND BARS RELEASED FROM JAIL LAST WEDNESDAY FOLLOWING CONSIDERABLE MEDIA ATTENTION IN HER PLIGHT BUT HER STRUGGLE COULD LEAD TO A LARGER VICTORY AFTER INITIALLY REJECTING HER ASYLUM CLAIM THE I. N. S. NOW PLANS TO USE HER CASE TO SET PRECEDENT FOR ALL WOMEN WHO CLAIM THAT GENITAL MUTILATION IS A FORM OF PERSECUTION WE THINK THAT HERE THIS IS CLEARLY APPROPRIATE TO PROVIDE PROTECTION TO CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE FACING THIS KIND OF A RISK THAT'S PART OF WHAT OUR ASYLUM INSTITUTION SHOULD BE THERE FOR THE HEARING WILL BEGIN THIS THURSDAY MICHELE NORRIS A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON OVERSEAS ON THE AUSTRALIAN ISLAND OF TASMANIA TODAY THE MAN WHO KILLED AT LEAST THIRTY FOUR PEOPLE YESTERDAY HAS BEEN FULLY IDENTIFIED POLICE SAY HE'S A TWENTY EIGHT YEAR OLD AUSTRALIAN NAMED MARTIN BRYANT WHO HAD A HISTORY OF PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS AFTER THE SHOOTING HE HAD BARRICADED HIMSELF IN THIS HOUSE BUT HE WAS CAPTURED AFTER HE SET IT ON FIRE AND WAS FORCED TO ESCAPE THE FLAMES THE PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA JOHN HOWARD SAID TODAY THAT HIS NATION HAD BEEN SHAKEN TO THE CORE ON WALL STREET TODAY THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIALS GAINED FIVE AND ONE HALF POINTS TO CLOSE AT FIVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED SEVENTY THREE ON THE NASDAQ MARKET STOCKS GAINED JUST ABOUT A POINT IN TEXAS BEYOND SELF SERVICE ALMOST THE GAS STATION THAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ATTENDANTS MOTORISTS USE CASH OR CREDIT OR DEBIT CARDS TO FILL UP IT IS LIKE A BANK'S AUTOMATED TELLER MACHINE EXCEPT THERE IS A VIDEO CAMERA AND AN INTERCOM TO A NEARBY MANNED STATION SO YOU CAN STILL ASK FOR DIRECTIONS SHELL OIL HAS TWO TEST SITES IN HOUSTON AND IN DAYTON OHIO NO PLANS YET TO ROLL OUT THE IDEA NATIONWIDE AND NO ONE TO DO YOUR WINDSCREEN THE UNDERCOVER CROOKS WHO ARE HELPING THE POLICE BUT PUTTING THE PUBLIC AT RISK BACK IN JUST A MOMENT WE HAVE AN A. B. C. NEWS INVESTIGATION TONIGHT INTO THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM AND IT SUGGESTS THAT THE PUBLIC MAY SOMETIMES NEED AS MUCH PROTECTION AS THE WITNESSES MORE AND MORE PROSECUTORS ARE RELYING ON INFORMANTS TO MAKE CRIMINAL CASES BUT ARE THEY DOING ENOUGH TO PROPERLY SCREEN OR CONTROL THEM A. B. C.'S JAMES WALKER HAS BEEN INVESTIGATING ALBUQUERQUE NEW MEXICO LAST SEPTEMBER WHILE THOUSANDS OF YOUNGSTERS WERE ENJOYING THE ANNUAL STATE FAIR POLICE ISSUED THIS URGENT PLEA PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BE AWARE OF WHERE YOUR CHILDREN ARE AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING THE REASON A CHILD RAPIST WAS LOOSE IN THE CITY POLICE RELEASED A COMPOSITE PICTURE OF THE MAN WHO HAD KIDNAPPED TWO BOYS THEN DROVE THEM INTO NEARBY MOUNTAINS WHERE HE RAPED THEM BEFORE EVENTUALLY LETTING THEM GO HOW THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED IS JUST BEYOND ME I FELT SO BAD FOR JAKE WHAT HE HAS HAD TO ENDURE THREE DAYS LATER THIS MAN MICHAEL ROBINSON WAS ARRESTED FOR THE CRIMES AS HE WAS BEING DRIVEN TO POLICE HEADQUARTERS HE MADE A STARTLING CLAIM TO DEPUTY SHERIFF JEANNIE WEBB HE TELLS ME HE SAYS WELL LOOK I'M SCHEDULED TO ENTER THE FEDERAL WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM NEXT WEEK AND I SAID YEAH RIGHT IN FACT HE WAS RIGHT SIX MONTHS EARLIER FACING A MANDATORY TEN YEAR PRISON SENTENCE FOR DRUG TRAFFICKING ROBINSON BECAME AN INFORMANT FOR THE U. S. ATTORNEY IN A MARIJUANA AND MURDER INVESTIGATION IN RETURN HIS SENTENCE WAS SUSPENDED AND HE BECAME ELIGIBLE TO ENTER THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM BUT HIS DRUG CHARGE WASN'T HIS ONLY RUN IN WITH POLICE HE HAD BEEN CONVICTED THREE TIMES OF RAPING CHILDREN AND IN THIS NINETEEN EIGHTY FIVE COURT DOCUMENT HE TOLD A PSYCHOLOGIST THAT OVER AN EIGHT YEAR PERIOD HE HAD ACTUALLY RAPED CHILDREN QUOTE SO MANY TIMES TWO HUNDRED TIMES THAT THERE IS NO THOUGHT INVOLVED ANY MORE MOREOVER WHEN FEDERAL PROSECUTOR ELIZABETH MARTINEZ RECRUITED ROBINSON AS AN INFORMANT SHE WAS AWARE OF HIS CONVICTIONS FOR RAPE SHE REFUSED TO TALK TO A. B. C. NEWS BUT SHE DID SPEAK TO DEPUTY SHERIFF WEBB AND HER PARTNER JANET PERILLA SHE WAS SAYING THAT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE DESPICABLE TO CATCH THE DESPICABLE WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE IF YOU DON'T DRAW IT AT PEDOPHILE THEN YOU DON'T DRAW IT ANYWHERE WHEN PROSECUTORS ASKED A FEDERAL JUDGE LAST JUNE TO APPROVE THEIR DEAL WITH ROBINSON THEY DID PROMISE THAT THEY WOULD QUOTE ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE COMMUNITY BUT BERNALILLO COUNTY UNDERSHERIFF KENNETH MCWETHY WHOSE DETECTIVES WERE ASSIGNED TO MONITOR ROBINSON FOR THE FEDERAL TASK FORCE SAYS THAT WAS IMPOSSIBLE YOU CAN'T STAY WITH AN INFORMANT TWENTY FOUR HOURS A DAY AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE WORKING THREE OR FOUR INFORMANTS AT A TIME ON A CASE YOU CAN'T STAY WITH THEM TWENTY FOUR HOURS A DAY THE USE OF INFORMANTS LIKE ROBINSON IS NOT UNCOMMON MORE AND MORE PROSECUTORS ARE STRIKING DEALS WITH CRIMINALS SOMETIMES EVEN FREEING THEM FROM JAIL IN EXCHANGE FOR PROVIDING INFORMATION ON OTHER CRIMINALS AND THE POLICY HAS ITS COSTS IN SPOKANE WASHINGTON AN F. B. I. INFORMANT AFTER GETTING A NEW IDENTITY AND ENTERING THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM COMMITTED MURDER IN FRESNO CALIFORNIA ANOTHER DRUG INFORMANT IN THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM MURDERED AN ARMORED CAR DRIVER DURING A HOLD UP IN LAUREL COUNTY KENTUCKY AN INFORMANT WITH A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE MURDERED TWO BROTHERS WHILE WORKING FOR TH F. B. I. I ABSOLUTELY THINK THAT THE INFORMANT SYSTEM IS THE MOST DANGEROUS SINGLE PART OF THE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM PHILIP HEYMANN WAS DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON AND AN AUTHOR OF THE INFORMANT GUIDELINE STILL USED BY THE F. B. I. HEYMANN THINKS CRIMINALS WHO ARE HABITUAL AND PATHOLOGICAL SHOULD NOT BE USED THAT SUPERVISION OF ALL INFORMANTS SHOULD BE TIGHTENED JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS REFUSED TO DISCUSS HEYMANN'S PROPOSALS THEY ALSO DECLINED TO SAY HOW MANY INFORMANTS HAVE COMMITTED VIOLENT CRIMES WHILE WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY WOULD NOT EXPLAIN WHY THEY WOULD EVER DO BUSINESS WITH A MAN LIKE MICHAEL ROBINSON JAMES WALKER A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON THE SEARCH FOR THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE C. I. A. AFTER THIS WE MARK THE TWENTY FIFTH ANNIVERSARY TODAY OF A VERY CONTROVERSIAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY IT IS THE OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION COMMONLY KNOWN AS OSHA SEVERAL THOUSAND AMERICANS LOSE THEIR LIVES ON THE JOB EVERY YEAR SO OSHA CERTAINLY HAS ITS SUPPORTERS BUT INCREASINGLY OSHA HAS BECOME A LIGHTNING ROD FOR THOSE WHO THINK THAT GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY MAKES THEIR LIVES TOO DIFFICULT A. B. C.'S LISA STARK ON THE BALANCE IT WAS A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON WHO SIGNED OSHA INTO LAW PROMISING NEW PROTECTION FOR AMERICAN WORKERS TWENTY FIVE YEARS LATER IT IS REPUBLICANS WHO ARE WAGING THE ASSAULT AGAINST OSHA CLAIMING IT IS A BULLYING BUREAUCRACY THAT HARASSES EMPLOYERS WITH PETTY RULES HALF OF THE CITATIONS THEY COME OUT WITH ARE FOR PAPERWORK NOW IN THE LONG RUN DON'T TELL ME THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PROMOTE HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR WORKERS SOUTH BEND ROOFING CONTRACTOR BILL STEINMETZ SAYS OSHA FORCES HIS COMPANY TO FOLLOW VOLUMES OF MANDATES AND ONCE FINED HIM TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR NOT HAVING A PIECE OF PAPER AT A JOB SITE EXPLAINING THE HAZARDS OF CAULKING MATERIAL OSHA IS TERRIBLY CONCERNED WITH THE PROCESS OF HOW THESE STANDARDS WORK AND THEY'RE NOT AS CONCERNED WITH THE IMPACT OF WHETHER THEY'RE ACTUALLY SAVING LIVES BUT IN INDUSTRIES WHERE OSHA HAS FOCUSED ITS INSPECTIONS DEATH RATES HAVE DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY IN CONSTRUCTION DOWN SEVENTY EIGHT PERCENT MINING SEVENTY THREE PERCENT GRAIN HANDLING FIFTY EIGHT PERCENT AND OSHA SAYS IT IS CHANGING THE WAY IT OPERATES INSPECTORS ARE NO LONGER JUDGED BY HOW MANY CITATIONS THEY ISSUE AND BUSINESSES ARE GIVEN A CHANCE TO BE PARTNERS RATHER THAN PUNISHED THERE ARE GOING TO BE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR SERIOUS VIOLATORS IF EMPLOYERS WANT TO TAKE A COOPERATIVE APPROACH WITH US THE HAND IS OUT FOR EXAMPLE THIS MARYLAND SHEET METAL PLANT WAS ALLOWED TO INSTALL ITS OWN SAFETY GEAR RATHER THAN MORE EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT RECOMMENDED BY THE GOVERNMENT I WASN'T INTERESTED IN SPENDING THAT MONEY I THOUGHT THAT IF WE MET MAYBE WE COULD RESOLVE IT AND WE DID BY INCREASING COOPERATION WITH BUSINESS AND BACKING OFF PAPERWORK VIOLATIONS OSHA HAS MANAGED TO STAVE OFF ITS CRITICS DESPITE THE ATTACKS ON CAPITOL HILL THE AGENCY HAS SURVIVED WITH BUDGET CUTS OF JUST TWO PERCENT LISA STARK A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON SOME OF THE OTHER NEWS NOW IN NEW MEXICO TODAY FIREFIGHTERS ARE HOPING THAT BY LIGHTING A BACKFIRE THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP A LARGE BRUSHFIRE FROM REACHING THE LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY THAT'S WHERE THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB WAS BUILT THE FIRE HAS DESTROYED OVER FIFTEEN THOUSAND ACRES IT HAS ALREADY BURNED THROUGH SOME ANCIENT INDIAN RUINS ONE OF THE LEADING FIGURES IN THE AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IS STILL MISSING WILLIAM COLBY THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE C. I. A. DISAPPEARED FROM HIS COUNTRY HOME ON THE POTOMAC RIVER SOUTH OF WASHINGTON OVER THE WEEKEND OFFICIALS NOW BELIEVE THAT HE HAD A BOATING ACCIDENT AND HAS DROWNED A. B. C.'S JOHN MCWETHY DIVERS SPENT ALL DAY SEARCHING FOR COLBY'S BODY NEIGHBORS WHO REPORTED HIM MISSING SAID THEY FOUND DIRTY DISHES IN THE SINK OF HIS WEEKEND HOME HIS RADIO AND COMPUTER WERE ON HIS OVERTURNED CANOE WAS FOUND IN THE WATER NEARBY VERY VERY QUALIFIED SAILOR HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING HE KNOWS A LOT ABOUT THE SEA AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO UNUSUAL TO FIND OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO HIM THERE'S NO INDICATION THAT ANYTHING IS OUT OF THE ORDINARY THAT WOULD POINT TOWARDS FOUL PLAY OR ANY TYPE OF CRIME OR ANYTHING AT ALL LIKE THAT THE MAN WHO VANISHED THIS WEEKEND SPENT A LIFETIME AS A SPY PARACHUTING BEHIND ENEMY LINES DURING WORLD WAR TWO AND THEN TAKING ASSIGNMENTS IN EUROPE AND LATER VIETNAM WHERE HE WAS C. I. A. STATION CHIEF COLBY BECAME DIRECTOR OF THE C. I. A. IN THE MID NINETEEN SEVENTY'S HE WAS BOTH A REFORMER AND A WHISTLEBLOWER DEEPLY DIVIDING THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HE TESTIFIED BEFORE A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATING COMMITTEE ABOUT C. I. A. DIRTY TRICKS CONFIRMING ATTEMPTS TO ASSASSINATE CUBAN LEADER FIDEL CASTRO PLUS NUMEROUS OPERATIONS THAT VIOLATED U. S. LAW SUCH AS OPENING MAIL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS PHONE TAPS AND BREAK INS EARLIER THIS YEAR COLBY LENT HIS NAME AND HIS IMAGE TO A C. D. ROM COMPUTER GAME CALLED SPY CRAFT HE WAS AN AUTHOR A LAWYER AN OUTDOORSMAN WHO FRIENDS SAY WAS MOST AT PEACE WHEN ON THE WATER JOHN MCWETHY A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON WE'LL BE BACK IN JUST A MOMENT FINALLY THIS EVENING THE BARGAIN THAT MAY BE COSTING TAXPAYERS A BUNDLE AS THEY TRY TO DOWNSIZE THE MILITARY IT'S PART OF OUR WEEKLY REPORT ON HOW THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS YOUR MONEY AND ONCE AGAIN IT CONCERNS THE PENTAGON IT IS ONE OF THOSE PROGRAMS THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOT EVERYONE HAS PAID A GREAT DEAL OF ATTENTION TO IT IT'S TURNING OUT THAT IT COULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE HERE'S A. B. C.'S JOHN MARTIN EVERY DAY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SHOPPERS DESCEND ON THE THREE HUNDRED ELEVEN COMMISSARIES RUN BY THE PENTAGON AROUND THE WORLD PRICES HERE ARE AS MUCH AS TWENTY FIVE PERCENT LOWER THAN CIVILIAN STORES THE COMMISSARIES CHARGE LESS BECAUSE THEY PAY NO STATE OR LOCAL SALES TAXES AND RECEIVE A SUBSIDY OF NEARLY ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FROM CONGRESS RIGHT NOW THREE MILLION PEOPLE ARE ELIGIBLE TO SHOP HERE ACTIVE DUTY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES THEIR DEPENDENTS AND RETIREES THE COMMISSARIES WERE CREATED TO HELP FAMILIES ON MODEST MILITARY SALARIES MAKE ENDS MEET BUT AS THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT DOWNSIZES ACTIVE DUTY PERSONNEL WILL DECLINE SO TO KEEP THE COMMISSARIES OPEN THE PENTAGON IS CONSIDERING A PLAN FOR UNLIMITED VISITS BY TWO MILLION MORE SHOPPERS MEMBERS OF THE RESERVES THEIR DEPENDENTS AND RETIRED RESERVISTS WHO CAN NOW VISIT HERE ONLY TWELVE TIMES A YEAR THIS CREATES A PROBLEM THE EXPANSION WILL COST PERHAPS TWO HUNDRED FORTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN ADDED OPERATING EXPENSES YET WIND UP HELPING MANY RESERVISTS WHO CAN AFFORD TO SHOP ELSEWHERE TAKE AIR FORCE RESERVIST DICK EDMUNDS HE'S AN AIRLINE PILOT AND BUSINESS MAN WHO SHOPS HERE FOR ONLY ONE REASON THE PRICES ARE BETTER THE PENTAGON SAYS ANOTHER ADVANTAGE OF EXPANDING THE PRIVILEGE FOR RESERVISTS IS THAT IT WILL MAKE MILITARY SERVICE MORE ATTRACTIVE WE SIMPLY TRY TO PROVIDE A TOTAL PART OF THE MILITARY'S COMPENSATION PACKAGE IN THE FORM OF LOW COST GROCERIES BUT CIVILIAN GROCERS WHO SEE THIS AS AN UNFAIR COMPETITION RIDICULE THE IDEA THAT IT WILL MAKE MILITARY SERVICE MORE ATTRACTIVE I'LL BELIEVE THAT'S IMPORTANT WHEN I SEE THE U. S. MILITARY WITH RECRUITING POSTERS THAT SAY JOIN THE ARMY IT'S A GREAT WAY TO SAVE MONEY ON YOUR GROCERIES BUT THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE HAS ANOTHER IDEA PHASE OUT THE SUBSIDIES FORCE THE COMMISSARIES TO COMPETE AGAINST LOCAL STORES OR CLOSE EVEN IF CONGRESS MADE DIRECT CASH PAYMENTS TO MILITARY SHOPPERS IN HIGH COST AREAS THE BUDGET OFFICE SAYS THIS COULD SAVE OVER FOUR YEARS ONE POINT SIX BILLION DOLLARS THAT'S YOUR MONEY JOHN MARTIN A. B. C. NEWS WASHINGTON AND THAT'S OUR REPORT ON WORLD NEWS TONIGHT LATER THIS EVENING NIGHTLINE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES IS GOING TO BE TED KOPPEL'S GUEST I'M PETER JENNINGS I'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW HAVE A GOOD EVENING AND GOOD NIGHT AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT ON VIDEOTAPE IT'S NOT A FEATURE FILM AND IT'S NOT FICTION PRESIDENT CLINTON TESTIFIED FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS YESTERDAY IN THE ARKANSAS WHITEWATER TRIAL TO ACCOMMODATE HIS HEAD OF STATE SCHEDULE AND SECURITY CONCERNS THE PRESIDENT WAS PERMITTED TO GIVE TESTIMONY FROM THE COMFORT OF THE WHITE HOUSE VIA VIDEOTAPE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS FOR JIM AND SUSAN MCDOUGAL WANTED THE PRESIDENT TO REFUTE DAVID HALE'S ALLEGATION THAT CLINTON PRESSURED HIM TO MAKE AN IMPROPER LOAN THE PROSECUTION TOOK ABOUT FOUR TIMES AS LONG TO ASK ITS QUESTIONS AS WE TOOK ON DIRECT AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ABOUT ALL I CAN TELL YOU EXCEPT THAT I'M VERY VERY SATISFIED WITH THE PROCEEDINGS TODAY THE VIDEOTAPED QUESTIONING HAS BEEN ORDERED SEALED FOR AT LEAST THIRTY DAYS MAKING THE NEXT QUESTION ON EVERYONE'S MIND WHETHER THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL EVER GET A SCREENING I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE PRESS SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO MY TESTIMONY BUT THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE ABUSED IN ANY WAY THIS IS BURDEN OF PROOF WITH ROGER COSSACK AND GRETA VAN SUSTEREN WELCOME TO BURDEN OF PROOF PRESIDENT CLINTON WAS QUESTIONED YESTERDAY FOR SEVERAL HOURS IN THE WHITE HOUSE MAP ROOM THE VIDEOTAPED TESTIMONY IS EXPECTED TO BE USED IN THE WHITEWATER TRIAL OF SUSAN AND JIM MCDOUGAL AND GOVERNOR JIM GUY TUCKER THE PRESIDENT'S TESTIMONY WAS VIDEOTAPED WITH A SCRAMBLED SATELLITE TRANSMISSION TO THE JUDGE IN ARKANSAS WHO WAS ACTUALLY PRESIDING OVER THE TRIAL TODAY WE'LL DISCUSS THE PRESIDENT'S TESTIMONY AND THE LATEST IN THE WHITEWATER CONTROVERSY OUR PANEL INCLUDES WHITEWATER COMMITTEE MINORITY COUNSEL RICHARD BEN VENISTE FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL BOYDEN GRAY AND FORMER REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE COUNSEL JAN BARAN BUT FIRST LET'S TALK TO C. N. N. CORRESPONDENT BOB FRANKEN WHO HAS BEEN COVERING THE TRIAL BOB HOW'S THE DEPOSITION GOING HOW MANY LAWYERS FACED THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY THERE WERE A GAGGLE OF LAWYERS AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WERE THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE CLIENTS AS YOU SAID PLUS SIX FROM THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL'S OFFICE AND THEIR SUPPORT TEAM F. B. I. AGENTS PARALEGALS ET CETERA ET CETERA ET CETERA PROBABLY A COUPLE OF DOZEN PEOPLE IN THE ROOM ALL FOCUSED ON THE PRESIDENT AS WAS THAT VIDEOTAPE CAMERA THERE IS A STRICT ORDER OF SECRECY BY THE JUDGE HOWEVER WE WERE TOLD BY SOURCES IN THE ROOM THAT THE PRESIDENT DID IN FACT REPEAT HIS CATEGORICAL DENIALS OF THE CHARGES THAT DAVID HALE HAS MADE THAT HE WAS IMPLICATED IN THE ILLEGAL LOANS THE DEFENSE SIDE WAS IN FACT GENUINELY EUPHORIC OVER THE WAY THAT IT HAD GONE THEY ARE SAYING NOW THAT THEY FEEL THEY WILL BE VERY EFFECTIVE IN USING THE PRESIDENT'S TESTIMONY TO REPUDIATE WHAT DAVID HALE SAID SO IT BEGS THE QUESTION WHY THEN IS THE WHITE HOUSE SO INTERESTED IN KEEPING THE TAPE SUPPRESSED AT ANY RATE THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY INFORMATION IS VERY SLIM WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS IT'S PLAYED BY THE DEFENSE IN FRONT OF THE JURORS IN LITTLE ROCK AT A TIME T. B. A. IT WILL BE UP TO THE DEFENSE CERTAINLY NOT THIS WEEK PERHAPS NEXT WEEK THEN COMES THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE TAPE WILL BE SHOWN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT OF COURSE IS STILL AN OPEN QUESTION BOB TELL ME HOW LONG WAS THE EXAMINATION BY THE DEFENSE IF YOU KNOW AND HOW LONG WAS THE CROSS EXAMINATION BY THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL WELL WHAT HAPPENED APPARENTLY FIRST OF ALL IT ALL LASTED THE ACTUAL QUESTIONING AND ANSWERING WENT ABOUT THREE AND A HALF HOURS THE REST WAS FOR BREAKS OF VARIOUS KINDS IN THIS FOUR AND A HALF HOUR SESSION APPARENTLY THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WHO WERE DOING DIRECT WENT LESS THAN AN HOUR I'M HEARING ABOUT FORTY FIVE MINUTES THE REST OF THE TIME WAS DONE BY THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL'S PROSECUTORS SO THAT WOULD HAVE MEANT THAT THEY WENT ABOUT TWO AND A HALF HOURS VERY FEW DETAILS ABOUT WHO ASKED WHAT AGAIN THE KEY QUESTION HERE WAS DAVID HALE WELL YOU KNOW IT'S AN INTERESTING THING IS THE KEY QUESTION IS DAVID HALE BUT YOU'D THINK THAT WOULD TAKE LIKE FIVE MINUTES YOU KNOW YOU KNOW DO YOU HAVE ANY DID DAVID HALE ACTUALLY YOU KNOW ENGAGE IN SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL SHENANIGANS WITH YOU YES OR NO AND PRESUMABLY THE PRESIDENT SAID NO I MEAN WHAT ELSE COULD THEY GO INTO I MEAN THAT IS THE CENTER OF IT ISN'T IT BOB GRETA YOU'RE A TRIAL ATTORNEY YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT A SIMPLE THIRTY SECOND SPOT IN TELEVISION CAN TAKE DAYS IN A TRIAL AND I WELL YOU KNOW WE GET PAID BY THE WORD IN TRIALS I BELIEVE THAT'S CALLED BILLABLE HOURS RICHARD WHAT I THINK THEY'VE TRIED TO DO IN THIS CASE IS VERY CLEARLY THEY'VE TRIED TO MAKE IT INTO A CONTEST BETWEEN THIS JURY OF WHO DO YOU BELIEVE DAVID HALE OR BILL CLINTON THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND I WOULD THINK IN SOME WAYS THAT'S KIND OF DANGEROUS FOR THE PRESIDENT WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY REJECT HIM AND THE JURY SAYS YOU KNOW I DIDN'T BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT WELL DAVID HALE'S TESTIMONY AND HIS CREDIBILITY HAS BEEN PRETTY WELL SHREDDED IN THE COURSE OF THIS TRIAL AND I THINK A THE DEFENSE STRATEGY IS VERY EFFECTIVE THEY'D RATHER HAVE DAVID HALE VERSUS BILL CLINTON BE THE ISSUE THAT THE JURY DECIDES ON IN VOTING YES OR NO ON CONVICTIONS OF THEIR CLIENTS I THINK THAT IF THERE ARE CONVICTIONS IT WILL BE IN SPITE OF DAVID HALE'S ALLEGATIONS RATHER THAN BECAUSE OF THEM HE'S CHANGED HIS STORY SO MANY DIFFERENT TIMES WHEN HE FIRST TALKED ABOUT IT THERE WAS NO IMPLICATION OF THE PRESIDENT PRESSURING MR. CLINTON THAT'S NOT IN THE INDICTMENT IT WASN'T IN THE GRAND JURY IT IS AN AFTERTHOUGHT AN EMBELLISHMENT AND THE PROSECUTION HAS FALLEN INTO THE TRAP IN MY VIEW OF TREATING THIS AS A BIG ISSUE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T RESIST THE TITILLATION OF THE PRESIDENT'S NAME BEING INVOLVED I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THE PRESIDENT CLEANED THEIR CLOCK IN HIS TESTIMONY BOYDEN IS THIS A REAL PROBLEM FOR THE PRESIDENT TESTIFYING I THINK IT'S A POLITICAL PROBLEM NOT A LEGAL ONE WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE IS THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR INVOLVED WITH AN S. AND L. THAT FAILED AND IT FOLLOWS A PATTERN THAT TYPIFIED THE S. AND L. CRISIS THAT WAS THE BIGGEST FINANCIAL MOST COSTLY FINANCIAL SCANDAL FOR THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER IN OUR HISTORY AND IT'S NOT THAT THERE WAS NECESSARILY ANYTHING CRIMINAL THERE BUT THE SUBJECT MATTER WAS SUMMED UP IN YOUR OWN REPORTER'S BOOK BROOKS JACKSON IN A BOOK CALLED HONEST GRANT AND HOW THE THERE WAS A GRANT OF REGULATORY INDULGENCES TO THE S. AND L. INDUSTRY IN RETURN FOR CAMPAIGN FUNDS NOTHING ABJECTLY ILLEGAL IN THAT NECESSARILY BUT IT'S NOT A PRETTY PICTURE AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THIS THING GETTING OUT THAT IS THE TRANSCRIPT BEING MADE PUBLIC BECAUSE IT'S THE LARGER POLITICAL CONNECTION WITH THIS CRISIS O. K. LET'S ASSUME THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL CASE BUT NEVERTHELESS IT'S IN THE CONTEXT OF A CRIMINAL TRIAL NOW YOU GO TO A WITNESS WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY ANOTHER WITNESS THE GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS THE GOVERNMENT'S STAR WITNESS OF BEING CORRUPT OUR PRESIDENT WOULD ANYBODY ADVISE HIM JAN WOULD YOU ADVISE HIM TO TAKE THE FIFTH AMENDMENT NUMBER FIRST OF ALL PRESIDENT CLINTON IS NOT A DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE HE'S A WITNESS WELL HE'S NOT A DEFENDANT BUT A MAN HAS SAID THAT HE COMMITTED ILLEGAL ACTS THE GOVERNMENT THE GOVERNMENT'S STAR WITNESS WHO THEY CHOSE TO PUT ON THAT JURY AND TALK TO THE JURY IN LITTLE ROCK ARKANSAS SAYS THAT HE'S COMMITTED CRIMINAL ACTS WELL THE CRITICAL ISSUE'S GOING TO BE CREDIBILITY AND IT'S A QUESTION OF WHO IS CREDIBLE AND THIS IS WHAT THE JURY IS GOING TO DECIDE DO DOES THE JURY BELIEVE JUDGE HALE THE PRINCIPAL WITNESS WHO IS SOMEONE WHO HAS PLED GUILTY TO A CRIME AND IS NOW TESTIFYING AFTER HAVING HAD PLED GUILTY AND HAS BEEN IMPEACHED IN TERMS OF ADMITTING THAT HE HAS MADE LIES AND MADE STATEMENTS IN THE PAST OR DO YOU BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN THIS CASE AND THE OTHER WITNESSES THESE ARE NOT THE ONLY TWO WITNESSES IN THE CASE THAT ARE GOING TO BE PERHAPS THE DEFENDANTS ARE GOING TO BE PERHAPS CORROBORATING WITNESSES WELL ROGER ROGER AS A MATTER OF FACT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT HERE IT IS TRUE THE PRESIDENT IS NOT A DEFENDANT IN THIS TRIAL BUT NUMBER ONE THIS ENTIRE WHITEWATER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL INVESTIGATION IS BECAUSE OF ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE PRESIDENT IT IS FAIR TO SAY I THINK THAT THIS TRIAL IS ALMOST A METAPHOR FOR THE FATE OF THE INVESTIGATION THAT IS TO SAY THAT THE KEY ACCUSER IN THIS TRIAL IS THE KEY ACCUSER AGAINST PRESIDENT CLINTON IF THE JURY IN THIS TRIAL BELIEVES THIS ACCUSER HE GAINS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CREDIBILITY FOR THE INVESTIGATION WELL BOB IT'S FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION BOB TELL ME THIS THOUGH THAT BECAUSE WE HAPPEN TO HAVE ONE OF THE THOSE GENTLEMAN RIGHT HERE SO RICHARD BEN VENISTE ARE YOU GOING TO SUBPOENA DAVID HALE TO THE COMMITTEE IN FRONT OF THE SENATE DEFINITELY WE WILL SUBPOENA DAVID HALE WHETHER HE WILL SHOW UP AND TESTIFY IS ANOTHER QUESTION WHETHER AFTER SPENDING NINE DAYS ON THE WITNESS STAND IN LITTLE ROCK HE WILL SUDDENLY CLAIM THAT HE'S GOT SOME PRIVILEGE TO PREVENT HIM FROM COMING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE REMAINS TO BE SEEN BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING AN ACCOMPLISHED LIAR AND JUST A LIAR OUT TO HELP ONE'S SELF IN PLEA BARGAINING I THINK DAVID HALE IS NOT SO ACCOMPLISHED A LIAR AS HIS VARIOUS VERSIONS OF EVENTS WILL NOT SINK HIM THE CENTRAL ISSUE IS WHETHER PRESIDENT CLINTON PRESSURED DAVID HALE NOT EVEN THE PROSECUTION'S THEORY EMBRACES SUCH A NOTION THERE WAS BUT NO BUT THE THING IS THOUGH BOB RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE PRESIDENT ALLEGATIONS MAY HURT HIM POLITICALLY BUT DOES ANYONE CORROBORATE HALE'S STATEMENTS SO FAR WELL IT'S CIRCUMSTANTIAL REALLY WHAT THE PROSECUTION HAS DONE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS TO REINFORCE THE HALE TESTIMONY WITH A LOT OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE AND A LOT OF OTHER EVIDENCE THAT REALLY IMPLICATES THE DEFENDANTS IN THIS TRIAL BUT I SAY AGAIN EVERYTHING IN THIS TRIAL IS A REFLECTION ON THE POLITICAL CHARGES AGAINST THE PRESIDENT I THINK EVERYBODY HERE IS RIGHT THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL TRIAL AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE SO EVEN I THINK BOB WOULD AGREE THAT THERE'S NOT A SHRED OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OR OTHER EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS DAVID HALE'S CONTENTION MADE NOW LATE IN THE GAME AFTER HE INITIALLY GAVE INTERVIEWS TO C. N. N. AMONG OTHERS WHERE HE SAID NOTHING ABOUT ANY PRESSURE FROM PRESIDENT CLINTON THAT SO WE'VE GOT ALLE CAME LATER WE HAVE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE PRESIDENT BUT NO CORROBORATION OF DAVID HALE AND WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK ACCORDING TO BEN VENISTE ACCORDING TO BEN VENISTE AND APPARENTLY BOB FRANKEN ARE HILLARY CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ON THE ROSE LAW FIRM BILLING RECORDS AND WHAT COULD THAT MEAN FOR THE FIRST LADY TODAY NEWSWEEK IS REPORTING THAT THE F. B. I. HAS FOUND HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ON ROSE LAW FIRM BILLING RECORDS THESE ARE THE RECORDS THAT DOCUMENT MRS. CLINTON'S LEGAL WORK FOR THE MADISON SAVINGS AND LOAN AND THE RECORDS THAT WERE MISSING FOR TWO YEARS AND THEN DISCOVERED IN THE CLINTON'S PRIVATE QUARTERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE BOYDEN IS IT REALLY A PROBLEM IF THIS IS TRUE THAT MRS. CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ARE ON THESE DOCUMENTS IS THAT REALLY A PROBLEM WELL THEY WERE HER BILLING RECORDS ONE WOULD EXPECT TO FIND HER FINGERPRINTS ON THEM I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS IN ITSELF VERY MUCH BASED ON WHAT I KNOW BUT THE LARGER QUESTION HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED WHICH IS TO SAY WHERE DID THOSE RECORDS COME FROM HOW DID THEY JUST APPEAR IN THAT ROOM AND I THINK THAT'S AN ENDURING MYSTERY WHICH WILL CONTINUE TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THIS CASE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE UNTIL IT'S SOLVED WELL JAN DO YOU THINK IT'S JUST SORT OF THE A SITUATION WHERE THE MEDIA SORT OF HAS SEIZED UPON SOMETHING THE FACT THAT HER FINGERPRINTS ARE ON THERE THAT THERE MUST BE SOMETHING SINISTER I MEAN WELL THIS JUST CAME OUT TODAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MEDIA SEIZED ON I MEAN IS THIS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING JAN WELL NINETY PERCENT OF POLITICS IS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING AND HERE WE HAVE THE CONFLUENCE OF A LEGAL PROCESS IN POLITICS AND WE'RE TRYING TO SORT OUT WHAT'S SIGNIFICANT WHAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM WITH FINGERPRINTS IS THAT THEY CAN BE LATENT FOR UP TO TWENTY YEARS AND BE PRODUCED FROM DOCUMENTS THROUGH VARIOUS FINGERPRINTING RECOVERY TECHNIQUES AND SO THE QUESTION HERE ISN'T YOU KNOW IS IT SURPRISING THAT MRS. CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ARE ON THESE DOCUMENTS THE QUESTION IS THAT THEY DO DEMONSTRATE THAT SHE PHYSICALLY HAD THEM AT SOME TIME SHE HAS NOT MADE ANY PUBLIC STATEMENT OR TESTIMONY REGARDING THAT WELL WHAT ABOUT IF HER FINGERPRINTS ARE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE THAN THE OTHER FINGERPRINTS ON THERE WOULD THAT SUGGEST THAT HERS ARE SOMEHOW NEWER THAN THE OTHERS I DON'T THINK OUR TECHNOLOGY HAS ADVANCED TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN DISCRIMINATE RICHARD IN ANOTHER LIFE I USED TO TRY CASES AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING WHILE WE CAN ALL SIT HERE AND SAY FINGERPRINTS YOU KNOW THEY DON'T MEAN ANYTHING THEY MEAN USUALLY MEAN A USUALLY A GREAT DEAL WITH JURIES WHEN I PROSECUTED OR DEFENDED WELL AND IF MY CLIENT'S FINGERPRINTS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WERE ON THEM THE JURORS USUALLY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT A LOT MORE THAN THEY KNEW WHAT D. N. A. MEANT I FIND MYSELF IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH MY FRIEND BOYDEN HERE OF COURSE HER FINGERPRINTS ARE LIKELY TO BE ON THEM THEY WERE HER BILLING RECORDS THE TESTIMONY WAS THAT DURING THE NINETEEN NINETY TWO CAMPAIGN THEY REVIEWED ALL OF THESE RECORDS TO RESPOND TO PRESS INQUIRIES ABOUT THE UNDERLYING SUBJECT MATTER WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND AGAIN AS WE TALK ABOUT THE UNCOVER UP THE PRODUCTION OF USEFUL INFORMATION THAT CORROBORATES AND CONFIRMS THAT WHICH MRS. CLINTON HAD PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED TO THAT THIS WAS COMPLETELY INNOCUOUS IN TERMS OF THE ROSE LAW FIRM'S REPRESENTATION THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY THAT SHE SPENT ON IT ALL RIGHT BOB ALL RIGHT BOB YOU TELL US ABOUT IT EXCUSE ME IT'S FACT CHECK TIME YOU'VE HEARD FROM THE FIRST OF ALL JAN IS FIRST OF ALL JAN IS BEING A LITTLE BIT GENEROUS TO POLITICS I THINK WITH HIS ASSESSMENT THERE BUT BEYOND THAT THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS RAISED IN THE BILLING RECORDS ABOUT HER REPRESENTATION OF MADISON SAVINGS AND LOAN ONE OF THE CORE ISSUES HERE AND WHETHER IN FACT THAT BUSINESS WAS BROUGHT INTO THE LAW FIRM TO HELP HER FINANCIALLY BROUGHT IN BY HER WHITEWATER PARTNER THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED YET THERE OH BOB WE'VE HAD WEEKS AND WEEKS OF HEARINGS ON THESE ISSUES YES AND YOU HAVEN'T AND YOU HAVEN'T RESOLVED THE QUESTION YET WHICH MAYBE NOT FOR YOU BOB BUT IT'S ALL OUT THERE THOUGH WELL I SUSPECT IF THE ADVOCATES I SUSPECT THAT IF THE ADVOCATES HAD A PREDISPOSITION THEY WOULD HAVE IT RESOLVED BUT LET ME GO ON JUST A LITTLE BIT THIS IS ABOUT PERCEPTION AND YOU CAN DRAW CONCLUSIONS FROM THOSE BILLING RECORDS TO SUPPORT EITHER SIDE ALSO IT MUST BE POINTED OUT THERE ARE TWO WHITEWATER STORIES HERE THERE IS THE ARKANSAS STORY WHICH IS VERY ARCANE VERY TEDIOUS YOU HAVEN'T LIVED UNTIL YOU'VE SAT THROUGH A HEARING ABOUT THAT AND THERE IS NOW THE WASHINGTON WHITEWATER AND THAT QUESTION IS WAS THERE A COVER UP AND IF SO DID THAT COVER UP EXTEND INTO CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR BUT AND ISN'T THAT THE POINT WHEN YOU FIND WHEN SUDDENLY THERE'S A STORY IN NEWSWEEK THAT NEWSWEEK REPORTS THAT THE FINGERPRINTS WERE FOUND ISN'T IT THE KIND OF THING THAT MAKES PEOPLE GO WELL YOU KNOW ISN'T DOESN'T THAT SOUND FUNNY THAT HER FINGERPRINTS ARE ON THERE AND BUT THEY'RE HER RECORDS I MEAN WHAT DO YOU EXPECT I MEAN AND THEY'VE BEEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AT SOME POINT WHERE WERE THOSE RECORDS FOR TWO YEARS WHERE WERE THEY HOW DID THEY JUST SHOW UP ON THAT TABLE AND THAT'S WHAT RAISES ALL THE QUESTIONS AND UNTIL THOSE QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WONDER BUT THE POINT NO BUT THERE'S NOTHING EVEN IN THE RECORDS THAT'S SIGNIFICANT THAT'S WHAT I'VE NEVER OH YES OH YES THE RECORDS DO CONTAIN SIGNIFICANT PEOPLE ARGUE ABOUT HOW TO INTERPRET WHAT THOSE RECORDS SAY BUT THEY ARE IMPORTANT SIX WAYS FROM SUNDAY AND ALL RIGHT NOW I HAVE JUST ONE SECOND PRESIDENT CLINTON MAY HAVE BEEN YESTERDAY'S STAR WITNESS ON THE STAND BUT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL KENNETH STARR HAS ALSO BEEN IN THE HOT SEAT THAT TOPIC WHEN WE COME BACK WHITEWATER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL KENNETH STARR IS A FORMER APPEALS COURT JUDGE AND SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION THAT'S THE LAWYER WHO ARGUES THE ADMINISTRATION'S POSITIONS IN CASES BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT NOW HE IS A MEMBER OF A PROMINENT WASHINGTON LAW FIRM AND LIKE SIXTEEN OF THE SEVENTEEN INDEPENDENT COUNSELS BEFORE HIM HAS CONTINUED IN THAT FIRM WHILE SERVING IN THE ROLE OF SPECIAL PROSECUTOR NOW STARR'S PRIVATE LAW FIRM CASES ESPECIALLY HIS REPRESENTATION OF THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY HAS LED SOME TO ACCUSE HIM OF HAVING A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BUT BEFORE WE LOOK AT THIS ISSUE I WANT VIEWERS TO KNOW THAT MY HUSBAND JOHN COALE IS ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS OPPOSING STARR IN THE TOBACCO CASE ALL RIGHT RICHARD BEN VENISTE DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR ADVERSARY IN MANY WAYS KENNETH STARR IS HAVING A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BY THE FACT THAT HE IS REPRESENTING OTHER INDUSTRIES SOME OF WHOM HAVE TAKEN ACTIVE ANTI ADMINISTRATION POSITIONS AS WELL AS BEING THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WELL FIRST OF ALL ROGER KENNETH STARR IS NOT MY ADVERSARY YOU KNOW I USE THAT IN THE BROAD SENSE I THINK WE COULD ALL AGREE THAT PERHAPS THERE'S SOME ADVERSARIAL FEELINGS THERE WELL HERE'S HERE'S MY TAKE ON THAT ROGER AND MAYBE THERE'S A BRIDGE BETWEEN THIS RECENT REVELATION ABOUT MRS. CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ON THE RECORDS ON THE BILLING RECORDS BECAUSE THE ONLY THING NOTABLE ABOUT THAT I THINK AS WE ALL AGREE IT'S EXPECTED THAT HER FINGERPRINTS WOULD BE ON HER RECORDS BUT BEYOND THAT THERE'S A LEAK AND THAT LEAK CAME FROM EITHER THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL'S OFFICE OR THE F. B. I. OR SOMEONE WORKING WITH THEM SO I THINK THAT WELL THAT'S WHAT THAT'S TROUBLESOME CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR NOT RICHARD WELL I THINK THE R. T. C. ISSUE WAS SURPRISING TO ME AND I THINK THAT IS MUCH MORE TROUBLESOME IN TERMS OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND I'D LIKE TO GET BOYDEN'S VIEW ABOUT THAT BOYDEN CONFLICT OF INTEREST LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT THE R. T. C. PROBLEM IS AT THE TIME THAT KENNETH STARR UNDERTOOK THE ASSIGNMENT REPLACING FISKE THERE WAS NO REVELATION THAT HE AND HIS FIRM TO BE MORE PRECISE WERE AT THAT TIME BEING SUED BY THE R. T. C. IN CONNECTION WITH A CLAIM OF ALL RIGHT LET ME TAKE KEN STARR'S POSITION FOR A SECOND IS THAT EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT ALL HIS WORK THEY KNEW ABOUT HIS WORK IN THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY THEY KNEW ALL HIS CONNECTIONS BEFORE HE WAS EVEN NAMED I MEAN WHY NOW OH I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE I THINK CLEARLY WE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE R. T. C. SITUATION AND I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT THE R. T. C. DID INTERNALLY WHETHER THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS A CONFLICT AMONG THEIR PEOPLE IN TERMS OF SUING MR. STARR'S FIRM AND THEN RESPONDING TO MR. STARR'S INQUIRY I THINK EVERYBODY CAN AGREE THAT IF MR. STARR HAD SIMPLY DIVORCED HIMSELF FROM THESE ISSUES THAT THINGS WOULD PROVIDE MUCH MORE CONFIDENCE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BOYDEN CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR NOT NO I DON'T THINK SO I DON'T THINK THE R. T. C. HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND MAYBE HIS MAYBE THE PARTNER WHO WAS WORKING ON IT SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIM BUT HE HAD HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE I DON'T SEE WHERE THE CON BUT THE LARGER STORY IS THIS TOBACCO REPRESENTATION OF THESE BLACK CHILDREN IN MILWAUKEE I FIND IT ALMOST ABSURD TO CALL THAT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HE ALSO REPRESENTS GENERAL MOTORS ROGER SMITH THEIR CHAIRMAN SAT NEXT TO MRS. CLINTON AT A YEAH BUT I MEAN WITH SO MANY LAWYERS IN THIS COUNTRY GRETA GRETA THERE'S YEAH BOB THERE'S A LARGER ISSUE HERE TOO LET US NOT FORGET HOW KEN STARR WAS APPOINTED HE WAS APPOINTED BECAUSE THERE WAS A FEELING THAT THERE WAS A PERCEPTION THAT HIS PREDECESSOR BOB FISKE HAD SOME SORT OF POLITICAL PROBLEMS SO NOW YOU APPOINT KEN STARR TO A POSITION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOVE PARTISANSHIP IT'S THE REASON THERE IS THIS POSITION AND NOW HE IS BEING ACCUSED OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST OF PARTISAN INTERESTS ALL ALL RIGHT BOB LET ME INTERRUPT YOU LET ME GIVE BOYDEN A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THAT HE IS NOT A PARTISAN LAWYER HE DOES NOT TAKE PART IN POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS OF ANY BUT HE WAS GOING TO WRITE A BRIEF DIR AN AMICUS BRIEF DIRECT HE WAS GOING TO RUN FOR SENATE I MEAN NOW BOYDEN I MEAN THERE ARE THIS IS A VERY COMPELLING ARGUMENT WHY WE SHOULD HAVE PROFESSIONAL CAREER PROSECUTORS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HANDLING THESE TYPES OF INVESTIGATIONS AND THESE TYPES OF TRIALS AND EVER SINCE WE CREATED THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN GET POLITICS OUT OF IT IS THERE JAN YOU CAN'T TAKE POLITICS OUT OF IT AND IF WE'VE DECIDED AS A POLICY MATTER TO ENGAGE IN HIRING INDEPENDENT COUNSELS WHO HAVE TO BY DEFINITION COME FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR WE'RE GOING TO BASICALLY INVITE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE THESE TYPES OF POTENTIAL PROBLEMS O. K. WITH THAT JAN YOU'VE GOT MR. STARR'S PROBLEM IS THE LAST WORD THANK YOU VERY MUCH THANKS TO OUR PANELISTS TODAY THE LAST TIME FORMER L. A. P. D. DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN WAS QUESTIONED HE TOOK THE FIFTH AMENDMENT AND PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER MARCUS ALLEN NEVER EVEN HAD TO TESTIFY IN THE CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST O. J. SIMPSON NOW THEY'RE BOTH BEING QUESTIONED FUHRMAN'S DEPOSITION WAS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN AN HOUR AGO IN IDAHO AND MARCUS ALLEN'S NEXT MONTH IN KANSAS CITY WILL THEY TALK WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT ON BURDEN OF PROOF TOMORROW LETTERS P. O. BOX SEVEN HUNDRED FORTY THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED SIXTY SIX ATLANTA G. A. THREE OH THREE SEVEN FOUR THREE FIVE SEVEN EIGHT FAX FOUR OH FOUR SIX EIGHT ONE THREE FIVE SEVEN EIGHT A WEEK AFTER BEING REBUFFED BY DONOR COUNTRIES AT THE I. M. F. WORLD BANK MEETING DEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE BACK SEEKING DEBT RELIEF THE WORLD'S POOREST NATIONS SAY THEY'RE BEING LEFT BEHIND AS DOMESTIC ISSUES TAKE CENTER STAGE AMONG THE WORLD'S INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES JOHN DEFTERIOS REPORTS FROM THE U. N. CONFERENCE ON TRADE AND DEVELOPMENT IN JOHANNESBURG THE GROUP OF SEVENTY SEVEN DEVELOPING NATIONS ARE CALLING FOR DEBT RELIEF FROM THE GROUP OF SEVEN INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS HOST NELSON MANDELA SUPPORTING THE DRIVE OF THE NINTH U. N. CONFERENCE ON TRADE AND DEVELOPMENT TO HELP THE WORLD'S POOREST TWO BILLION PEOPLE THEY NEED OFFICIAL DEVELOPMENT AID AND THEY NEED THAT RELIEF SO WE HAVE TO REACT AGAINST THE ASSAULT OF THE DEVELOPMENT FATIGUE ON THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES JOB INSECURITY AND PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS ARE KEEPING THE FOCUS ON DOMESTIC ISSUES SO THE MAJOR PLAYERS ARE NOW RESISTING A BIG REDUCTION IN MULTI LATERAL DEBT WE ARE NOT PART OF THIS BIG PROBLEM BUT WE BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE BETTER DEBT MANAGEMENT YOU HAVE TO HAVE BETTER INVESTMENT POLICIES YOU HAVE TO HAVE BETTER EXPORT POLICIES WORKING ON THIS COUNTRY BY COUNTRY IS THE SOLUTION FORTY EIGHT OF ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY EIGHT MEMBERS AT THIS MEETING FALL INTO THE LEAST DEVELOPED COUNTRY CATEGORY THE SO CALLED L. D. C.S CARRY A TOTAL DEBT BURDEN OF ONE HUNDRED TWENTY SIX BILLION DOLLARS HAVE AN AVERAGE PER CAPITA INCOME OF JUST FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS A YEAR AND AN AVERAGE DEBT TO G. D. P. RATIO OF ONE HUNDRED PERCENT MOST COUNTRIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA AND LATIN AMERICA CONTINUE TO BOOM WHILE THE LEAST DEVELOPED FALL BEHIND MY BUDGET FOR THIS FINANCIAL YEAR IS TWO DOLLARS FOR HEALTH PER CAPITA BUT MY DEBT PAYMENT SERVICES IS FIVE DOLLARS LEADERS ADMIT AFRICA'S PLIGHT IS NOT BEING HELPED BY HIGH PROFILE PROBLEMS LIKE FIGHTING IN LIBERIA THAT EXAMPLE AND OTHERS NOT ONLY SCARE OFF PRIVATE INVESTORS BUT ALSO MAKE IT EASIER FOR DONOR COUNTRIES TO DELAY ACTION MOST NOW DON'T EXPECT G. SEVEN COUNTRIES TO PUT TOGETHER A FINAL DEBT RELIEF PACKAGE AT THEIR SUMMIT IN JUNE JOHN DEFTERIOS C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS JOHANNESBURG SOUTH AFRICA GENERAL MOTORS IS SAID TO BE READY TO BREAK FROM THE INDUSTRY'S TRADITIONAL PATTERN BARGAINING AT CONTRACT TALKS THIS SUMMER WITH THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS UNION IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO WIN MORE CONCESSIONS APPARENTLY THE COMPANY JUST GOT OVER A SEVENTEEN DAY STRIKE LAST MONTH THAT VIRTUALLY HALTED NORTH AMERICAN PRODUCTION AND IT MAY BE RISKING ANOTHER STRIKE LATER THIS YEAR IF IT PURSUES THIS STRATEGY QUESTION DOES GENERAL MOTORS HAVE A GOOD CASE ARE THE UNIONS ASKING FOR TOO MUCH HERE TO EXPLAIN IS JOHN CASESA AUTO ANALYST AT SCHRODER WERTHEIM WELCOME TO BUSINESS DAY JOHN GOOD MORNING ALL RIGHT ARE THE UNIONS ASKING FOR TOO MUCH ARE THEY OVERLY AGGRESSIVE GIVEN THEIR STRENGTH THESE DAYS I DO THINK THAT NINETEEN NINETY SIX IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FROM NINETY THREE FROM NINETY THE BALANCE OF POWER HAS REALLY SHIFTED AWAY FROM ORGANIZED LABOR TOWARD MANAGEMENT IN THIS INDUSTRY SO I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE TOUGH TO GET A LOT OUT OF G. M. BUT WE KEEP HEARING THAT THE UNIONS ARE NOW MORE CONCERTED MORE FOCUSED AND GETTING MORE AGGRESSIVE AND READY TO TAKE ACTION FROM THAT STRENGTH YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT WELL I THINK WE HEAR THAT ON A NATIONAL LEVEL BUT IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY THE U. A. W.'S MEMBERSHIP IS DOWN FROM A MILLION AND A HALF TO A LITTLE UNDER EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND AND THE GLOBAL FORCE OF ECONOMIC PRESSURE THE COMPETITION FROM TOYOTA FROM FIAT AND THE KOREANS ARE REALLY WHAT IS DRIVING CHANGE HERE BUT THEY CAN STILL CLOSE DOWN A WHOLE COMPANY FOR SEVENTEEN DAYS AND CAUSE WHAT NINE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF LOSSES I MEAN THAT IS SOME POWER TO WELL ABSOLUTELY BUT I THINK THAT THOSE KINDS OF STRIKES ARE REALLY A WAY OF CUTTING YOUR NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE BECAUSE ALTHOUGH G. M. LOST NINE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN THAT STRIKE THE UNION GOT NOTHING OUT OF IT AND IT INCREASED THE RISK THAT THOSE FORTY THREE DOLLAR AN HOUR JOBS WHICH IT IS AFTER WILL BECOME SCARCER AND SCARCER DO YOU BELIEVE G. M. WHEN IT SAYS IT REALLY IS GOING TO BREAK FROM PATTERN BARGAINING AND TAKE A TOUGHER STANCE OR IS THIS JUST PART OF THE PRE NEGOTIATION POSTURING WELL I THINK ALL OF WHAT WE'RE READING IS PRE NEGOTIATION POSTURE G. M. IS NOT SAYING IT WILL BREAK FROM PATTERN I THINK THAT IS THAT LAST THING THE UNION WOULD LET HAPPEN BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE U. A. W. MY IMPRESSION WAS DIFFERENT MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE A STEP AWAY FROM PATTERN BARGAINING THAT'S NOT THE CASE WELL WHAT I'M SAYING IS G. M. HAS NOT SAID THAT SOME OF THE PRESS HAS SPECULATED IT I THINK G. M. WILL TAKE A TOUGH ENOUGH LINE TO RISK BREAKING THE PATTERN IT WOULD PREFER TO DO THAT BUT I DON'T THINK THE UNION WILL LET IT GO THAT FAR BECAUSE IF THAT IF PATTERN BREAKS SOLIDARITY IS BROKEN AND THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE EFFECTIVELY WITH FORD OR WITH CHRYSLER SO G. M. BASICALLY COULD LOWER THE COST STRUCTURE HERE FOR THE WHOLE INDUSTRY NOT JUST ITSELF WELL I THINK WHAT G. M. IS DOING IS MAKING IS POSITIONING ITSELF SO THAT IT BECOMES A STRIKE TARGET SO IT SETS THE AGENDA AND THE UNION WILL WANT TO TURN TO G. M. TO NEGOTIATE NOT FORD NOT CHRYSLER AND IF G. M. SETTLES SOME OF THESE ISSUES WITH THE UNION I THINK FORD AND CHRYSLER WILL BE HAPPY TO GO ALONG WHAT KIND OF CONCESSIONS DID GENERAL MOTORS WANT IT DOESN'T WANT LOWER WAGES PRESUMABLY IT WANTS MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH ITS WORKFORCE I THINK IT IS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO IT WANTS TO REDUCE THAT IN TERMS OF FLEXIBILITY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF JOB CLASSIFICATIONS FROM FORTY OR FIFTY IN A PLANT TO TWO OR THREE RATHER THAN WAITING FOR A SPECIALIST WHO IS CLASSIFIED AS ELECTRICIAN TO COME IN AND CHANGE THE BULB SO A MACHINE CAN KEEP RUNNING THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE ANYBODY CAN DO THAT IN ADDITION I THINK IN ITS PARTS PLANTS IT WANTS LOWER WAGES A TWO TIER WAGE SYSTEM WHERE WORKERS WHO START NOW COME IN AT A LOWER WAGE RATE THAN THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE JOB THAT'S GOING TO GET IT ISN'T IT I THINK THIS TIME IT IS LIKELY TO GET IT YES THAT IS CORRECT IT COULD BE AN ELECTION ISSUE COULDN'T IT WHEN THE WORLD ONE OF THE WORLD'S BIGGEST COMPANIES TAKES ON ITS UNION AND ATTEMPTS TO DRIVE WAGES DOWN IN AN ELECTION YEAR THAT IS NEWS WELL I AGREE THAT IS A DIFFICULT COMPLICATION AND I'VE GOT TO THINK THAT WASHINGTON IS GOING TO BE ON THE SIDE OF ORGANIZED LABOR AND NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY BUT YOU THINK G. M. IS IN A STRONG POSITION HERE YEAH G. M.'S GOT EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS IN CASH ITS INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS ARE PROFITABLE AND WITH ALL THIS DEBATE ABOUT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE THERE IS LESS AND LESS SYMPATHY FOR THOSE FOLKS OUT THERE MAKING FORTY THREE DOLLARS AN HOUR WITH WAGES AND BENEFITS JOHN CASESA FROM SCHRODER WERTHEIM WE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING JOHN THANK YOU AN INTERESTING ONE TO WATCH YES WE SHALL BE WATCHING TOO AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER WE'LL GET THE NUMBERS ON NEW HOME SALES FOR MARCH LATER ON THIS MORNING IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING A HOME NEW OR PREVIOUSLY OWNED WE'VE GOT SOME ADVICE FOR YOU IN TODAY'S EDITION OF YOUR MONEY ALLAN DODDS FRANK SUGGESTS THAT IN ADDITION TO THE REAL ESTATE SALES PEOPLE AND THE BANKER THERE IS ANOTHER PROFESSIONAL WHO SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN YOUR DECISION MAKING MICHAEL KUHN IS AN INSPECTOR FOR HOUSEMASTER THE NATION'S BIGGEST HOME INSPECTION FIRM HE IS A PRO AT SPOTTING TROUBLE I DO CONSIDER FRESHLY PAINTED SURFACES A RED FLAG THEY HAVE PATCHED IT ONCE BEFORE THEY'VE PAINTED OVER IT AND IT IS CRACKED AGAIN SO THIS IS AN ONGOING MAINTENANCE SITUATION A GOOD INSPECTOR WILL LOOK AT HUNDREDS OF DETAILS IN A HOME BUT THERE ARE FIVE BASIC CATEGORIES ROOF IS NUMBER ONE NUMBER TWO WOULD BE ELECTRICAL THREE WOULD BE PLUMBING FOUR WOULD BE HEATING AND FIVE WOULD PROBABLY BE WATER PENETRATION WHEN WE GO INSIDE AND WE FIND WATER STAINS EVIDENCE OF LEAKAGE IT IS TYPICALLY GOING TO BE A FLASHING LEAK SO MOST ROOF LEAKS ARE ACTUALLY FLASHING LEAKS IN THIS FLASHING AREA I COULD SEE DAYLIGHT OUTSIDE I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT AN ELECTRICIAN COME IN HERE AND PRETTY MUCH CLEAN UP THE WHOLE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW I CONSIDER THIS TO BE AN UNSAFE CONDITION MOST BANKS REQUIRE NO MORE THAN A TERMITE INSPECTION BEYOND THAT YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN BUYER BEWARE ABOUT FIFTY PERCENT OF HOME BUYERS HIRE AN INSPECTOR THE OTHER HALF ASSUMES THE RISKS THIS IS WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED FRIABLE ASBESTOS IT IS ASBESTOS THAT IN ITSELF COULD BECOME AIRBORNE HOUSEMASTER CHARGES UP TO FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR AN INSPECTION WHICH YIELDS A DETAILED INVENTORY OF PROBLEMS AND HOW MUCH IT MAY COST TO FIX THEM BUT HOME INSPECTION IS UNREGULATED AND PRICES AND SERVICE MAY VARY REAL ESTATE BROKER ARLINE LITTMAN BELIEVES IN INSPECTING THE INSPECTOR BEFORE YOU HIRE A COMPANY CHECK IT OUT WITH YOUR ATTORNEY CHECK IT OUT WITH YOUR REALTOR CHOOSING SOMEBODY FROM THE YELLOW PAGES OR CHOOSING SOMEBODY BECAUSE YOUR FRIEND SAID WELL HE TOLD ME NOT TO BUY THAT HOUSE SO HE MUST BE WONDERFUL' WRONG WAY TO GO THAT'S YOUR MONEY ALLAN DODDS FRANK C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS NEW YORK THE FASHION INDUSTRY IS ALWAYS SEARCHING FOR WHAT'S NEW AND LATELY WHAT'S NEW IS NOT REALLY SO NEW AT ALL WAIT FOR IT CASEY WIAN HAS THE STORY ON VINTAGE CLOTHING FROM LOS ANGELES OUT WITH THE NEW IN WITH THE OLD THE LATEST FASHION CRAZE IS VINTAGE CLOTHING WHICH HAS EXPLODED OUT OF THRIFT SHOPS INTO A TWO HUNDRED FIFTY MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR BUSINESS IT IS SORT OF A TRENDY THING WITHOUT BEING TRENDY IT IS NOT SOMETHING EVERYBODY CAN WEAR AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING EVERYBODY IS TOTALLY FAMILIAR WITH BUT IT IS BECOMING FAMILIAR FROM MELROSE AVENUE IN LOS ANGELES TO FOURTH STREET IN LONG BEACH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IS COVERED WITH VINTAGE CLOTHING HATS SHOES SHADES RACKS OF RAGS FROM ANOTHER ERA AT MEOW SALES ARE GROWING AT FORTY PERCENT A YEAR AND THE STORE IS EXPANDING NEXT DOOR MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING INTO WEARING IT THEY ARE ENJOYING IT BECAUSE WE OFFER A LOT OF NEVER WORN VINTAGE MERCHANDISE CALLED DEAD STOCK IT IS QUITE ACCEPTABLE TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER WORN VINTAGE BECAUSE IT IS NEW THOSE RELUCTANT TO WEAR OLD CLOTHES CAN STILL GET THE SAME LOOK FROM MANUFACTURERS LIKE THUNDER BROTHERS WHICH MAKES NEW REPLICAS OF VINTAGE STYLES BUSINESS IS BOOMING OUR FIRST YEAR WE DID ABOUT TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OUR SECOND YEAR WE REACHED JUST A LITTLE BIT OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS AND WE'RE LOOKING TO ABOUT DOUBLE THAT TELEVISION HELPS SAM IN THE SINGLE GUY WEARS THUNDER BROTHERS' FASHIONS AND THEN THERE IS SEINFELD'S COSMO KRAMER EVEN ROSEANNE'S KIDS HAVE HELPED BOOST VINTAGE CLOTHING'S POPULARITY SO MUCH SO THAT T. V. CUSTOMERS AND STORE OWNERS NOW HAVE A TOUGH TIME STAYING IN STYLE DIGGING AROUND IN WAREHOUSES AND GOING TO LITTLE MOM AND POP STORES THAT STILL MIGHT HAVE THAT NINETEEN FORTY EIGHT PAIR OF PANTS STILL SITTING ON THE SHELF ONCE FOUND THEY WON'T SIT ON THESE SHELVES FOR LONG CASEY WIAN C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS LOS ANGELES THE QUESTION OF THIS MONDAY MORNING IS BOB DOLE'S ROLE IN THE SENATE HURTING HIS CHANCES OF BECOMING PRESIDENT ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK TIMES SOME CLOSE TO HIS CAMPAIGN THINK THAT'S THE CASE WITH MR. DOLE TRAILING TWENTY POINTS IN THE POLLS MANY BELIEVE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER SHOULD FOCUS HIS ENERGY BEYOND THE BELTWAY TOWARD COURTING AMERICAN VOTERS JOINING US NOW WITH HIS THOUGHTS ON THAT MATTER ALONG WITH THE LATEST ON WHITEWATER THE BUDGET BATTLE AND A HOST OF OTHER ITEMS IS OUR WASHINGTON INSIDER STEVE BELL CHAIRMAN OF THE STEVE BELL GROUP STEVE A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU BACK WITH US THIS MONDAY MORNING GOOD TO BE HERE DEBORAH THANKS THERE IS PRESSURE COMING FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ONTO BOB DOLE TO GIVE UP HIS LEADERSHIP POST THE ISSUE THERE BEING PERHAPS HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IS NOT SO GREAT FOR THE LEADERSHIP WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS WELL MOST PEOPLE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS ENTIRE AFFAIR A YEAR AGO ASSUMED AND MR. DOLE HAD HINTED THAT HE WOULD GIVE UP THE MAJORITY LEADER'S POST ONCE THE NOMINATION WAS SECURE WHICH IS NOW THE CASE HE IS GOING TO BE NOMINEE FOR THE PARTY HE HAS CHANGED HIS MIND FOR TWO REASONS NUMBER ONE TO BE VERY BRUTAL ABOUT IT THEY'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY AND IF THEY DON'T HAVE MONEY TO RUN A CAMPAIGN THEN HOW DO THEY GET PUBLICITY FOR THEIR CANDIDATE AND NUMBER TWO AND IT GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE FIRST PROBLEM OF HAVING NO MONEY HOW DOES BOB DOLE ON A DAILY BASIS GET ON TELEVISION AND CONFRONT PRESIDENT CLINTON ON ALL THESE ISSUES IF HE DOESN'T HAVE AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT OF A PULPIT CALLED THE MAJORITY LEADERSHIP IN THE SENATE THIS IS A VERY TOUGH SITUATION AND MANY PEOPLE WHO NOW BELIEVE IT WAS A MISTAKE TO TAKE ON BOTH JOBS REALIZE THAT BOB DOLE OUT OF MONEY DOESN'T HAVE MANY OPTIONS RIGHT NOW THAT THOUGHT IS HIS RETAINING THE MAJORITY LEADERSHIP HELPING THE CAMPAIGN OR HURTING THE PARTY IN MY VIEW IT'S HURTING THE CAMPAIGN LET ME TELL YOU WHY IT'S NOT THE OBVIOUS REASONS THAT THE LAST TWO WEEKS HAVE BEEN TERRIBLE OR THAT THE SENATE IS ABSOLUTELY UNGOVERNABLE SO THE NOTION THAT BOB DOLE CAN CONTROL THE SENATE AND CONTROL HIS MESSAGE IS UNSOUND IT'S SIMPLY THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE TIME TO CONCENTRATE AS MUCH AS HE WOULD LIKE ON THE CAMPAIGN HOW DO YOU PREPARE FOR SPEECHES HOW DO YOU PREPARE FOR APPEARANCES WHAT DO YOU DO TO GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS IF YOU'RE FULL TIME MAJORITY LEADER IN AS DIFFICULT A TIMES AS WE HAVE NOW AND WITH TOM DASCHLE THE MINORITY LEADER PINNING YOU DOWN FROM HIS POSITION IN THE SENATE AND KEEPING YOU TIED UP IN KNOTS THEN I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT A SITUATION IN WHICH IT ISN'T WORKING OUT VERY WELL AND IT IS HURTING HIS CANDIDACY DO YOU SENSE THAT THE DOLE CAMPAIGN IS FACING A CRUNCH POINT AND SOME MAJOR CHANGES WILL HAVE TO BE MADE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE WELL THEY'VE ALREADY MADE CHANGES TWICE YOU KNOW THEY'VE GOTTEN RID OF THEIR POLLSTER THEY'VE CHANGED THEIR COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT THEY'VE CHANGED THEIR MEDIA ADVISER AND SO I THINK THE CHANGES ARE BECOMING A LITTLE BIT WORN OUT HOWEVER THEY DO NEED TO PUT THE COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION IN GOOD HANDS AND I THINK THEY'RE WORKING TOWARDS THAT BUT THEY'VE GOT TO TAKE A LOOK IF THEY DON'T MAKE SOME PROGRESS THE NEXT SIXTY DAYS THEY GO INTO LET'S SAY JULY AND THIS CAMPAIGN IS STILL TWENTY POINTS DOWN THEY'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF PANICKY REPUBLICANS AROUND THE COUNTRY NOW I DON'T PUT MUCH STOCK AS YOU KNOW IN EARLY POLLS BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WHERE THE POLLS ARE GETTING A LITTLE BIT WIDER WEEK BY WEEK TWO OR THREE POINTS I THINK THERE'S A TREND HERE THAT THE DOLE CAMP HAS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT O. K. WHAT ABOUT YOUR POINT THAT YOU MADE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO THAT YOU THOUGHT ROSS PEROT WOULD JUMP INTO THE RACE DO YOU STILL THINK SO I STILL THINK HE WILL VERY FEW PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME I SHOULD ADD THAT AS A DISCLAIMER BUT I THINK THAT HE WOULD FIND HIMSELF MAYBE EITHER BORED OR NOT SUFFICIENTLY PAID ATTENTION TO IF HE DIDN'T GET IN SO I THINK MAYBE AT THE FINAL ANALYSIS HUBRIS WILL STILL DRIVE HIM INTO THE RACE STEVE ANOTHER ISSUE VERY BRIEFLY BECAUSE WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME THE WHITEWATER TAPED TESTIMONY GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CLINTON SOURCE OF POLITICAL FODDER OH PERHAPS IF IT EVER GETS FROM UNDERNEATH THE SEAL OF THE COURT RECORDS BUT WHITEWATER SO FAR HAS BEEN JUST WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A YEAR AGO KIND OF A DRIP DRIP DRIP ANNOYANCE BUT NOT WATERGATE ALL RIGHT STEVE BELL OF THE STEVE BELL GROUP THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE THANK YOU DEBORAH I WILL NOT BE A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT OR FOR ANY OTHER ELECTIVE OFFICE IN NINETEEN NINETY SIX COLIN POWELL HAS KEPT SAYING THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM HIS OWN LIPS FROM THE LIPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE TO HIM AND YET FORMER VICE PRESIDENT DAN QUAYLE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO LINDA WAS SAYING WELL IF SOMEBODY WOULD JUST GO TO HIM IN THE RIGHT WAY AND APPEAL TO HIS LOVE OF COUNTRY THEY CAN CHANGE HIS MIND WELL I WISH DAN QUAYLE WOULD STOP IT AS A MATTER OF FACT I IT SEEMS THAT THE REPUBLICANS AND I I'M SURPRISED WITH DAN QUAYLE BECAUSE I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF HIM AS BEING CONSERVATIVE I THINK IT'S BAD ADVICE I THINK THAT IF COLIN POWELL WERE TO BE SELECTED IT WOULD DIVIDE THE PARTY YOU KNOW THERE'S A PERFECT JOB FOR COLIN POWELL AND I HOPE THAT DOLE DISCOVERS THIS HE REALLY SHOULD BE APPOINTED AND I THINK HE WOULD TAKE THE JOB AS SECRETARY OF STATE NOW NOT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE I THINK HE WOULD DO A BEAUTIFUL JOB AS SECRETARY OF THE STATE AND IT WOULD BE A PRESTIGIOUS JOB I THINK ONE THAT HE WOULD LET'S FACE IT THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL JOB IS JUST NOT ENOUGH FOR COLIN POWELL TO JERRY IT WOULD PLEASE EVERYBODY ONE REASON DAN QUAYLE SAID THAT IS BECAUSE HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE BOB DOLE BEAT BLACK IN THE FALL WELL AND HE ASSUMES THAT COLIN POWELL IS ONE OF THE BEST PROPS DOLE COULD HAVE IN PURSUIT OF THAT VICTORY I THINK THAT'S BUT NOT IN THAT JOB I THINK THAT'S THE WISH AND THE HOPE OF MANY REPUBLICANS AND WHO THINK THEY'RE CONSERVATIVE SORT OF EVEN SOME CONSERVATIVES BUT NOT THE FAR CONSERVATIVES THE PARTY IS DIVIDED ALREADY YOU'VE GOT YOU'VE GOT CONSERVATIVES TAKING POTSHOTS AT BOB DOLE BEFORE HE HAS NAMED ANYBODY TO ANY APPOINTMENT APPOINTED ANYBODY TO ANY POSSIBLE POSITION YOU'VE GOT YOU'VE GOT BASICALLY MELTDOWN ON CAPITOL HILL BOB DOLE LOSING ON SOME FRONTS AND LOSING THE SUPPORT OF EVEN SOME OF HIS BEST FRIENDS IN THE SENATE ON ON SOME ISSUES LIKE THE HEALTH INSURANCE ISSUE THAT THEY TOOK UP LAST WEEK SO HE'S GOT A SERIOUS PROBLEM AND I THINK ALTHOUGH NO I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT COLIN POWELL HAS WHISPERED IN THE EAR OF DAN QUAYLE AND SUGGESTED THAT HE WOULD HE WOULD BE WILLING TO DO IT NOW I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF HOPING BEING DONE BY PEOPLE WHO WHO DO WANT BOB DOLE TO HAVE A BETTER CHANCE THAN THAN ANYBODY THINKS HE HAS RIGHT NOW SUSAN I WANT TO RUN THIS PIECE OF STRATEGIC ADVICE PAST YOU LINDA HAS SAID AND I'VE HEARD OTHER REPUBLICANS SAY ONE WAY FOR DOLE TO AT LEAST CUT DOWN WHAT ONE COLUMNIST CALLED THE CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD AMONG HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS WOULD BE TO GO AHEAD AS SHE SUGGESTED NAME SOME CABINET MEMBERS NAME HIS OWN V. P. BUT I WOULD THINK THERE ARE ALSO SOME DOLE ADVISERS SUGGESTING THAT YOU GO AHEAD AND END THE SNIPING THAT WAY BUT YOU MIGHT ALSO END ANY SUSPENSE AND INTEREST IN THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION THIS SUMMER IF YOU PUT ALL YOUR CARDS ON THE TABLE THIS EARLY WELL YOU GOT FIRST THAT PROBLEM THE SECOND PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S A MOVE FROM WEAKNESS THE THIRD PROBLEM IS THEY'D SNIPE AT THAT I MEAN THE REAL PROBLEM YOU KNOW THEY WOULDN'T LIKE THE SECRETARY OF STATE OR LINDA WOULD LIKE HIM AND SOMEBODY ELSE WOULDN'T LIKE HIM AND HE WOULD BE CONSERVATIVE OR HE WOULDN'T BE CONSERVATIVE THEN YOU'D HAVE HALF THE GUYS SAYING OH NO ACTUALLY I DON'T WANT TO DO IT AND THE PRESS WOULD SAY MY GOODNESS DOLE IS EVEN WEAKER THAN WE THOUGHT I'M HAVING JUST AN AMAZINGLY MARVELOUS TIME WATCHING THIS BECAUSE USUALLY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT DRAWING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS THIS YEAR THE WHOLE ELECTION SEEMS TO BE ABOUT DRAWING DIFFERENCES AMONG THE REPUBLICANS WITH A NOMINEE BOB DOLE WHO WANTS TO RUSH WELL NOW LET'S RIGHT DOWN TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND AGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT LET'S GIVE THE DEMOCRATS AND HIS PARTY AFTER HIM EQUAL TIME THEY'VE GOT PROBLEMS OF THEIR OWN AS WELL WE HAD THE PRESIDENT SITTING FOUR AND A HALF HOURS WITH A BATTERY OF LAWYERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE OVER THE WEEKEND TESTIFYING ON VIDEOTAPE IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL WHERE HE'S NOT AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER AS JIMMY CARTER WAS HE IS THE BUSINESS PARTNER FORMERLY OF THE GUY WHO'S ON TRIAL FOR FRAUD CHARGES THAT'S A A HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR ISN'T IT LINDA THAN JIMMY CARTER'S TRIAL APPEARANCE WELL THAT'S WHAT'S SO AMAZING ABOUT ALL OF THIS WE WE HEAR SUSAN AND OTHER LIBERALS YOU KNOW DUKAKIS PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HANG ON SUSAN IF YOU CAN'T WIN CALL NAMES YOU GET TO LAUGH IN A MOMENT LET LINDA FINISH TALKING ABOUT HOW WEAK AND AND HOW DOLE IS JUST NOT DOING WELL AND THEN WE TURN AND LOOK AT BILL CLINTON AND HIS WIFE WHO ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE PROBLEMS HE HAS IS WHITEWATER LET'S NOT FORGET THE PAULA JONES PROBLEM THAT'S LURKING OUT THERE AND LOOKING LIKE IT'S GETTING BIGGER DAY BY DAY DOLE LOOKS LIKE A SHINING STAR NEXT TO BILL CLINTON WHEN YOU REALLY ACTUALLY MAKE THE COMPARISON SO I SEE THIS YOU KNOW MAYBE WE'LL GET TO SEE WHAT CLINTON SAID I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HEAR A LOT OF HE DOESN'T RECALL AND THAT WILL LOOK TERRIBLE WHEN HE DOES THAT SO LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE SUSAN I THINK THAT ONCE THIS IS YOU KNOW REALLY WHEN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE STOP AND COMPARE AND THEY THINK WHO CAN I TRUST ' ALREADY THE POLLS SHOW THAT THEY FAVOR DOLE IMMENSELY IF THEY CARE ABOUT TRUST JERRY WAS THERE ANYTHING TELLING IN THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WANTED TO DO THIS ON VIDEOTAPE AND APPARENTLY IS NOT GOING TO GET THAT TAPE RELEASED BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WOULD FIND SOME NICE LITTLE SNIPPET TO USE IN A CAMPAIGN AD OH YES NOT FOR BILL CLINTON BY THE WAY OH YES WELL THIS IS A POLITICAL ELECTION YEAR AND THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE ONE THING REALLY RIGHT AND THAT IS TO ANTICIPATE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THEY MIGHT FACE THIS YEAR IN THE ELECTION AND MOVE IN AND WITH THEIR RAPID REACTION SQUAD AND DEAL WITH PROBLEMS BEFORE THEY BECOME HUGE PROBLEMS AND THAT MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY CLINTON IS DOING BETTER IN THE POLLS RIGHT NOW IS SO FAR AHEAD FOURTEEN TO TWENTY POINTS AHEAD OF DOLE IN POLLS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE WHERE PEOPLE ARE ASKED WOULD YOU VOTE FOR CLINTON OR DOLE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME THAT MAY CHANGE AS WE GET FURTHER CLOSER DOWN I'M GOING TO THE LINE INTERRUPT ONLY BECAUSE WE'RE ALMOST AT THE POINT WE'VE GOT TO TAKE A BREAK AND I WANT TO ASK SUSAN AS THE LAW PROFESSOR AMONG US TODAY WHAT DO YOU THINK OF KENNETH STARR I'VE READ EVEN DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE WORKED FOR HIM AS INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IN WHITEWATER SAY IT IS A DIVERSIONARY TACTIC FOR THE WHITE HOUSE TO START SLAMMING HIM NOW TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THEIR OWN PROBLEMS IS HE AN HONORABLE GUY CAN HE CONDUCT A GOOD INVESTIGATION HE MAY WELL BE AN HONORABLE GUY MARY AND HE MAY WELL BE ABLE TO CONDUCT AN HONEST INVESTIGATION BUT I THINK THERE IS A DANGER IN APPOINTING PEOPLE WITH POLITICAL ASSOCIATIONS AND POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS AND POLITICAL AGENDAS TO JOBS AS INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORS BUT NONE OF THIS THERE'S A DANGER WAS NEW IT WAS I WOULDN'T ALL OUT THERE WHEN THEY APPOINTED HIM BUT I WOULDN'T APPOINT ME TO INVESTIGATE NEWT GINGRICH BECAUSE I WOULD EXPECT I'LL BET THE G. O. P. CONGRESS WOULDN'T LET YOU EITHER WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK WHEN WE COME BACK WE WILL TALK ABOUT O. J. SIMPSON'S MURDER TRIAL ON THE BIG SCREEN WOULD YOU SHELL OUT YOUR MONEY TO GO SEE THAT REPRISE OF THE CASE STAY WITH US WELCOME BACK TO OUR LAST FEW MINUTES JERRY WE KEEP HEARING FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THEY SAY THEY ARE UP TO HERE WITH O. J. SIMPSON MURDER TRIAL COVERAGE AND YET HOLLYWOOD IS BETTING THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING CANDID AND THAT THEY REALLY WILL GO AND SEE A MOVIE BASED ON PROSECUTOR CHRIS DARDEN'S BOOK ARE THEY BETTING RIGHT OH I DON'T THINK THEY I WOULDN'T PUT ANY MONEY INTO THAT MOVIE I AM STILL ASTOUNDED THOUGH AT THE I MAY BE WRONG BECAUSE I'M STILL ASTOUNDED AT THE AMOUNT OF INTEREST THAT THAT TRIAL MANAGED TO MAINTAIN FOR THE PERIOD OF A YEAR AND TO THIS DAY I THINK THAT O. J. SIMPSON STILL COMMANDS A BIT OF ATTENTION WHEN HE'S ON TELEVISION OR RADIO SO BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO BUT I'M NOT GOING TO PAY ANY MONEY FOR THAT ONE TO SUSAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT KIND OF BOTHERS ME ABOUT THIS THIS AVALANCHE OF BOOKS AND ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS WE'VE SEEN COMING OUT OF THIS TRIAL IS I DO THINK IT RAISED PROFOUND QUESTIONS ABOUT RACE RELATIONS RACIAL AND CELEBRITY JUSTICE AND EVERYTHING FROM THE PRINCIPALS THAT'S COME OUT SO FAR SEEMS MUCH MORE READY TO TURN A QUICK BUCK THAN TO INTELLIGENTLY REFLECT TO THE PUBLIC ON WHAT HAPPENED THERE OH I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE MARY I MEAN EVERYBODY JUST WANTS TO GET IN ON THE ACTION AND THE ONLY THING I FEAR IS THAT WE'RE ALL WRONG AND THE FACT THAT CHRIS DARDEN'S BOOK IS NUMBER ONE AND BOB SHAPIRO'S BOOK IS ON THE BEST SELLER LIST AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN JOHNNIE COCHRAN'S BOOK IS A REFLECTION OF THE FACT THAT IF YOU FEED YOUR CHILDREN JUNK FOOD THREE TIMES A DAY THEY'LL PROBABLY EAT IT LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO CONCERN HOLLYWOOD NEXT IS THAT WHO PLAYS WHOM LINDA I'LL GO TO YOU ON THIS ONE THE USUAL YOUNG ATTRACTIVE TALENTED BLACK SUSPECTS ARE BEING CONSIDERED FOR CHRIS DARDEN'S ROLE DENZEL WASHINGTON LAURENCE FISHBURN WHO DO YOU SEE PLAYING THE PROSECUTOR MARY I HAVE TO TELL YOU I DON'T CARE AND I REALLY THINK THAT THE PUBLIC SHOULD DECLARE THIS MOVIE GUILTY OF BAD TASTE AND GIVE IT THE DEATH SENTENCE I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A TOP MONEY MAKER DO ALL OF YOU REALLY TRULY BELIEVE THAT THOUGH NUMBER LOOKING AT THOSE BOOK SALE NUMBERS NO I THINK IT'LL NO MAKE A MINT I DO TOO NO NO NO NO IT CAN'T WE CAN'T HAVE SLIPPED TO THAT DEPTH YES WELL WE WILL ALL KNOW BECAUSE NO DOUBT THIS BOOK MOVIE WILL BE RUSHED INTO PRODUCTION JUST AS THE BOOKS WERE WE ARE VERY APPRECIATIVE ALL THREE OF YOU WERE WITH US TO START THE WEEK OFF LINDA BOWLES SUSAN ESTRICH AND JERELYN EDDINGS AND WE'RE ALWAYS GLAD EVERYBODY OUT THERE WAS WITH US AS WELL HOPE YOU'RE BACK TOMORROW WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT WAITING TO INHALE PRESIDENT CLINTON'S NEW STRATEGY TRYING TO KEEP KIDS OFF ILLEGAL DRUGS HISTORY IS FULL OF GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO LEAVE BEHIND A WRITTEN ACCOUNT OF THEIR WAYS BELIEFS AND STORIES BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN ONE OF THEM WILL DISAPPEAR ALMOST WITHOUT A TRACE C. N. N. NEWSROOM'S ANDY JORDAN TAKES A LOOK AT ONE SUCH GROUP IN PART ONE OF HIS SERIES ON THE ANCIENT AMERICANS UNLESS YOU LOOK CLOSELY YOU MAY MISS IT CAMOUFLAGED AGAINST THE BROWN AND GREEN CANYON WALLS OF THE COLORADO PLATEAU BUT NESTLED AMID THE BRUSH AT MESA VERDE NATIONAL PARK ARE ANCIENT CITIES TWO HUNDRED PEOPLE LIVED IN ONE LITTLE AREA THIS BIG AND YOU'RE LIKE LOOKING AT WOW AND THERE ARE OVER TWENTY ROOMS HERE IN CLIFF HOUSES AS WELL THE ANCIENT PUEBLO INDIANS ARE WHAT SOME KNOW FROM THE NAVAJO WORD ANASAZI MADE THE FOUR CORNERS AREA OF THE U. S. SOUTHWEST THEIR HOME FROM AROUND THE TIME OF CHRIST TO THIRTEEN HUNDRED TAKING ADVANTAGE OF NATURAL ROCK OVERHANGS IN THE LATE ELEVEN HUNDREDS THEY MOVED DOWN FROM MESA TOPS TO CRAFT INTRICATE CLIFF DWELLINGS THEY USED VERY SIMPLE TECHNIQUES THEY USED THE STONE THAT WAS AVAILABLE AND THEY USED THE DIRT THAT WAS AVAILABLE THEY SHAPED A LOT OF THE STONES AND SO YOU'LL GET A THEY HAVE A PECKED APPEARANCE ON THE FACE OF THE STONES SO THEY DID GO TO A LOT OF EFFORT TO REACH THE APPEARANCE THAT THEY WERE AFTER WHAT MAY LOOK LIKE A PLAY FORT TO THE CHILD'S EYE IS ACTUALLY A PUEBLO VILLAGE IT PROVIDED A PLACE TO COMMUNE WITH THE EARTH AND THE GREAT SPIRITS THROUGH SUBTERRANEAN PITS CALLED KIVAS OFTEN THE FOCAL POINT OF EACH VILLAGE MOST KIVAS HAVE A SUPAPU OR SPIRIT HOLE AT THE BOTTOM WHAT THE ANCIENT ONES CONSIDERED THEIR PLACE OF EMERGENCE FROM THE EARTH MANY OF THESE VILLAGES SAW MUCH OF THEIR GROWTH AT A TIME WHEN IN EUROPE DANTE WAS WRITING AND CHRISTIANS WERE ON THEIR CRUSADES ARCHAEOLOGISTS AGREE THAT THE ANCIENT PUEBLO PEOPLE MOVED SOUTH OF MESA VERDE WHERE MODERN DAY DESCENDANTS FORMED THE HOPI ZUNI AND RIO GRANDE INDIAN RESERVATIONS WHAT ARCHAEOLOGISTS CANNOT AGREE ON IS WHY THE ANASAZI MOVED OUT OF MESA VERDE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT IS THE ANASAZI MYSTERY ONE THEORY HAS IT THAT THEY LEFT BECAUSE OF A LONG DRAUGHT BUT THEY HAD WEATHERED CENTURIES OF OTHERS DRAUGHTS OVERPOPULATION MAY HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM LEADING TO COMPETITION BETWEEN THE VILLAGES FOR FIREWOOD AND GAME ANIMALS THEY DEVELOPED WHAT APPEARS TO BE A HIGHLY CIVILIZED CULTURE WITH A ROAD SYSTEM STRETCHING FROM MEXICO TO COLORADO THAT OPENED THE LINES OF COMMUNICATION AND INFORMATION WHEN STRIFE OCCURRED IT WOULD HAVE OCCURRED QUICKLY THROUGH THE WHOLE SOCIETY AND PERHAPS MAYBE THAT IS THE ISSUE THEY HAD A LOT MORE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER IN FACT MANY OF THE CLIFF COMMUNITIES ARE ONLY A STONE'S THROW AWAY FROM THE NEXT A PLACE KNOWN AS SUN TEMPLE MAY HAVE BEEN THE CENTRAL GATHERING PLACE BY THE LATE THIRTEENTH CENTURY THE PUEBLANS STARTED FEELING THE HEAT AND BEGAN BUILDING MORE KIVAS TO PLEASE THE SPIRITS ANTHROPOLOGISTS USE CLUES FROM MODERN HOPI TRIBES TO THE SOUTH TO TEST ONE THEORY A RELIGIOUS RITUAL CALLED KACHINA CEREMONIALISM WAS THRIVING FURTHER SOUTH WHERE THERE WAS MORE RAIN AND IT WAS HOLDING TOGETHER COMMUNITIES THAT IN PUEBLO COUNTRY WERE FALLING APART THE DANCING RITES MAY HAVE BEEN INVITING FOR THE PUEBLO PEOPLE RUNNING OUT OF FOOD DEALING WITH THE DRAUGHTS FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES AND NEEDING A RALLY CRY I THINK WE ACTUALLY HAD AN INDIVIDUAL WHO STARTED A CULT MOVEMENT IT WAS BASED ON A FEAR OF THE CHANGE TO THE SOUTH SO IT WAS I THINK A FUNDAMENTALIST REACTIONARY MOVEMENT ACCORDING TO THAT THEORY THE URGE TO STAY PUT MAY HAVE ENDED WHEN THAT LEADER DIED OR WAS DISCREDITED THEY HAD BASICALLY ONE RELIGION AND THAT RELIGION WAS BASED ON THE PLANET EARTH THE SUN AND THE SKY AND THE RAIN AND THE EARTH KEEPING THAT IN BALANCE PERHAPS MORE MYSTERIOUS THAN THEIR DEPARTURE WHY THE PUEBLO PEOPLE NEVER CAME BACK THEIR MIGRATIONS IN THE PAST WERE ALWAYS IN SEARCH OF THE CENTER PLACE THEY WOULD OFTEN SAY WELL THEY WERE HERE IN THIS AREA BUT IT WASN'T THE CENTER PLACE AND SO THEY MOVED ON NOW THEY HAD FOUND THE CENTER PLACE THERE'S NO REASON TO COME BACK THE ONLY WRITTEN CLUES THE ANASAZI LEFT BEHIND ARE CARVED ON ROCKS PETROGLYPHS AND PAINTED ON CAVE WALLS PICTOGRAPHS THEY OFFER CRYPTIC CLUES BUT NO DEFINITIVE ANSWERS ABOUT AN ANCIENT PEOPLE WHO WOULD LEAVE BEHIND THE LAND THEY HELPED SHAPE ANDY JORDAN C. N. N. NEWSROOM MESA VERDE NATIONAL PARK TOPPING NEWSROOM WORLDVIEW TODAY KUWAIT PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WERE TRANSFIXED WHEN THE WEALTHY EMIRATE WAS INVADED BY NEIGHBORING IRAQ FIVE YEARS AGO AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS THIS WEEK WE GO TO KUWAIT TO FIND OUT IN A SPECIAL SERIES BY NEWSROOM'S DAVIN HUTCHINS WE BEGIN TODAY WITH A LOOK BACK AT HOW THIS SMALL STATE BECAME THE CENTER OF A MASSIVE DESERT CONFRONTATION FIVE YEARS AGO THE TINY EMIRATE OF KUWAIT EMERGED FROM THE SCURGE OF WAR BEGAN MARCHING DOWN A LONG WINDING ROAD TO RECOVERY ON AUGUST SECOND NINETEEN NINETY IRAQI PRESIDENT SADDAM HUSSEIN MARCHED HALF A MILLION IRAQI TROOPS INTO KUWAIT TO SETTLE AN OLD SCORE CITING UNFAIR OIL POLICIES AND TERRITORIAL DISPUTES IN THE EIGHT MONTHS THAT ENSUED FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND ALLIED TROOPS DESCENDED ON THE PERSIAN GULF TO EVENTUALLY EXPEL IRAQ FROM KUWAIT IN OPERATION DESERT STORM THE LARGEST MILITARY CONFRONTATION IN RECENT HISTORY FEW PEOPLE CAN FORGET THE VIVID IMAGES WHICH WERE BROADCAST AROUND THE WORLD SOLDIERS INVADING THE KUWAITI BEACHHEAD THE PILLAGING OF KUWAIT CITY THE ONE HUNDRED HOUR GROUND ASSAULT AND FINALLY THE JUBILANT LIBERATION BUT FIVE YEARS LATER SADDAM HUSSEIN REMAINS IN POWER THIS PEARL IN THE GULF FACES AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE BUT MORE PRESSING THAN ANY EXTERNAL THREATS ARE THE DYNAMIC CHANGES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE WITHIN THE LEGACY OF THE GULF WAR LEFT THE WORLD WONDERING ABOUT THIS LITTLE NATION IT SO QUICKLY DEFENDED AND THE KUWAITIS SHARE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS THEMSELVES THE MOST PRESSING OF WHICH IS WHO ARE WE NOW AND WHERE ARE WE GOING I'M DAVIN HUTCHINS TRAVEL WITH ME TO THE MIDDLE EAST THIS WEEK AS THE C. N. N. NEWSROOM EMBARKS ON A SEARCH FOR KUWAIT REDISCOVERED KUWAIT A TINY KINGDOM AN OIL PRODUCING GIANT A MODEST ARAB NATION AND RELUCTANT PARTICIPANT TO HISTORY YET MODERN KUWAIT HAD HUMBLE BEGINNINGS IN THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY FISHERMEN IN BEDOIN TRIBES FOUNDED THE TINY VILLAGE OF KUWAIT ON A COASTAL STRIP WHERE THE ARABIAN PENINSULA AND THE PERSIAN GULF MEET AS THE TRADING OF NATURAL GULF PEARLS GREW SO DID KUWAIT'S REVENUES BUT EARLY IN THIS CENTURY COMPETITION FROM CHEAP CULTURED PEARLS LEFT KUWAIT'S PEARL BASED ECONOMY IN TATTERS BUT LUCKILY FOR THE KUWAITIS THEY FOUND ANOTHER INCOME SOURCE IN THE NICK OF TIME CRUDE OIL WAS DISCOVERED IN SOUTH KUWAIT IN NINETEEN THIRTY EIGHT AND NOTHING HAS BEEN THE SAME SINCE WHEN I ARRIVED IN THE COUNTRY I FOUND ONLY TRACES OF THE WORLD THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE OIL BOOM EXPECTING TO FIND SOME OLD MUD HUTS OF YORE I DISCOVERED INSTEAD SKY SCRAPERS HOTELS AND SATELLITE DISHES MARK THE SKYLINE TODAY THERE ARE STILL YAWAS OR CAFES HOME OF THE SHEESHA PIPE WHERE KUWAITIS RELAX AND TRADE STORIES BUT THEY CAN'T BEGIN TO MATCH THE CROWDS AT HARDEE'S PIZZA HUT MCDONALD'S AND THE MEGA SHOPPING COMPLEXES THE PEARL DIVERS AND TRADERS HAVE LONG SINCE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS BUT A HANDFUL OF MEN CONTINUE TO MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF THE SEA AT THE OLD DOW HARBOR THE FISHERMEN I MET STILL REPAIR THE NETS MAINTAIN THE BOATS SET SAIL FOR THREE DAYS TO HOPEFULLY RETURN WITH A BOUNTIFUL CATCH THE LOCALS WILL TELL YOU THE CRAFTSMEN STILL MAKE TRADITIONAL DOWS BY HAND BUT WHAT I HEARD DIDN'T SEEM LIKE A BIG DEAL THAT IS UNTIL I MADE IT UP TO DOHA VILLAGE WHERE DOWS ARE STILL BUILT BY HAND AND THE OLDEST AND LARGEST ARE STILL KEPT ON PUBLIC DISPLAY IN DOWNTOWN KUWAIT CITY I FOUND FEW SIGNS OF DESTRUCTION FROM THE GULF WAR AS WELL EXCEPT FOR A FEW SELECTED SITES YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL THE CITY WAS A BATTLEFIELD FIVE YEARS AGO KUWAIT TOWERS ERECTED IN NINETEEN SEVENTY NINE AND PROBABLY THE MOST RENOWNED LANDMARK IN KUWAIT ABSORBED ITS SHARE OF DESTRUCTION BUT TODAY THE TOWERS COMPLETELY REFURBISHED ATTRACT THEIR SHARE OF TOURISTS AND THOSE SITES THAT REMAIN RUINED HAVE USUALLY BEEN LEFT THAT WAY DELIBERATELY THE KUWAIT NATIONAL MUSEUM USED TO HOUSE THE FINEST ARTIFACTS FROM KUWAITI SOCIETY THAT IS UNTIL IT WAS LOOTED BY THE IRAQIS THE EMIR LEFT A BURNT OUT SHELL AS A GHOST MUSEUM TO SERVE AS A VIVID REMINDER OF THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF WAR AFTER HALF A CENTURY OF RELIABLE OIL REVENUE KUWAITIS HAVE ZOOMED FULL THROTTLE TOWARD THE FUTURE WITH LITTLE THOUGHT OF PRESERVING THE PAST AND MUCH OF WHAT WAS PRESERVED WAS DECIMATED BY THE INVASION LEAVING VIRTUALLY NOTHING SO I FOUND THE BEST WAY TO DISCOVER KUWAITI CULTURE IS TO UTILIZE KUWAIT'S MOST PRIZED RESOURCE THE KUWAITIS THEMSELVES MEET MY CLOSEST FRIEND BEDERON UTERI WHO TOOK ME TO THE OLD SUCHOW HAREEM OR WOMEN'S MARKET TO SEE A REAL SLICE OF KUWAITI LIFE AND ALSO TO BUY ME MY FIRST DASHDASHA THE TRADITIONAL KUWAITI GARMENT AFTER A LONG DAY KUWAITIS USUALLY STAY UP UNTIL THE WEE HOURS AT THEIR FAVORITE DOUAHNIA WHICH MEANS LITTLE PARLIAMENT HERE KUWAITI MEN GET TOGETHER TO DISCUSS THE NEWS OF THE DAY PLAY CARDS DRINK ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF TEA AND ARABIC COFFEE AND MOST IMPORTANT SOCIALIZE WITH CLOSE FRIENDS THERE ISN'T A CITY STREET IN KUWAIT WITHOUT A DOUAHNIA BUT SOME KUWAITIS JUST WANT TO GET AWAY FROM THE HUSTLE AND BUSTLE OF THE CITY AND SINCE KUWAIT IS EIGHTY PERCENT DESERT WHAT BETTER PLACE TO GO ANOTHER FRIEND OF MINE BHATARO SUBAI SHOWED ME HIS DESERT LIVESTOCK FARM WHERE I GOT A CHANCE TO MILK HIS CAMELS THOUGH THE WEALTH FROM OIL AND THE LEGACY OF THE IRAQI INVASION HAS LEFT KUWAITIS IN A STRUGGLE TO HOLD ONTO THEIR HERITAGE IT'S EASY TO SEE THAT THE KEY TO THE NATION'S SOUL STILL LIES WITHIN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE KUWAITIS THEMSELVES TOMORROW WE'LL MEET THREE JOURNALISTS WHO'LL SHARE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES ABOUT WORKING AS A WESTERNER IN THE MIDDLE EAST STRANGERS IN A STRANGE LAND IT COULD BE THE CHEAPEST AND EASIEST WAY TO PROTECT BURMA'S RUGGED NATURAL BEAUTY TOM MINTIER LOOKS AT THE NATION'S INNOVATIVE USE OF CLAY THEY STILL DO THINGS THE OLD FASHIONED WAY HERE IN BURMA HUGE BAGS OF RICE ARE OFF LOADED BY HUMAN POWER HIGH TECHNOLOGY IS LIMITED HERE THESE CANS OF RAW SUGAR ARE MOVED FROM BOAT TO RIVER BANK MUCH AS THEY HAVE BEEN FOR A HUNDRED YEARS THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF WORKERS IN BURMA BUT OTHER RESOURCES ARE IN LIMITED SUPPLY WOOD IS STILL USED HERE AS A FUEL FOR COOKING SO MUCH IS BEING USED ACROSS BURMA THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THAT ONE DAY THERE WON'T BE ENOUGH WOOD TO GO AROUND COOK FIRES LIKE THIS ONE USE THREE ROCKS TO SUPPORT THE POT WOOD IS SHOVED BENEATH TO KEEP THE POT BOILING IT'S A VERY INEFFICIENT WAY FOR GATHERING THE HEAT AND USING THE FUEL AND THUS MORE PRESSURE ON THE FORESTS AS MORE FUEL IS NEEDED TO HELP CORRECT THIS THE UNITED NATIONS HAS COME UP WITH A SIMPLE SOLUTION A MORE EFFICIENT STOVE THIS CLAY COOK STOVE ONLY COSTS THE EQUIVALENT OF ONE AND A HALF U. S. DOLLARS BUT IT COULD HELP SAVE THE FORESTS HERE IT ONLY TAKES TEN DAYS TO PAY FOR ITSELF WITH WOOD SAVINGS GARDNER SAYS MANY BURMESE VILLAGERS ARE NOW MAKING THE SWITCH THE DEMAND FOR THE FUEL WOOD STOVES FAR EXCEEDS THE SUPPLY SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR GRASSROOTS WORK WITH COMMUNITIES IS TO TRAIN LOCAL POTTERS IN THE PRODUCTION OF FUEL WOOD STOVES BECAUSE WE SEE AN EXTRAORDINARY DEMAND FOR THEM THE U. N. HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTING THESE PAMPHLETS URGING WOMEN TO CHANGE THEIR COOKING HABITS BUT CHANGE WILL NOT COME EASY IN THIS SOCIETY JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING HERE IS COOKED OVER A WOOD OR CHARCOAL FIRE FROM THE HOT TEA YOU HAVE FOR BREAKFAST TO BREAD BAKED IN AN EARTHEN OVEN THEY ALL USE THE SAME SOURCE OF FUEL BUT BURMA UNLIKE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE FOREST RESERVES HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEPLETED STILL HAS TIME TO CHANGE CLOSED OFF FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD THE COUNTRY IS JUST NOW STARTING TO DEVELOP THE U. N. PROGRAM AND THE LITTLE CLAY STOVE THEY'RE OFFERING MAY NOT CHANGE HISTORY BUT IT COULD SAVE A FEW TREES TOM MINTIER C. N. N. RANGOON FOR THE NEXT FEW MINUTES WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT ANXIETY DISORDER IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS SUBJECT HERE'S THE NUMBER TO CALL FOUR OH FOUR TWO TWO ONE ONE EIGHT FIVE FIVE AS WE MENTIONED AN ESTIMATED TWENTY THREE MILLION AMERICANS SUFFER ANXIETY DISORDER AND MANY OF THEM DON'T EVEN KNOW IT THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH HAS CALLED FOR A DAY OF SCREENING THIS WEDNESDAY FOR AMERICANS TO GET TESTED FOR THE PROBLEM JOINING US NOW FROM WASHINGTON IS UNA MCCANN SHE'S WITH THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE ON MENTAL HEALTH UNIT ON ANXIETY DISORDERS AND DOCTOR MCCANN A FEW MOMENTS AGO WE LISTED WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD GET TESTED FOR IF THEY THINK THEY'RE AFFECTED BY PANIC DISORDERS PHOBIAS OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER AND GENERALIZED ANXIETY DISORDER NOW THAT'S ASSUMING THEY KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE SO HOW DO YOU CLASSIFY AN ANXIETY DISORDER AND HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM SAY MENTAL ILLNESS WELL THE ANXIETY DISORDERS AS A GROUP ARE MENTAL ILLNESSES IN FACT THEY ARE THE MOST COMMON MENTAL ILLNESS IN THE UNITED STATES AS YOU MIGHT GUESS BY THE NAME ANXIETY DISORDERS ALL OF THEM HAVE A COMMON THREAD AND THAT IS ANXIETY IS A KEY COMPONENT EACH OF THE DISORDERS YOU MENTIONED PANIC DISORDER OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER PHOBIAS AND THAT ALSO INCLUDES SOCIAL PHOBIAS AS WELL AS SPECIFIC PHOBIAS POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER AND GENERALIZED ANXIETY DISORDERS THOSE ARE THE ANXIETY DISORDERS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE TARGETING ON NATIONAL ANXIETY DISORDER SCREENING DAY WHICH IS MAY FIRST AND THIS GOES WELL BEYOND JUST HAVING A FEW HEART PALPITATIONS BECAUSE YOU'RE NERVOUS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S RIGHT ALTHOUGH THAT CAN BE ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS OF SOME OF THESE DISORDERS EACH OF THEM HAVE THEIR OWN CLUSTER OF HALLMARK SYMPTOMS FOR PANIC DISORDER THE HALLMARK SYMPTOM IS A PANIC ATTACK SUDDEN INTENSE FEAR ANXIETY ACCOMPANIED BY PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS AND OFTEN FEAR THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DIE OBSESSIVE COMPULSE DISORDER IS CHARACTERIZED BY REPEATED UNWANTED THOUGHTS THAT KEEP RECURRING EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T MAKE SENSE OR COMPULSIONS REPEATED ACTS THAT YOU CAN'T STOP YOURSELF FROM DOING SOCIAL PHOBIA IS CHARACTERIZED BY A FEAR OF SCRUTINY OR HUMILIATING YOURSELF IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER OCCURS AFTER A LIFE THREATENING INCIDENT OR A NATURAL CATASTROPHE WHERE YOU BECOME OFTEN DEPRESSED HAVE SYMPTOMS OF HYPER AROUSAL YOU AVOID SITUATIONS THAT REMIND YOU OF THE EVENT OFTEN THAT'S ALSO ACCOMPANIED BY SLEEP DISTURBANCE AND FINALLY GENERALIZED ANXIETY DISORDER IS EXCESSIVE WORRY IN SITUATIONS THAT THE WORRY IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND OFTEN ACCOMPANIED BY PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS SUCH AS NAUSEA HEADACHES TREMBLING O. K. LET'S TAKE A CALL MILWAUKEE GO AHEAD HI ARE THESE ATTACKS SOMETIMES BROUGHT ON BY SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE REALLY NOT AWARE OF YOU KNOW YOU JUST KIND OF THINK THAT MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG AND YOU JUST FEEL SO SICK ALL OVER SOMETIMES I'VE HAD TO DROP TO THE FLOOR BECAUSE I DID FEEL LIKE I WAS GOING TO DIE BUT I COULDN'T YOU KNOW FOCUS ON YOU KNOW WHAT WAS CAUSING ME THE STRESS RIGHT BY DEFINITION TO HAVE PANIC DISORDER SOME OF THE PANIC ATTACKS AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING NEED TO OCCUR OUT OF THE BLUE SPONTANEOUSLY FOR NO APPARENT REASON IF YOU HAVE REPEATED ATTACKS LIKE THESE ACCOMPANIED BY FEAR THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE YOU PROBABLY HAVE PANIC DISORDER NOW WITH ALL OF THESE DISORDERS THEY CAN CERTAIN MEDICAL DISORDERS CAN MIMIC THESE SYMPTOMS SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANOTHER DISORDER THAT COULD BE CAUSING YOUR SYMPTOMS BUT YOU COULD VERY WELL HAVE PANIC DISORDER DO A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL FEAR OR EMBARRASSMENT ABOUT REPORTING THESE DISORDERS TO THEIR DOCTOR BECAUSE YOU KNOW THEY KIND OF THINK TO THEMSELVES YOU KNOW WELL WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT AM I LOSING MY MIND ABSOLUTELY DESPITE GREAT ADVANCES IN RECENT YEARS THERE IS A STIGMA ATTACHED WITH ANY MENTAL ILLNESS AND THE ANXIETY DISORDERS ARE NO EXCEPTION TO THAT FOR EXAMPLE WITH PANIC DISORDER PROBABLY FEWER THAN ONE IN THREE PEOPLE ACTUALLY SEEK HELP FOR THAT DISORDER DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT'S VERY TREATABLE BETWEEN SEVENTY AND NINETY PERCENT OF PEOPLE WITH PANIC DISORDER GIVEN THE PROPER TREATMENT CAN MAKE DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN THEIR LIFE THAT'S ENCOURAGING MASSACHUSETTS GO AHEAD YES MY QUESTION IS ALSO ABOUT A MEDICAL AFFILIATION IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A PERSON COULD BE DIAGNOSED WITH TACHYCARDIA BUT IN FACT ACTUALLY BE HAVING PANIC ATTACKS ABSOLUTELY TACHYCARDIA OR RAPID HEARTBEAT IS A SYMPTOM OF A PANIC ATTACK IT'S ALSO SEEN OFTEN IN SOCIAL PHOBIA POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER AND GENERALIZED ANXIETY DISORDER SO ABSOLUTELY DOCTOR MCCANN HOW WELL DOES THE MEDICAL OR HEALTH CARE COMMUNITY REACT TO ANXIETY DISORDERS WELL THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH OVER THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN CONDUCTING A CAMPAIGN BOTH TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ABOUT ANXIETY DISORDERS AND LARGELY THROUGH EFFORTS BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ITS RESEARCHERS AND ITS FUNDED RESEARCHERS GREAT STRIDES HAVE BEEN MADE IN ONE THE ACCEPTANCE OF ANXIETY DISORDERS AND TWO THE KNOWLEDGE OF ANXIETY DISORDERS ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS REALLY FASCINATING IN DOING THE RESEARCH FOR THIS WAS THE COST OF ANXIETY DISORDER JUST TO THE WORKPLACE OR IN PERSONAL HEALTH CARE COSTS RIGHT IN NINETEEN NINETY THE ANXIETY DISORDERS WERE ESTIMATED TO COST FORTY SIX BILLION DOLLARS THAT'S ABOUT ONE THIRD OF THE ENTIRE MENTAL HEALTH CARE BUDGET O. K. CONNECTICUT GO AHEAD O. K. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION I WANT TO KNOW IF ANYTHING PHYSICAL CAN CAUSE ANXIETY WELL NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT CAUSES ANXIETY DISORDERS BUT WE DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S A MIXTURE OF THINGS INCLUDING GENETIC HERITABILITY IN OTHER WORDS IF A RELATIVE A BLOOD RELATIVE OF YOURS HAS AN ANXIETY DISORDER YOU DO HAVE AN INCREASED CHANCE WE THINK THAT BRAIN NEUROCHEMISTRY CERTAINLY WOULD QUALIFY AS PHYSICAL IS INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN PRODUCING THESE SYMPTOMS AND ALSO CERTAIN ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS SEEM TO BE QUITE IMPORTANT IN PARTICULAR CERTAIN TYPES OF STRESSES CAN MAKE ANXIETY DISORDERS WORSE ANOTHER CALL FROM CONNECTICUT YES I'M CALLING FROM STRATFORD CONNECTICUT I WAS WONDERING I WAS LISTENING TO YOU SPEAKING BEFORE ABOUT COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOR OR AFTER YOU HAD LIKE A MOTOR SOMETHING HAPPENED WHERE YOU AVOIDED THE PLACES RIGHT AND IN MY CASE I FEEL THAT SINCE I HAD A SERIES OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS THAT I FEEL DRAWN MORE TO PURSUING INSTEAD OF GETTING AWAY FROM THE SITUATION SO I FIND MYSELF SAY THE NEXT BIKE I WOULD OWN I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO BE RECKLESS RIGHT THAN TO DRAW BACK FROM IT SO IS THAT THAT'S NOT EXACTLY POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER BUT THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT YOU'RE REACTING TO WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU IN A SENSE YOU'RE TRYING TO PROVE TO YOURSELF THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS SO IT'S CALLED COUNTER PHOBIC BEHAVIOR YOU ACTUALLY PURSUE THE THING THAT PERHAPS IS MOST TERRIFYING TO YOU ALL RIGHT WE SHOULD NOTE TOO BEFORE WE GO HERE DOCTOR AGAIN AS YOU SAID THERE IS A HIGH SUCCESS RATE IN TERMS OF TREATMENT SO AGAIN WE DO WANT TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO FEELS THEY SUFFER FROM ONE OF THESE DISORDERS TO CALL THIS WEDNESDAY OR DON'T EVEN WAIT TILL WEDNESDAY FOR MORE INFORMATION ON ANXIETY DISORDERS YOU CAN CALL ONE EIGHT HUNDRED MINUS SIXTY FOUR PANIC ONE EIGHT HUNDRED MINUS SIXTY FOUR PANIC AND FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO GET SCREENED FOR ANXIETY DISORDERS THE NUMBER IS ONE EIGHT HUNDRED FOUR FOUR TWO TWO OH TWO OH AND DOCTOR UNA MCCANN WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY WELL THEY'RE CALLING IT THE SECRET WEAPON FOR THE U. S. OLYMPIC CYCLING TEAM AND TODAY OFFICIALS ARE UNVEILING THE SO CALLED SUPER BIKE THE SECOND C. N. N.'S LARRY SMITH REPORTS THAT THESE HOT WHEELS HAVE BEEN NEARLY FOUR YEARS IN THE MAKING AND HOPE TO GIVE CYCLERS AN EDGE OVER THEIR COMPETITION IT HAS BEEN FOUR YEARS IN THE WORKS SUPER BIKE THE SECOND IT'S A NARROWER SHORTER FASTER STRONGER LIGHTER BIKE WE'VE REDUCED THE WEIGHT AND WE'VE INCREASED THE STIFFNESS WE'VE REDUCED THE AERODYNAMIC DRAG I THINK WE'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT THIS IS THE FASTEST BIKE OUT THERE FOR THE U. S. TEAM THAT WASN'T THE CASE AT THE NINETEEN NINETY TWO BARCELONA OLYMPICS IN NINETY TWO YOU GET OUT THERE IN THE WARM UPS AND EVERYBODY'S GOT THEIR BIKES AND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW LIKE WELL GEE YOU KNOW YOU KNOW I WISH WE HAD THAT KIND OF STUFF AND NOW YOU KNOW THE SHOE'S ON THE OTHER FOOT IT'S ON THE OTHER FOOT BECAUSE AFTER A LACKLUSTER PERFORMANCE AT THE NINETY TWO GAMES WHERE A HIGHLY TOUTED U. S. TEAM WON ONLY TWO BRONZE MEDALS U. S. CYCLING WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND FORMED PROJECT NINETY SIX A TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR PROGRAM WHOSE PRIMARY GOAL WAS TO COME UP WITH THE MOST AERODYNAMIC BIKE IN THE WORLD EVERY PLACE ON THE BIKE THAT WE SEE THE WIND COMING ACROSS IT IT WE HAVE PAID ATTENTION TO THAT AND MADE AMENDS TO MAKE THE AIR FLOW OVER IT SMOOTHER AND BETTER TESTS AT THE GENERAL MOTORS WIND TUNNEL PROVED THAT THE BIKE IS INDEED AN AERODYNAMIC MASTERPIECE JUST THE FACT THAT THEY'VE TESTED SO FAST IN THE WIND TUNNEL GIVES US THE ADVANTAGE OF KNOWING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE THE FASTEST YOU KNOW MOST WELL EQUIPPED TEAM ON THE LINE WHEN IT COMES TO ATLANTA SO THAT'S A HUGE ADVANTAGE PSYCHOLOGICALLY FOR US PSYCHOLOGICALLY IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE GETTING ON THE LINE KNOWING THAT YOU'RE NOT IMPAIRED BY ANYTHING THAT YOU NOTHING IS GOING TO HOLD US BACK IT'S ALL GOING TO BE OUR TRAINING YOU KNOW OUR TRAINING PROGRAM IS BETTER THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN BEFORE SO THERE'S REALLY I GUESS HAVING THE FASTEST BIKE JUST YOU KNOW THERE'S NO EXCUSES WHEN YOU GET TO THE COMPETITION BUT EVERYONE INVOLVED IN PROJECT NINETY SIX KNOWS THAT A BIKE ALONE EVEN A SUPER BIKE WON'T BRING HOME GOLD IN ATLANTA THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO THE ENGINE THE BIKE DOESN'T PROPEL ITSELF BUT YOU KNOW IT JUST HELPS US GET THERE A LITTLE SOONER WE HOPE LARRY SMITH C. N. N. SPORTS FOR SOME KIDS THE JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS' CAMPAIGN OF THE NINETEEN EIGHTIES SEEMS LIKE ANCIENT HISTORY IF THEY KNOW ABOUT IT ALL AND WITH THAT AND THE SPREAD OF A CHEAP AND DANGEROUS DRUG IN MIND PRESIDENT CLINTON TODAY TOOK THE WRAPS OFF HIS NEW STRATEGY TO CRACK DOWN ON ILLEGAL DRUGS C. N. N.'S JILL DOUGHERTY TRAVELED WITH THE PRESIDENT TO CORAL GABLES FLORIDA JILL WELL BOBBIE UNDER FIRE FROM BOTH REPUBLICANS AND FROM SOME DEMOCRATS FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH TO CONTROL DRUG USE IN THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT CLINTON MADE HIS ANNOUNCEMENT AT A MIDDLE SCHOOL ON CORAL GABLES FLORIDA SAYING THE FOCUS OF HIS NINETEEN NINETY SIX DRUG CONTROL STRATEGY WOULD BE YOUNG PEOPLE AND HE ANNOUNCED A NEW AND SEPARATE STRATEGY TO FIGHT MEPHAMPHETAMINE THAT'S A DESTRUCTIVE AND ADDICTIVE SYNTHETIC DRUG THEY'RE CALLING IT THE POOR MAN'S COCAINE IT'S NOW CONCENTRATED IN THE WEST AND SOUTHWEST BUT IT'S MOVING EAST IT TWO YEARS DEATHS FROM THIS DRUG HAVE DOUBLED I'M GLAD IT'S NOT HERE YET BUT WE HAVE TO STOP IT BEFORE IT COMES THE CRACK OF THE NINETEEN NINETIES AND WE ARE GOING AFTER IT RIGHT NOW THE PRESIDENT'S PROGRAM AGAINST DRUGS HAS FIVE GOALS ONE MOTIVATE YOUNGSTERS AGAINST DRUGS TWO INCREASE PUBLIC SAFETY BY REDUCING DRUG RELATED CRIME THREE REDUCE THE HEALTH WELFARE AND CRIME COSTS RESULTING FROM ILLEGAL DRUG USE FOUR INTERDICTION THAT'S TARGETING THE DRUG THREAT ON LAND SEA AND IN THE AIR AND FINALLY CUTTING DRUGS AT THE SOURCE BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND DOMESTIC THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS THE NEW STRATEGY IS NOT A SILVER BULLET BUT A LONG TERM PLAN I AM ANNOUNCING TODAY A NEW AND INTENSIFIED STRATEGY TO BATTLE DRUGS THAT BUILDS AND IMPROVES ON THE WORK WE HAVE DONE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS CALLS FOR MORE RESOURCES FROM THE NATION THAN EVER BEFORE AND TARGETS THOSE RESOURCES BETTER THAN EVER THIS NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL STRATEGY OF NINETEEN NINETY SIX AS GENERAL MCCAFFREY SAID IS MEANT TO BE A TEN YEAR PLAN THE PRESIDENT SAYS THAT HE IS ASKING CONGRESS TO INCREASE THE MONEY FOR ANTI DRUG EFFORTS BY NINE POINT THREE PERCENT AND HE ALSO SAYS IT SHOULD BE A BIPARTISAN ISSUE BOBBIE JILL WE UNDERSTAND THIS WAS THE MAIN THRUST OF THE PRESIDENT'S TRIP BUT IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME THERE WERE SOME POLITICAL OVERTONES AS WELL TO THIS JOURNEY THERE ARE ACTUALLY THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THEM ANTI DRUG POLICIES AND CRIME ARE BIG ISSUES IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN AND EVEN AS THE PRESIDENT WAS ARRIVING HERE IN FLORIDA THE FLORIDA REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS PUTTING AN AD IN THE MIAMI HERALD PURPORTEDLY OFFERING FEDERAL JUDGESHIP FOR SALE AND THAT AD FACETIOUS IN A WAY WAS AGAINST THE CLINTON NOMINEE FOR U. S. APPEALS COURT THAT IS CHARLES BUD STACK HE'S A DEMOCRATIC ACTIVIST AND A FLORIDA LAWYER AND REPUBLICANS CLAIM HIS ONLY QUALIFICATION FOR THE JOB AS JUDGE IS HIS FUNDRAISING ABILITY FOR THE DEMOCRATS THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT BUD STACK IS QUALIFIED THEY'RE STICKING WITH HIM AND THEY SAY THAT REPUBLICANS INSTEAD OF PLACING ADS IN THE PAPER SHOULD GO ALONG AND WORK WITH THEM IN A BIPARTISAN MANNER BOBBIE ALL RIGHT JILL DOUGHERTY IN CORAL GABLES FLORIDA THANKS VERY MUCH JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO WE REPORTED ABOUT THE MASSACRE OF TOURISTS ON THE AUSTRALIAN ISLAND OF TASMANIA AT LEAST THIRTY FOUR PEOPLE ARE KNOWN DEAD AFTER THAT SHOOTING RAMPAGE AND THE SUBSEQUENT FIRE POLICE SAY THE SUSPECT IN CUSTODY HAS A HISTORY OF MENTAL PROBLEMS THIS KIND OF STORY MAKES US WONDER HOW OR WHY COULD ANYONE BE DRIVEN TO KILL DOZENS OF INNOCENT STRANGERS PROFESSOR CHARLES STROZIER JOINS US FROM OUR BUREAU IN NEW YORK HE'S AN EXPERT ON VIOLENCE FROM THE JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE WELCOME PROFESSOR AFTER THE DUNBLANE SCOTLAND DISASTER ONE OF THE CITY FATHERS THERE SAID EVIL HAS COME TO OUR TOWN AND WE DON'T KNOW WHY THE SAME QUESTION I IMAGINE COULD BE ASKED ABOUT THE PORT ARTHUR INCIDENTS OVER THE WEEKEND ONLY WE'RE ASKING THE QUESTION OF YOU HAVE YOU GOT ANY ANSWER TO WHY WELL EVIL CERTAINLY HAS COME TO TASMANIA I MEAN IT WAS A VERY TRAGIC EVENT AND THESE THEY SEEM THEY SEEM TO BE HAPPENING MORE FREQUENTLY AROUND THE WORLD IN THE LAST TEN TWENTY YEARS CERTAINLY AND WHY IS THAT WELL THAT'S VERY HARD TO SAY I MEAN IT RELATES TO I MEAN THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE PRONE TO THAT KIND OF VIOLENCE BUT ONE HAS TO SUSPECT THAT THERE'S A COPYCAT ISSUE GOING ON IN OTHER WORDS THE MORE IT HAPPENS THE MORE LIKELY IT IS TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL GOES INTO A MCDONALD'S OR SHOOTS FROM A TOWER AND KILLS REALLY LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME IT SEEMS TO BE ALSO INDISCRIMINATE IN THE SENSE THAT IN DUNBLANE IT WAS A MAN WHO HAD A TROUBLED PAST SELECTING CHILDREN AT RANDOM TO MASSACRE IN THIS CASE IT WAS A DELIBERATE ACT OF RANDOM FIRING BUT NOT SPORADIC SPRAYING GUNFIRE BUT PICKING OUT PEOPLE AND DELIBERATELY KNOCKING THEM DOWN RIGHT THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE FRIGHTENING ASPECTS OF IT IT IS INDISCRIMINATE BUT YOU MENTIONED THE THERE'S A KIND OF A NUMBNESS OF THE KILLER TO HIS VICTIMS AND I THINK THAT'S RELATED TO A LOT OF THINGS BUT ONE THING THAT ONE MIGHT STRESS IS AS THE DESTRUCTIVENESS OF THE WEAPONRY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES ANYWAY AS THE DESTRUCTIVENESS HAS INCREASED THE EMPATHY FOR VICTIMS TENDS TO DECREASE SO THAT THE COMPLETE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS SO STRIKING ABOUT WILLIAM BRYANT IS WHAT WOULD SEEM TO BE THE COMPLETE LACK OF EMPATHY FOR THE PEOPLE HE KILLED JUST A FLATNESS A NUMBNESS AND THAT'S YOU KNOW NOT UNRELATED TO THE KILLING POTENTIAL OF THE WEAPONRY THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR HIM THE PSYCHOLOGY OF IT USUALLY WE HEAR OF THESE MOST HORRIBLE CRIMES BEING COMMITTED AND ENDING IN SOME FORM OF SUICIDE IN THIS CASE THE MAN THREW HIS GUN DOWN AND TRIED TO PUT THE FIRE OUT HIS CLOTHES HAD CAUGHT ON FIRE HE DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE LIKE MANY OF THESE CRIMES THE KILLER WANTS TO TAKE AS MANY PEOPLE WITH HIM BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE'S GOING OUT ANYWAY RIGHT THAT IS ONE OF THE SURPRISING THINGS ABOUT IT THAT HE CAME OUT FROM THE FIRE WITHOUT KILLING HIMSELF THERE CERTAINLY IS A THERE ARE ISSUES OF INDIVIDUAL TRANSCENDENCE HERE THAT WE DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT YET THESE THINGS ARE ALWAYS MUCH CLEARER IN RETROSPECT THAN TRYING TO ANTICIPATE THEM BUT WHATEVER ISSUES IN HIS INDIVIDUAL PSYCHOLOGY WERE GOING ON YOU KNOW WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT FOR LATER KNOWLEDGE YOU CAN'T REALLY ANTICIPATE A CRIME LIKE THIS CAN YOU NUMBER YOU REALLY CAN'T I MEAN THE ONLY THE GENERAL QUESTION IS WITH THE WIDESPREAD AVAILABILITY OF GUNS AND PARTICULARLY GUNS OF GREAT DESTRUCTIVENESS ONE HAS TO FEEL THAT THESE SORT OF RANDOM ISSUES OF RANDOM EXAMPLES OF SUCH VIOLENCE WILL PROBABLY KEEP OCCURRING SO WE ALSO KNOW THAT TASMANIA HAS ONE OF THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE GUN LAWS IN AUSTRALIA CAN WE HANG PART OF THE BLAME ON THAT MAYBE BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY PLENTY OF GUNS READILY AVAILABLE IN THE UNITED STATES I MEAN IT'S A WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON ALMOST ONE MIGHT SAY AN EPIDEMIC THAT WE'RE CONFRONTING AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF EXPERIENCE WITH IT IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT WOULD SEEM TO BE SPREADING IN PART OF AN OVERALL GLOBAL PROCESS ISN'T IT USUALLY THOUGHT OF AS A U. S. A. PHENOMENON DIDN'T IT WELL YOU MEAN WHETHER WE HAVE THE INDUSTRY STANDARD THAT MAY BE THE CASE WE CERTAINLY HAVE PIONEERED IN MASS KILLINGS BUT IT'S ALSO NOT RESTRICTED TO THE UNITED STATES AND MASS VIOLENCE IT SEEMS THAT EACH CRIME BECOMES MORE INTENSE MORE HEINOUS THAN THE LAST CRIME DOES MEDIA PLAY A ROLE IN ANY OF THIS THE REPORTING OF IT OH UNDOUBTEDLY UNDOUBTEDLY I MEAN YOU KNOW WE LIVE IN A CULTURE OF VIOLENCE AND WE'RE IMMERSED WITH IMAGES OF VIOLENCE AND DESTRUCTIVENESS AND DEATH AND KILLING MOST PEOPLE ARE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OF COURSE ARE NOT INFLUENCED BY THOSE IMAGES TO GO OUT AND BECOME VIOLENT THEMSELVES BUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST TROUBLED THEMSELVES PSYCHOLOGICALLY THE MOST VULNERABLE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE MOST INFLUENCED SO WHAT DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO WHEN YOU BRAINSTORM THIS YOU SIT IN A ROOM AND TRY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION TRY TO COME UP WITH A CAUSE WHAT WELL WE'RE I'M INVOLVED IN A RESEARCH CENTER AND WE TRY TO STUDY IT BOTH WHAT'S GOING ON IN CONTEMPORARY TIMES WHAT HAS GONE ON IN THE PAST BUT WE ALWAYS CONSIDER IT'S ETHICALLY IMPORTANT TO ALWAYS CONSIDER ISSUES OF POLICY THAT RELATE TO TRYING TO SOLVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO A PUBLIC DEBATE THAT WILL THAT CAN MOVE AWAY FROM EXAMPLES OF SUCH KILLING IS THERE SOME POLICY NOW THAT YOU WOULD CHANGE IF YOU HAD THE EAR OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW WHAT WOULD YOU TELL HIM VIS_A_VIS VIOLENCE MYSELF A LOT MORE GUN CONTROL AS LONG AS THE WORLD IS HAS SO MUCH SO MANY WEAPONS AVAILABLE I THINK IT'S ALMOST INEVITABLE THAT IN CERTAIN CASES THEY'RE GOING TO BE USED ALL RIGHT CHARLES STROZIER OF JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US THANK YOU I GUESS ELSA HAS GOT SOME ERRATIC DRESSES TO SHOW US ERRATIC THAT'S THE WRONG WORD OH THAT'S EVEN BETTER O. K. AND I THINK IT'S YOU COULD SAY HERB BUT SOMEHOW THAT DOESN'T HAVE A CACHE I THINK IT'S HERVE LEGER OH MY MY EROTIC YET ROMANTIC DRESSES THAT REVEAL MORE BY SHOWING LESS THAT'S THE DIRECTION IN THE SPRING COLLECTION FROM PARIS DESIGNER HERVE LEGER LEGER STILL DOES BODY HUGGING BANDAGE OUTFITS THAT FIT LIKE A SECOND SKIN BUT THIS SEASON HE COVERS THEM WITH CROCHETED OR SHEER LONG LAYERS SO UNDER YOU KNOW YOU STILL HAVE THE BANDAGE IT MAKES YOU LIKE A GARDEN IT MAKES YOUR BODY LOOK BEAUTIFUL AND ON THE TOP OF IT IT'S MORE DIFFERENT IT FLOATS HOW ARE YOU DOING THAT WITH COVERING THE BANDAGE DRESS WITH ALL SORTS OF FABRIC LACE AND AND RIBBON OF ORGANZA AND SO THEY LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT WHAT COLORS ARE YOU USING I HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH MARSHMALLOW COLORS SO I HAVE A RANGE OF BEAUTIFUL PINK AND ORANGE PINK GREEN TURQUOISE BUT SORT OF WHITE PASTEL THEN OF WHITES AND I'VE DONE A LOT OF BLACK ALSO THIS TIME WHICH I DIDN'T DO FOR A FEW SEASONS LIKE THE SPRING WHY NOT BLACK IS FOR ALL YEAR LONG LEGER SAYS HIS DAYWEAR IS AS SOPHISTICATED AS HIS EVENING OUTFITS IN MY SHOP NOW AND IN THE COMPANIES ALWAYS SOPHISTICATED CLOTHES SO EVERY TIME YOU KNOW EVEN MY DAYTIME IS NOT REALLY CASUAL SO IT'S OF COURSE I DRESS WOMEN FOR THE DAY BUT THE EVENING IS VERY IMPORTANT WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE DAYTIME DAYTIME AND SWEATERS WITH BIG FULL SKIRTS AND VERY SHORT DRESSES WITH FLAIR YOU KNOW THAT'S HERVE LEGER WITH HIS SPRING COLLECTION ELSA KLENSCH C. N. N. PARIS PRETTY I THOUGHT YEAH I GOTTA QUIT EATING RED LICORICE THAT'S FOR SURE KIND OF LIKED THAT ORGANDY WITH THAT ARAB STUFF NICE TRY THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA IN TAMPA IS PRACTICALLY DESERTED NEARLY FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO WOULD NORMALLY BE AT THE UNIVERSITY RIGHT NOW STAYED AWAY FROM THE CAMPUS TODAY BECAUSE OF TERRORIST THREATS TO SET OFF A BOMB AT THE SCHOOL ROB NORTH OF C. N. N. AFFILIATE W. F. L. A. IS LIVE IN TAMPA WHAT'S GOING ON THERE LOU IT'S VERY VERY QUIET HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA YOU CAN PROBABLY SEE OVER MY SHOULDER THERE ARE COPS ALL OVER THIS CAMPUS RIGHT NOW THIS IS PROBABLY THE SAFEST PLACE IN TAMPA BAY THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA IN TAMPA IS TECHNICALLY OPEN BUT SECURITY IS INTENSE A SELF STYLED MID EAST TERRORIST GROUPS THE WAR PURGERS SENT A LETTER TO THE STUDENT NEWSPAPER NEWSPAPER LAST MONTH THE AUTHOR THREATENED TO BOMB A CAMPUS BUILDING AND KILL A FEMALE PROFESSOR TODAY THAT THREAT PROMPTED THE UNIVERSITY TO HOLD FINALS A WEEK EARLY AND IMPOSE UNPRECEDENTED SECURITY ON CAMPUS TODAY I CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THIS LETTER WRITER AND MY FEELINGS ARE MORE FEELINGS OF ANGER THAT WE AS AN INSTITUTION CAN BE INTIMIDATED AT ALL THE UNIVERSITY HAS NO IDEA WHETHER THE LETTER IS A HOAX F. B. I. AGENTS SEARCHED A CAMPUS DORM ROOM FRIDAY BUT SO FAR HAS MADE NO ARRESTS U. S. F. SAYS ONLY ONE QUARTER OF THE REGULAR FACULTY AND STAFF ARE ON CAMPUS TODAY SECRETARY MARILYN MATTHEW IS AT HER DESK ON THE SIXTH FLOOR OF THE LIBRARY THERE IS A LITTLE FEAR BUT SECURITY IS AGAIN AT ITS PEAK AND I'M CONFIDENT THAT IF ANYTHING HAPPENS I BASICALLY HAVE MY AFFAIRS IN ORDER BUT I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT IT'S MORE SECURE TODAY I THINK THAN A LOT OF OTHER DAYS NOW PRESIDENT CASTOR IS CALLING ALL OF THIS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE AND SHE HOPES THE UNIVERSITY WILL BE ABLE TO RETURN TO NORMAL TOMORROW BACK TO YOU LOU WILL IT RETURN TO NORMAL TOMORROW WELL I THINK THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A NEW HEIGHTENED SENSITIVITY TO SECURITY ISSUES HERE THIS IS OF COURSE A UNIVERSITY AND OPEN CAMPUS BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE THINKING MORE ABOUT THESE SECURITY ISSUES O. K. ROB NORTH THANKS FOR HELPING US OUT ROB IS WITH W. F. L. A. DOWN THERE IN TAMPA TODAY IN IDAHO FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN ONCE AGAIN IS TESTIFYING UNDER OATH ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THE O. J. SIMPSON CASE HE IS PROVIDING A DEPOSITION IN THE WRONGFUL DEATH CIVIL SUIT BROUGHT AGAINST SIMPSON AND WHILE FUHRMAN WAS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE SIMPSON TRIAL HE IS PLAYING A DIFFERENT ROLE THIS TIME C. N. N.'S CHARLES FELDMAN HAS OUR REPORT IN MOST CRIMINAL TRIALS IT IS THE DEFENDANT WHO COMMANDS CENTER STAGE THE O. J. SIMPSON TRIAL WAS NOT LIKE MOST OTHER CASES SHARING THE SPOTLIGHT WITH SIMPSON FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN OR AS HE CAME TO BE KNOWN THE MAN WHO FOUND THE GLOVE I LOOKED DOWN AND I SAW A DARK OBJECT I WAS PROBABLY STILL FIFTEEN TWENTY FEET AWAY AND I KEPT WALKING CLOSER THEN I SAW WHEN I WAS A FEW FEET AWAY THAT IT WAS A GLOVE AS HE DID IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING FUHRMAN REPEATED THAT TESTIMONY DURING THE TRIAL ITSELF BUT BY THEN SIMPSON'S LAWYERS HAD EFFECTIVELY TURNED THE TABLES FUHRMAN WAS CAST AS A RACIST ROGUE COP WHO WAS OUT TO GET SIMPSON AND MAY HAVE SIMPSON'S LAWYERS STRONGLY SUGGESTED EVEN PLANTED KEY EVIDENCE TO TRY AND PROVE THAT FUHRMAN IS A RACIST SIMPSON'S LAWYERS SET A TRAP BY ASKING FUHRMAN WHETHER HE USED WHAT WAS OFTEN REFERRED TO GINGERLY AS THE 'N WORD ALTHOUGH F. LEE BAILEY DID NOT MINCE WORDS IN HIS CROSS EXAMINATION NOW YOU SAY ON YOUR OATH THAT YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED ANY BLACK PERSON AS A NIGGER OR SPOKEN ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AS NIGGERS IN THE PAST TEN YEARS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING AND THEN CAME THE BOMBSHELL IT WAS REVEALED THAT FUHRMAN HAD INDEED USED THE SO CALLED 'N WORD SEVERAL TIMES DURING TAPED CONVERSATIONS WITH A WOULD BE SCREENWRITER WHO WAS LOOKING FOR COLOR FOR A SCRIPT SHE WAS WORKING ON ABOUT THE POLICE THAT COUPLED WITH NEWS THAT FUHRMAN WAS NOW UNDER INVESTIGATION HIMSELF FOR ALLEGED ACTS OF POLICE MISCONDUCT HE TALKED ABOUT ON THOSE TAPES RESULTED IN FUHRMAN TAKING THE FIFTH AMENDMENT NOW DETECTIVE FURHRMAN DID YOU PLANT OR MANUFACTURE ANY EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE I ASSERT MY FIFTH AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE THE HIGH PROFILE ROLE FUHRMAN PLAYED IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL EXPERTS SAY IS NOT LIKELY TO BE REPEATED IN THE FORTHCOMING CIVIL SUIT AGAINST SIMPSON FILED BY FAMILIES OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND RON GOLDMAN MAINLY THEY SAY THAT IS BECAUSE IN THE CIVIL TRIAL SIMPSON HIMSELF WILL HAVE TO TAKE THE STAND SOMETHING HE DID NOT DO DURING THE CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS SINCE THE NOW RETIRED DETECTIVE IS STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION IN CALIFORNIA ANY TESTIMONY HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO OFFER IS BOUND TO BE SEVERELY LIMITED CHARLES FELDMAN C. N. N. LOS ANGELES WELL THE RACE TO BE NUMBER ONE DEPENDING UPON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT CAN BE A GREAT MOTIVATION OR A HUGE SOURCE OF STRESS YES IT CAN THE STRESSFUL SIDE AS A MATTER OF FACT IS APPARENTLY WHAT SOME HIGH SCHOOL OFFICIALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE LOOKING AT SO AS C. N. N.'S ROBERT VITO EXPLAINS A TRADITIONAL CLASS COMPETITION IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR IT IS A LONG STANDING TRADITION AT GRADUATION A HIGH SCHOOL HONORS IS VALEDICTORIAN AND SALUTATORIAN THE NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO ACADEMIC ACHIEVERS IN THE GRADUATING CLASS BUT THE PRACTICE OF HONORING THESE YOUNG ACHIEVERS IS UNDER FIRE ABOUT HALF OF ALL U. S. HIGH SCHOOLS HAVE STOPPED OR ARE STOPPING THE COMPETITION ACCORDING TO A NATIONAL SURVEY OF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS THAT TENSE PRESSURE THOSE KIDS ARE IN THEY SHOULDN'T BE CRITICS SAY THE RACE TO BE NUMBER ONE OR NUMBER TWO IN THE CLASS PITS STUDENTS AGAINST STUDENTS AND IS EMOTIONALLY UNHEALTHY AND THEY WANT THE HONOR ELIMINATED BUT SOME STUDENTS INVOLVED IN THAT RACE DISAGREE IN THIS ADVANCED SENIOR ENGLISH CLASS AT WESTERN HIGH SCHOOL IN FORT LAUDERDALE FLORIDA THE VALEDICTORIAN COMPETITION IS A HOT TOPIC I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO ELIMINATE IT BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING GOOD THE THREE CANDIDATES FOR THE TOP ACADEMIC SPOT AT THIS YEAR'S GRADUATION ARE STUDENTS IN THIS CLASS KHIARRA BRIDGES MELISSA DROLLER AND ALISON GRIFFIN ALL HAVE IDENTICAL GRADE POINTS AVERAGES AND STRAIGHT AS SINCE THEY WERE IN GRADE SCHOOL YOU HAVE ACHIEVED I'M PROUD OF ALL THREE OF YOU I NEVER SAW UGLINESS EVER AND YET IN SOME SCHOOLS I KNOW THAT CAN HAPPEN ALL THREE SAY THERE IS NO JEALOUSY AMONG THEM THEY'RE GOOD FRIENDS AND THEY SAY CRITICS ARE OVER REACTING I MEAN I NEVER REALLY LIKE SAT DOWN AND SAID IF I'M NOT VALEDICTORIAN I'M JUST GOING TO KILL MYSELF BUT A TASK FORCE IN THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS FORMALLY RECOMMENDED DROPPING THE RACE FOR VALEDICTORIAN POINTING TO THE STRESS THE COMPETITION CAUSES THESE STUDENTS SAY THAT'S NOT REALISTIC YOU GO THROUGH COLLEGE THERE'S THE JOB MARKET THE WHOLE WORLD OUT THERE IS FULL OF PRESSURE AND COMPETITION IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU'RE FORCED TO DO SO IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE WESTERN HIGH'S PRINCIPAL WANTS THE PRACTICE OF NAMING A VALEDICTORIAN STOPPED HE AGREES WITH OTHER ADMINISTRATORS WHO SAY IT'S UNFAIR TO STUDENTS WHO DON'T GET ACADEMIC RECOGNITION BUT DESERVE IT I DON'T HAVE JUST ONE OR TWO REALLY BRILLIANT YOUNG PEOPLE I HAVE QUITE A FEW TO LESSEN THE PRESSURE ON THESE TOP STUDENTS THE PRINCIPAL ABRUPTLY CALLED A HALT TO THE RACE FOR VALEDICTORIAN AND DECLARED IT A TIE ALL THREE WILL GRADUATE VALEDICTORIANS IN WESTERN HIGH'S CLASS OF NINETEEN NINETY SIX AS FOR THE BRIGHT YOUNG STUDENTS WHO WILL SHARE THE HONOR THEY DON'T MIND AT ALL ROBERT VITO C. N. N. FORT LAUDERDALE FLORIDA TONIGHT A RENEWED EFFORT TO FIGHT DRUGS WILL IT WORK WE CAN'T STOP DRUGS IF OUR SCHOOLS HOSPITALS AND COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO GET THE JOB DONE WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF CONGRESS TO DO THIS MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT THIS HAS GOT TO BE A BIPARTISAN AMERICAN NONPOLITICAL EFFORT FOR THREE YEARS WHERE HAS THIS LEADERSHIP BEEN IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY VACANT IT'S BEEN SILENT IT HASN'T EXISTED LIVE FROM WASHINGTON CROSSFIRE ON THE LEFT GERALDINE FERARRO ON THE RIGHT JOHN SUNUNU IN THE CROSSFIRE JOHN WALTERS FORMER DRUG POLICY DIRECTOR UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND IN NEW YORK DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN CHARLES RANGEL WELCOME TO CROSSFIRE TODAY IN MIAMI PRESIDENT CLINTON ANNOUNCED HIS NEW DRUG PLAN AS SOON AS HE DID THE REPUBLICANS YELLED POLITICS SOME LIBERAL DEMOCRATS YELLED NOT ENOUGH THE REPUBLICANS WANT MORE JAILS THE DEMOCRATS WANT MORE JOBS GENERAL MCCAFFREY THE CLINTON DRUG CZAR WANTS A STRATEGY THAT WILL WORK THE NUMBERS AREN'T GOOD THOUGH COCAINE USE IS DOWN THIRTY PERCENT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS USE OF MARIJUANA BY YOUNG PEOPLE AGED TWELVE TO SEVENTEEN HAS ALMOST DOUBLED BETWEEN NINETEEN NINETY TWO AND NINETY FOUR THOUGH DRUG RELATED HOMICIDES ARE DOWN TWENTY FIVE PERCENT THE ANNUAL SOCIAL COST OF ILLICIT DRUG USE IS SIXTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS MOSTLY FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF DRUG RELATED CRIME IS THIS JUST A PRESIDENTIAL POLITICAL PLOY OR IS IT A SAVVY SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT JOHN CONGRESSMAN RANGEL THANK YOU FOR JOINING US YOU'VE BEEN ONE OF THE MOST CONSISTENT OPPONENTS OF DRUG USE AND I WILL GIVE YOU CREDIT YOU HAVE BEEN STEADY IN YOUR CRITICISM OF BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ON THIS ISSUE THREE YEARS AGO YOU SAID THAT SOMEONE HAS TO TELL PRESIDENT CLINTON IT'S DRUGS STUPID WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE LAST THREE YEARS TO FINALLY GET THIS PRESIDENT TO CHANGE HIS MIND AND PERHAPS IN AN ELECTION YEAR BEGIN TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE DRUG ISSUE IT WASN'T ANYTHING THAT I PERSONALLY HAVE DONE I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT DRUG ABUSE IS THE BIGGEST THREAT THAT OUR NATION HAS AND PEOPLE CAN SAY IT'S POLITICAL BECAUSE IT'S A POLITICAL YEAR BUT ONE THING IS CLEAR WE CAN'T WIN THIS WAR IF WE'RE GOING TO BE PARTISAN AND WE CAN'T WIN THIS WAR WITH MEETINGS AND STRATEGIES WE HAVE TO BRING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR THE MEDIA A WAR REQUIRES ALL OF THE EFFORT AND ONE OF THE THINGS WHICH I THINK IS SHORT IN THIS SO CALLED STRATEGY IS THE RECOGNITION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR KIDS EDUCATED WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM WITH HOPES AND DREAMS AND THE POSSIBILITY TO GET JOBS IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE MILLION PEOPLE WE HAVE IN JAIL THAT ARE DRUG RELATED OFFENSES YOU WILL FIND THAT THE OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF THEM ARE UNEMPLOYABLE WE'VE GOT CONGRESSMAN RANGEL WE'VE GOT TO DO BETTER YOU'RE RIGHT EDUCATION'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS AND ATTITUDE IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF EDUCATION AND YOUNG PEOPLE TAKE MESSAGES FROM WHAT A PRESIDENT DOES THIS PRESIDENT HAD AS ONE OF HIS FIRST ACTS CUTTING BY EIGHTY THREE PERCENT THE WHITE HOUSE DRUG STAFF THAT SENDS A MESSAGE THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN AMERICA GOT THE WRONG MESSAGE HOW DO YOU GET A MESSAGE OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE THAT'S ON THE CONSTRUCTIVE SIDE AFTER THEY STARTED OFF ON SUCH A WRONG FOOT WELL JOHN LET ME TELL YOU THIS I WISH EVERY KID IN AMERICA WAS WATCHING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BUT I THINK YOU'RE JUST OVERLY OPTIMISTIC ON THAT I DID NOT STRENUOUSLY OVER OBJECT WHEN THE SO CALLED DRUG CZAR'S OFFICE WAS CUT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT MAKING THE DRUG CZAR PART OF THE CABINET THAT HE WOULD BE JUST ORCHESTRATING A STRATEGY BUT WE WOULD HEAR FROM THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION WE WOULD HEAR FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE THE SECRETARY OF LABOR THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES I THOUGHT THE GENERALS WOULD BE JUST COORDINATING THE REAL FIGHTERS AND SO NATURALLY WHEN THOSE RESOURCES WASN'T AVAILABLE THEN WE LOST THE LAST CZAR HE DIDN'T CALL ME HE DIDN'T SEND FLOWERS HE JUST LEFT AND SO I'M HOPING THAT THIS OUTSTANDING GENERAL WHO KNOWS HOW TO WIN A WAR WILL BE THERE TO UTILIZE THOSE RESOURCES AND HE SAYS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS PREPARED TO BACK HIM UP A HUNDRED PERCENT SO IT IS NOT REALLY THE NUMBER OF JOBS YOU HAVE IN THE OFFICE IT'S HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU BROUGHT TO THE BATTLE I'M SO GLAD TO SEE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS GOT THIS ISSUE ON TELEVISION HE'S GOT IT IN THE NEWSPAPERS I'M WAITING FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO SAY WE CAN'T WIN THIS WAR OF WORLD TRADE IF WE'VE GOT A MILLION AMERICANS IN JAIL A MILLION BEING ARRESTED EVERY YEAR AND CHARLIE LET ME HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS KILLED LET ME KIND OF MOVE OVER AND ASK MR. WALTERS A QUESTION ABOUT THIS BECAUSE SO THAT WE CAN HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY BASHING HERE YOU KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS OR HAS NOT DONE BUT YOU KNOW THE LAST TWO YEARS THIS NATION HAS BEEN SEIZED BY NEWT GINGRICH AND THE CONTRACT WITH AMERICA IN THE SIGNED CONTRACT WITH AMERICA THERE IS NOT ONE MENTION OF DRUGS NOW IS IT BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DON'T THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT NOT A COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OR DID THEY JUST FORGET IT WELL LOOK THE CONTRACT IS A PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA BASICALLY YOU CANNOT RUN ACCORDING TO NEWT IT'S THE WHOLE THING IT'S THE PICTURE IT'S WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO SURE AND I MEAN AND NEWT HAS EXPRESSED FRUSTRATION ABOUT DRUGS SAYING WE EITHER OUGHT TO GET MORE SERIOUS OR WE OUGHT TO SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE SERIOUS LOOK THE PROBLEM HERE IS NOT JUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAYS ALTHOUGH THE PRESIDENT AS A VERY IMPORTANT NATIONAL LEADER SETS AN AGENDA HERE THE ISSUE IS WHAT THE INSTITUTIONS TEACH YOU CAN'T SAY ONE THING IN THE CLASSROOM AND THEN SAY KIDS IN THE INNER CITY ARE GOING TO WALK PAST OPEN AIR DRUG MARKETS THAT YOU SAY ONE THING IN THE CLASSROOM WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT A FOREIGN POLICY PRIORITY WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THE RESOURCES GENERAL MCCAFFREY SAID DRUGS KILL DIRECTLY TEN THOUSAND AMERICANS A YEAR THAT'S A FOREIGN BASED THREAT FOR THE MOST PART WE'RE TALKING MOSTLY ABOUT CRACK COCAINE AS THE MOST INSIDIOUS THREAT IT'S NOT ON THE FOREIGN POLICY RADAR IT'S NOT ON THE RADAR FOR NATIONAL SECURITY FORCES AS WELL AS THE KIND OF CULTURAL LEADERSHIP THE PRESIDENT CAN BRING THE PRESIDENT NOT ONLY DIDN'T BRING LEADERSHIP THE PRESIDENT'S MOST FAMOUS STATEMENT ON DRUGS IS I DIDN'T INHALE AND THE MOST FAMOUS ADMINISTRATION ARGUMENT HERE WAS JOYCELYN ELDERS THAT'S A LITTLE BIT UNFAIR I MEAN NO BUT THAT'S WHAT THE KIDS HEAR BUT THAT'S NO THAT'S NOT THAT'S WHAT THE KIDS HEAR THAT REALLY ISN'T SO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT MCCAFFREY IS WHAT'S NOW COMING THROUGH IS HIS STRATEGY AND HE IS A NEW PERSON IN THAT POSITION HE IS HANDLING IT LIKE IT HAS BEEN HANDLED IN THE SERVICES AND IT THEY'RE A DRUG FREE BASICALLY DRUG FREE ARMED SERVICES NOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE STRATEGY THAT DEALS WITH EVERYTHING ACROSS THE LINE IT DEALS WITH PREVENTION DEALS WITH MOTIVATION IT DEALS WITH INTERDICTION IT DEALS WITH CUTTING DRUGS AT THE SOURCE THAT'S ALL GOING TO COST MONEY IT'S GOT TO COME FROM SOMEPLACE WHAT IS THE CONGRESS GOING TO DO AND I LOVE IT WHEN YOU SAY THAT NEWT SAYS GET SERIOUS ABOUT IT BUT IF THERE'S NO MONEY COMING OUT TO SUPPORT THESE PROGRAMS YOU CAN TALK ABOUT DRUG PROBLEMS AND NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THEM IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BUCKS TO DO IT WELL FIRST OF ALL THE ADMINISTRATION'S OWN STRATEGY SHOWS THAT OVERALL DRUG SPENDING INCREASED EVERY YEAR THE PROBLEM IS CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF DRUG SPENDING DIDN'T INCREASE AND THE LEADERSHIP AND USE OF THOSE EFFECTIVELY HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE WE CUT INTERDICTION SO WE HAVE CHEAPER MORE PLENTIFUL DRUGS YOU'RE GOING TO TELL KIDS ON THE ONE HAND DON'T USE DRUGS BUT WE HAVE RECORD LOW PRICES IN RECENT YEARS FOR MARIJUANA FOR HEROIN AND FOR COCAINE ON OUR STREETS THE QUESTION IS WE CAN USE OUR MILITARY FORCES TO PROTECT THE KURDS AND CREATE NO_FLY ZONES IN IRAQ WHY CAN'T WE CREATE SOME NO_FLY ZONES TO PROTECT INNER CITY KIDS CHARLIE RANGEL LET'S GET THE NUMBERS ON SPENDING STRAIGHT FROM MY IN NINETEEN EIGHTY NINE TO NINETEEN NINETY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION INCREASED SPENDING ON THE WAR ON DRUGS FROM ABOUT SIX BILLION DOLLARS TO ALMOST ELEVEN BILLION DOLLARS AND OVER THE PERIOD OF FOUR YEARS ALMOST DOUBLED THE AMOUNT SPENT IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS THE SPENDING WAS VIRTUALLY FLAT EQUAL TO THE LAST YEAR OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WITH INFLATION THAT'S AN ACTUAL CUT HOW COME YOU AND YOUR DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS LET THIS PRESIDENT LITERALLY GUT THE PROGRAMS THE FIRST TWO YEARS I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN MEASURE SUCCESS JUST BY THE AMOUNT OF BUCKS THAT WE HAVE YOU USED TO THROW THOSE NUMBERS AT ME ALL THE TIME CHARLIE NO NO WHAT I'M TALKING YOU USED TO SAY BUCKS WERE IMPORTANT JOHN JOHN WHAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID TO YOU AND I'M TALKING ABOUT NOT PRESIDENT CLINTON OR BUSH OR REAGAN I'M SAYING FOR TWENTY FIVE YEARS WE'VE NOT HEARD FROM ANY SECRETARY OF STATE TO DEAL WITH THE REAL PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE FACING WITH MEXICO SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE DRUGS COME ACROSS THAT BORDER AND I SAW IN THE RECENT REPORT THAT THE DRUG CZAR LEFT MEXICO THE SAME LANGUAGE I SHARED IT WITH BEN GILMAN WHO'S A REPUBLICAN SAYING THAT THEY PROMISE TO DEAL WITH CORRUPTION THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT EXTRADITING MEXICANS THAT'S BEEN INDICTED THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT MONEY LAUNDERING WE'VE GOT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE COCOA LEAVES COMING OUT OF PERU AND NOW WE SAY PERU IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THEY'RE GOING TO COOPERATE WITH US I'M SAYING ENOUGH OF BEING THE NICE GUY THIS IS A THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DOLLARS I TELL YOU VOICES AND ACTION ARE BETTER THAN DOLLARS THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION'S BEING PAID EVERY SECRETARY OF EDUCATION SHOULD BE ON THE FRONT LINES SAYING AMERICA CANNOT SUCCEED OUR ECONOMY CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE A MILLION PEOPLE IN JAIL CHARLIE WE HAD A SUMMIT IN COLOMBIA AT CARTEGENA IN WHICH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE STATE FOCUSED ON THOSE ISSUES BIG DEAL SO YOU WENT TO NOW YOU HAVE AN ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS PUSHED THIS ASIDE THAT HAS GIVEN THE WRONG SIGNAL BY THEIR JOHN I'M ATTITUDE THAT HAD A SURGEON GENERAL THAT TALKED ABOUT LEGALIZING DRUGS AND WHERE IS SHE JOHN I AM SO SURPRISED THAT YOU WOULD BRING UP CARTEGENA I STOOD I PRAISED THE PRESIDENT HE WENT TO SOUTH AMERICA HE MET IN COLOMBIA HE BROUGHT THE DRUG PRODUCING AND TRAFFICKING COUNTRIES THERE HAS ANYTHING CHANGED AS A RESULT OF BUSH GOING THERE WE HAD RONALD REAGAN ONLY DURING THE BUSH YEARS LET ME TELL YOU NOT SINCE THE ADMINISTRATION CHANGED LET ME TELL YOU THIS EVEN WHEN RONALD REAGAN WAS THERE AND I SAY IT TODAY I NEVER THOUGHT THAT I'D MISS NANCY REAGAN BUT YOU KNOW SHE WAS THE JUST SAY NO THAT WAS THE CAMPAIGN BILL BENNETT I THOUGHT HE JUST TALKED BUT THEN WHEN I DIDN'T HEAR ANYMORE TALKING I APPRECIATE HIM TOO SO LET US COME TOGETHER GRASP THIS OPPORTUNITY AND SEE WHERE WE GO FROM HERE POINTING OUT OUR FAILURES IN THE PAST JOHN WILL NOT HELP US HERE WELL WE NEED AMERICA SAYING WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM WE'VE GOT ONE PRESIDENT AT A TIME ONE DRUG CZAR LET'S SUPPORT THEM LET ME JUST ADD ONE THING THOUGH CHARLIE SINCE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT LET ME ASK YOU WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO BOB DOLE I MEAN HERE'S A PERSON WHO VOTED AGAINST THE DRUG OFFICE CREATION OF THE DRUG OFFICE IN NINETEEN EIGHTY TWO WHEN THE PRESIDENT INTRODUCED MCCAFFREY AT THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS PERFECT INVITATION FOR DOLE TO SPEAK ABOUT DRUGS IN HIS RESPONSE NEVER MENTIONED THE WORD WE HAVE YET TO HEAR HIM SAY ANYTHING HE'S BEEN PART OF THE SENATE LEADERSHIP FOR TWENTY SOME ODD YEARS AND WE'VE NEVER HEARD HIM TALK ABOUT DRUGS AT ANY TIME WELL THERE HAS BEEN I THINK A PROBLEM IN GETTING HEARD I THINK THERE IS A NEED TO DO MORE THE MAN IS MAJORITY LEADER OF THE SENATE HOW IS HE NOT HEARD AND AS MAJORITY LEADER AND WITH SPEAKER GINGRICH AFTER A LOT OF FRUSTRATION THEY CREATED A TASK FORCE THAT RELEASED A REPORT ABOUT THE THEIR OWN PRINCIPLES OF A DRUG STRATEGY SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ALSO I THINK YOU HAVE TO FACE THE FACT THAT SENATOR DOLE WAS ONE WHO SENT A LETTER TO PRESIDENT CLINTON PRIOR TO THE DRUG CERTIFICATION PROCESS AND SAID THE PROBLEMS IN MEXICO ARE MORE SERIOUS YOU BETTER TAKE THEM MORE SERIOUSLY AND I THINK MANY OF THOSE THOUGHTS TRACK WHAT MR. RANGEL SAID I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT SUCCESSES WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN REDUCING YOUTHFUL DRUG USE BETWEEN ITS PEAK IN SEVENTY NINE AND NINETY TWO BY OVER EIGHTY PERCENT WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS IF WE PAY ATTENTION IT IS INVOLVES MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT BUT IT INVOLVES A LEADERSHIP THAT DOESN'T UNDERMINE AND DOESN'T DISMANTLE INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN WE COME BACK WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND SOME OF THE PROGRAMS THAT ACTUALLY WORK NOT LONG AGO NANCY REAGAN TAUGHT OUR YOUNG PEOPLE TO JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS THAT WAS JUST ONE DEMONSTRATION OF COMMITTED LEADERSHIP AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL FOR WHICH SHE WAS RIDICULED AT THE TIME FOR THREE YEARS MANY OF US HAVE BEEN CAMPAIGNING TO GET THE PRESIDENT TO JUST SAY SOMETHING AND SAY IT LOUDLY AND CONSISTENTLY PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS BEEN A. W. O. L. ABSENT WITHOUT LEADERSHIP IN THIS WAR AGAINST DRUGS WELCOME BACK TO CROSSFIRE WE'RE ADDRESSING ONE OF AMERICA'S MOST CRITICAL PROBLEMS THE USE OF DRUGS OUR GUESTS ARE JOHN WALTERS FORMER DIRECTOR FOR DRUG POLICY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND CONGRESSMAN CHARLES RANGEL OF NEW YORK WHO'S BEEN ONE OF THE MOST OUTSPOKEN SUPPORTERS OF A COMPREHENSIVE ANTI DRUG PROGRAM AND JOINING US NOW IS THOMAS HEDRICK VICE CHAIRMAN FOR THE PARTNERSHIP FOR A DRUG FREE AMERICA GERRY WELL IF I COULD BRING TOM DIRECTLY INTO THE CONVERSATION I'M ALWAYS SURPRISED TOM WHEN I HEAR CONSERVATIVES LIKE BILL BUCKLEY TALK ABOUT ADDRESSING THIS PROBLEM OF DRUGS WITH LEGALIZATION IN THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN TODAY HE COMES OUT FIRMLY AGAINST LEGALIZATION WHO'S RIGHT I THINK LEGALIZATION WOULD BE CATASTROPHIC AS A SUGGESTION AS A PART OF DRUG STRATEGY LEGALIZATION WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF OUR KIDS WHO USE DRUGS WHICH WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ADDICTED WHICH LONG TERM WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN CRIME AND VIOLENCE AND GET AIDS AND IT WOULD BE A CATASTROPHIC MOVE AND IN TRUTH THERE IS VERY LITTLE SUPPORT FROM ANYBODY WHO'S REALLY INVOLVED IN TRYING TO FIGHT DRUGS AND GET FEWER OF OUR PEOPLE TO USE DRUGS TO THAT SUPPORT IT'S REALLY NOT PART OF THE NATIONAL DEBATE TOM HEDRICK ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE THINGS IN TRYING TO GET KIDS TO STOP USING DRUGS WAS THE PRIVATE SECTOR PARTNERSHIP THEY CUT SOME GREAT ADS THAT REALLY GOT THE MESSAGE ACROSS IS THERE ANY PLANS TO CONTINUE AND INCREASE THAT EFFORT ABSOLUTELY WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT AND I THINK ALL OF US WE CAN POINT THE FINGER OF BLAME UNTIL THE COWS COME HOME AND IT'S REALLY NOT GOING TO HELP ADDRESS THE CATASTROPHE OF SO MANY MORE OF OUR KIDS USING DRUGS OVER THE PAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS AND THIS WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WORKS WHEN OUR KIDS SEE USING DRUGS AS MORE HARMFUL AND LESS SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE LESS THE SOCIAL NORM THEY USE LESS DRUGS FEWER PEOPLE USE DRUGS AND IF WE GET THAT INFORMATION AS A SOCIETY THROUGH THE MEDIA IN SCHOOLS THROUGH OUR LEADERSHIP CONGRESS AND THE ADMINISTRATION IN SCHOOL EDUCATION WHEN OUR KIDS GET THAT CONSISTENT MESSAGE THAT NO USE IS THE CLEARLY EXPECTED NORM THEN THEY MAKE BETTER DECISIONS JUST AS THEY DID FROM THE NINETEEN EIGHTIES TO THE NINETEEN EARLY NINETEEN NINETIES AND THE PROOF IS IN THE FACTS FROM NINETEEN EIGHTY FIVE TO NINETEEN NINETY FOUR THERE ARE TEN MILLION FEWER PEOPLE USING ILLICIT DRUGS BECAUSE WE SPOKE AS MR. RANGEL SAID WITH A UNIFIED VOICE THAT THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE CONGRESSMAN RANGEL THAT PRIVATE SECTOR PARTICIPATION REALLY IS ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED WHAT OTHER ACT THOUGH YOU'VE SAID YOU WANT THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE TELL US SPECIFICALLY BEYOND THAT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO I WOULD HOPE THAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR WITH ITS VISION AS TO WHAT THE LABOR FORCE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE BEYOND THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND WOULD GET TOGETHER WITH THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION THE PRESIDENT OR OTHER BUSINESS LEADERS THEY RECENTLY HAD A MEETING AND DEMAND FROM THE UNITED STATES THAT WE PROVIDE THE TYPE OF TECHNICIANS THAT'S GOING TO BE NECESSARY FOR US TO MAINTAIN A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN WORLD TRADE AND TO EMPHASIZE THE FACT THAT WE NEED PEOPLE WHO ARE HEALTHY WE DON'T NEED A LOT OF JAIL MATES WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO PRODUCE WE HAVE TO HAVE THE JOB TRAINING RELATED TO THE NEEDS OUR KIDS IN THE INNER CITIES CANNOT BE GOING TO MORE FUNERALS THAN GRADUATIONS BUT YOU JUST CAN'T TELL KIDS JUST TO SAY NO YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM A REASON TO SAY YES WITH PRIDE AND DIGNITY AND THE ABILITY TO WORK SO THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO ME WHENEVER WE HAVE A WAR THEY'RE THE FIRST ONES TO COME FORWARD AND SAY THIS IS WHAT WE CAN CONTRIBUTE SO WE NEED THAT PARTNERSHIP WELL THE OTHER THING THOUGH IS THAT GENERAL MCCAFFREY HAS SAID THAT THIS IS NOT SO MUCH A WAR AS A CANCER THAT WE'RE TREATING AND HE SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO TREAT IT IN VERY MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TRUE YOU HAVE TO DO THE INTERDICTION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BUT HE TALKS ABOUT EDUCATION DRUG TREATMENT COUNSELING JOB TRAINING ALL THE THINGS THAT CHARLIE IS TALKING ABOUT I MEAN WHERE DO YOU THINK THOSE FIT INTO THE MIX AND DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE TO BE PART OF IT WELL THEY'RE IMPORTANT BUT THERE ARE TWO THINGS ONE DRUG USE IS AN ACID THAT CORRODES HOPES FROM EVERYBODY BUT PARTICULARLY WHERE IT'S CONCENTRATED WE ALREADY HAVE DRUG LEGALIZATION FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES AN OPEN AIR DRUG MARKET IS DRUG LEGALIZATION PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS AS WELL AS PRIVATE COMMUNITIES HAVE TO CLOSE THOSE DOWN BUT WE SPEND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO SPEND OVER TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS ON JOB TRAINING IN ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY FIVE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THE WHOLE DRUG STRATEGY IS FIFTEEN BILLION DOLLARS WE'RE NOT UNDERSPENDING IN THESE AREAS INSTITUTIONS ARE NOT PERFORMING WE HAVE A HARDCORE AGING ADDICT POPULATION MANY OF WHOM HAVE BEEN CYCLED THROUGH TREATMENT OVER AND OVER AGAGIN AS LONG AS WE HAVE UNCONTROLLED SUPPLY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ADDICTION THE PROBLEM IS POOR PEOPLE WHO ARE THE PRIMARY IF YOU'RE NOT POOR WHEN YOU START OUT BY THE TIME YOU END UP A HARDCORE ADDICT YOU ARE A POOR PERSON YOU GET LOUSY EDUCATION YOU GET LOUSY DRUG TREATMENT YOU GET LOUSY PUBLIC SAFETY WE HAVE TO MAKE PUBLIC INSTI PRIVATE SECTOR IS IMPORTANT BUT PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS CAN'T TAKE A BUY BUT YOU'VE GOT AND POINT THE OTHER FINGER YOU'VE GOT TO MOVE THOUGH IN BOTH DIRECTIONS YOU'RE SAYING BOTH SUPPLY AND DEMAND I AGREE I AGREE TOM HEDRICK COULD I INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND I THINK THE DISAGREEMENT TENDS TO MASK THAT THERE'S ENORMOUS CONSENSUS AND AGREEMENT ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE YOU KNOW THE FIVE KEY POINTS OF THE STRATEGY REDUCING DRUG USE AMONG KIDS HELPING THE SAFETY OF OUR CITIZENS BY REDUCING DRUG RELATED CRIME BETTER TREATMENT BETTER LAW ENFORCEMENT AND BETTER INTERDICTION ALL OF US WOULD AGREE EACH ARE NECESSARY NONE IS SUFFICIENT AND I THINK REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGREE ON THAT JUST AS WE SAW WITH MR. RANGEL'S PARTICIPATION ON MEET THE PRESS YESTERDAY MORNING WE HAVE GOOD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT WE KNOW FROM RECENT POLLS THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS HOW SERIOUS THIS ISSUE IS WE LEST WE GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO AND WE ARE IN TOTAL DISARRAY AND DISAGREEMENT WE ARE VERY MUCH IN AGREEMENT AND WE ASK EVERYBODY TOM TOM HEDRICK TO HELP WHAT CAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR DO TO WORK ON ONE AREA HERE CONGRESSMAN RANGEL HAS ALWAYS FOCUSED ON THAT'S THESE FOLKS THAT GET THEMSELVES THROWN INTO PRISON WITH A DRUG PROBLEM AND COME OUT WITH A DRUG PROBLEM THEY NEED JOB TRAINING THEY NEED A REHABILITATION PROGRAM THAT WORKS WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION OF THAT PROBLEM THE BEST THING TO DO IS FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO GET INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNICATION COALITIONS THAT ARE SPRINGING UP ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY WE KNOW WE HAVE ALREADY ALMOST FIVE THOUSAND COMMUNITY COALITIONS THAT HAVE ANTI DRUG GROUPS THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE DEVELOPMENT OF DRUG COURTS AND IN PRISON SLASH IN JAIL TREATMENT AND FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED REAL REHABILITATION WE CAN GET GOOD AFTERCARE AFTER THERAPEUTIC COMMUNITIES THAT OBVIOUSLY INCLUDES HELPING KEEP PEOPLE OFF DRUGS MONITORING THAT THROUGH RESEARCH AND HELPING GET THEM IN JOB TRAINING TO GET THEM BACK INTO THE MAINSTREAM OF THE COMMUNITY THIS WILL ALL HAPPEN AT THE COMMUNITY WHEN WE FOCUS OUR EFFORTS ON THAT SOURCE TOM HEDRICK THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US CONGRESSMAN RANGEL IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU JOHN WALTERS THANK YOU FOR JOINING US GERRY AND I WILL BE BACK IN A MINUTE WITH OUR VERSION OF A SOLUTION GERRY WELCOME BACK YOU AND BILL PRESS ARE GOING TO BE ALTERNATING WEEKS AND SO WE'RE BACK TO AN ALMOST REGULAR SCHEDULE HERE YEAH IT'S GOING TO BE FUN BACK TO THE DRUG ISSUE AS MUCH AS FOLKS SAY YOU SHOULDN'T LOOK BACK I THINK A CRITICAL ISSUE IS LEADERSHIP AND THE ATTITUDE IT GENERATES AND THIS PRESIDENT I THINK GOT OFF ON THE WRONG FOOT WHEN HIS FIRST CONTRIBUTION TO THE ISSUE WAS DON'T INHALE AND THE SECOND CONTRIBUTION WAS A SURGEON GENERAL THAT STARTED TALKING ABOUT LEGALIZING BUT THAT'S UNFAIR I MEAN FIRST OF ALL HE HAD A TERRIFIC DRUG CZAR A GUY BY THE NAME OF LEE BROWN WHO IS THE POLICE COMMISSIONER OF NEW YORK AND WHO JUST WAS YOU KNOW HE WAS A GOOD POLICE COMMISSIONER AND HE CAME IN AND DID THE JOB THAT HE HAD TO DO I THINK NOW LET ME JUST SAY A POINT ABOUT THE SURGEON GENERAL SHE'S NO LONGER WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AS YOU KNOW THE OUT FAST HERE'S A MAN WHO IS REALLY MAKING GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE MCCAFFREY'S A VERY GOOD DRUG CZAR HE WILL BE THE PERSON WHO WILL GET THE BUT I HOPE WHOLE PROGRAM GOING BUT THE OTHER PEOPLE I HOPE THERE'S SOME LEADERSHIP WITH TOUGH TALK JOHN FROM THE HOUSE AND FROM THE SENATE TOO THIS BOB DOLE SHOULDN'T JUST BE WAKING UP NOW TO THE FACT THAT DRUGS ARE A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY THE FIRST TIME THE BUDGET WENT UP WAS WHEN THERE WAS A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS THE FIRST WELL WHERE HAS BOB DOLE BEEN FLAT FUNDING FROM THE LEFT I'M GERALDINE FERARRO GOOD NIGHT FOR CROSSFIRE AND FROM THE RIGHT I'M JOHN SUNUNU TOMORROW NIGHT ON CROSSFIRE GASOLINE PRICES OUT OF SIGHT WHOSE FAULT IS IT AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT DON'T MISS IT ON CROSSFIRE THE DEATH TOLL HAS REACHED THIRTY FOUR NOW IN A SHOOTING SPREE IN PORT ARTHUR A POPULAR TOURIST CITY ON THE AUSTRALIAN ISLAND OF TASMANIA NINETEEN PEOPLE WERE WOUNDED BY A LONE RIFLEMAN YESTERDAY AT LEAST FOUR OF THEM CRITICALLY THE SUSPECT WAS CAPTURED WHEN HE RAN FROM A BED AND BREAKFAST HOTEL AFTER SETTING FIRE TO IT HE HAD HELD THREE HOSTAGES OVERNIGHT IN THE HOTEL CLIMAXING A RAMPAGE THAT LEFT DEAD AND WOUNDED PEOPLE IN AND AROUND A NEIGHBORING CAFE INCLUDING CHILDREN AT THIS LOCATION HALFWAY UP THE HILL BETWEEN CHURCH AND THE TOLLBOOTH POLICE CAME ACROSS THE BODY OF A WOMAN AND HER THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER LYING ON THE ROADWAY AND THE BODY OF THE SIX YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WHO WAS BEHIND THE TREE IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MOTHER WAS CARRYING THE THREE YEAR OLD BABY WHEN THEY WERE BOTH SHOT AND THE SIX YEAR OLD RAN AWAY TRYING TO ESCAPE AND WAS SHOT IN THE PROCESS THE GUNMAN SUFFERED MINOR INJURIES IN THE FIRE AT THE HOTEL AND WAS TAKEN TO A HOSPITAL FOR TREATMENT AUTHORITIES HAVE NOT NAMED THE SUSPECT BUT THEY SAY HE IS TWENTY EIGHT YEARS OLD AND THEY BELIEVE HE HAS A HISTORY OF MENTAL ILLNESS THAT MAY INCLUDE SCHIZOPHRENIA ONE REPORT SAYS THE GUNMAN IS FROM THE TASMANIAN CAPITAL OF HOBART THAT'S ABOUT THIRTY MILES FROM PORT ARTHUR BUT THERE IS NO OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION OF THAT REPORT NOW REPORTER JOHN RAEDLER IS IN HOBART HE NOW JOINS US BY TELEPHONE WITH A STEP BY STEP ACCOUNT OF THE PORT ARTHUR MASSACRE JOHN BILL IT ALL STARTED ABOUT THIRTY HOURS AGO A MAN DROVE IN TO THE PORT ARTHUR HISTORIC SITE A REVERED RELIC OF AUSTRALIA'S CONVICT ERA HE GOT OUT OF THE CAR WHICH ODDLY HAD A SURFBOARD ON TOP OF IT HE CARRIED A TENNIS BAG HE WALKED INTO A CROWDED LUNCHTIME CAFE HE WAS MUTTERING TO HIMSELF SOME EYEWITNESSES SAY THEY HEARD HIM TALK ABOUT WAR AND JETS HE PULLED A RIFLE FROM THE TENNIS BAG AND STARTED SHOOTING THE DEATH TOLL THERE IN THE CAFE TWENTY PEOPLE HE WALKED OUTSIDE THE CAFE SHOT AT A BUS KILLED A BUS DRIVER THREE PEOPLE STANDING BY THE BUS HE THEN WENT ON HIS RAMPAGE THROUGH THIS HISTORIC SITE HE SHOT THE MOTHER AND THE TWO LITTLE CHILDREN YOU JUST HEARD ABOUT HE THEN COMMANDED OR COMMANDEERED A CAR AND TOOK THAT CAR AND DROVE TO THIS GUEST HOUSE WHERE THE WHOLE THING REACHED ITS FIERY CLIMAX TODAY BUT ALONG THE WAY HE SHOT AT MORE PEOPLE SEVERAL CARS ALONG THE WAY SHOT AND KILLED DRIVERS SHOT AND KILLED PASSENGERS SO IT LASTED LESS THAN TWENTY FOUR HOURS BUT IT ENDED WITH THIRTY FOUR PEOPLE DEAD AT LEAST AND THERE IS STILL ONE OF THE HOSTAGES UNACCOUNTED FOR POLICE BELIEVE BUT THAT HOSTAGE PERISHED IN THE FIERY FINALE TO TODAY'S EVENTS SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A FINAL DEATH TOLL PROBABLY OF THIRTY FIVE JOHN QUICKLY HERE DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA AT THIS TIME HOW THAT FIRE STARTED NO WE DON'T POLICE ARE ASSUMING THE MAN LIT IT WHY HE DID SO WE DON'T KNOW AND ALSO WHY HE DID WHAT HE DID POLICE IF THEY DO KNOW THEY'RE NOT SAYING THEY DO SUGGEST THEY HAVE SOME IDEAS BUT NO OFFICIAL WORD ON WHAT MOTIVATED THIS PERSON TO SUCH APPARENT HEIGHTS OF MADNESS O. K. JOHN RAEDLER FROM HOBART BY TELEPHONE THIS MORNING THANKS FOR THAT REPORT SO BILL WHAT WERE YOU IN YOUR FORMER LIFE I'M NOT QUITE SURE AND I DON'T KNOW IF I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WELL FOR THE SKEPTICAL PAST LIFE THERAPY MAY SEEM TOTALLY FAR FETCHED YES BUT C. N. N. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT RHONDA ROWLAND SAYS FOR BELIEVERS WHO THEY WERE IN PREVIOUS LIVES AFFECTS WHO THEY ARE NOW WITH EACH GENTLE BREATH YOU TAKE ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME MORE AND MORE DEEPLY RELAXED THE REVEREND BETTY LEE BELIEVES SHE IS TAKING CLIENTS JANE AND BARBARA BACK IN TIME WHEN YOU PASS THROUGH THE DOOR INTO THE LIGHT YOU WILL BE IN ANOTHER TIME ON A JOURNEY TO MEET THEIR FORMER SELVES IN A FORMER LIFE WHAT YEAR IS IT IT IS A FORM OF THERAPY CALLED PAST LIFE REGRESSION THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THAT IT WORKS IS WHEN YOU GO BACK INTO A PAST LIFE OR WHAT YOU THINK MAY BE A PAST LIFE YOU EXPERIENCE CERTAIN THINGS CERTAIN EMOTIONS CERTAIN EVENTS IT IS DESIGNED TO HELP PEOPLE WITH THEIR PROBLEMS BUT WHAT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN PAST LIVES I THINK ANYONE CAN DO IT AS LONG AS THEY ARE RECEPTIVE TO WHATEVER IMAGES OR THOUGHTS OR IMPRESSIONS THAT COME THROUGH FIND OUT THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS OR YOUR SYMPTOMS LEE PUTS HER CLIENTS IN A STATE OF DEEP RELAXATION THEN SHE BRINGS THEM BACK AND ASKS WHO THEY WERE AND WHAT THEY LEARNED I WAS AN INDIAN AND THE PEOPLE AROUND WERE WHITE PEOPLE DID YOU GET ANY IMPRESSIONS ABOUT WHAT YEAR IT WAS ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED FIFTEEN WHAT FEELINGS OR EMOTIONS DID YOU CARRY OVER WITH YOU INTO SPIRIT FEAR AND MISTRUST BETTY LEE HAS NO EDUCATION IN PSYCHOLOGY HER BUSINESS CARD ADVERTISES AIR CANDLING AND TAROT READINGS WELL IT HAS BEEN VERY FLAKY AND WE'RE TRYING TO CLEAN IT UP A BIT WINAFRED LUCAS HAS A DOCTORATE IN PSYCHOLOGY ALTHOUGH A MAJOR ADVOCATE OF PAST LIFE REGRESSION SHE BELIEVES IT SHOULD BE USED SPARINGLY AND ONLY BY A CREDITED THERAPIST USUALLY YOU DO YOUR THERAPY TO BRING THE PERSON INTO A BETTER MENTAL HEALTH WHEN HE'S READY THEN HE CAN DO PAST LIFE YOU DON'T CHOOSE PAST LIVES TO HELP HIM GET TO GET OVER A MENTAL PROBLEM SCOTT LILIENFELD IS A PSYCHOLOGIST AND MEMBER OF THE GEORGIA SKEPTICS HE SAYS THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE PAST LIFE THERAPY WORKS OR IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER KIND OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TREATMENT MANY OF THESE TECHNIQUES INCLUDING PAST LIFE REGRESSION THERAPY MAY ACTUALLY DISTRACT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE CENTRAL PROBLEM AND THEREFORE DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM CONFRONTING AND DEALING WITH CURRENT ISSUES OF IMPORTANCE IN THEIR DAILY LIVES BELIEVING THAT SOMETHING IN A PAST LIFE HAS BEEN TOUCHED MAY HELP SOME WITH THE PRESENT BUT IT MAY BE A JOURNEY THAT CAN BE BYPASSED BY CONVENTIONAL THERAPY RHONDA ROWLAND C. N. N. REPORTING THE SENATE AND HOUSE DIFFER OVER WHETHER INSURERS SHOULD PROVIDE EXTENSIVE MENTAL HEALTH COVERAGE AMERICA'S BUSINESSES ARE JOINING THE DEBATE SAYING THEIR PROFITS COULD BE AFFECTED WE GO BACK NOW TO C. N. N. SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT CHARLES BIERBAUER ON CAPITOL HILL THIS TIME WITH A GUEST GOOD MORNING AGAIN CHARLES GOOD MORNING AGAIN ANDREA THE HEALTH CARE DEBATE WILL GO ON BECAUSE THE TWO BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE DO DIFFER ON A COUPLE OF THINGS ONE IS MEDICAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS KIND OF LIKE AN I. R. A. FOR PEOPLE TO STORE UP MONEY TO COVER THEIR HEALTH CARE AND THE OTHER ONE IS MENTAL HEALTH CARE WHICH IS IN THE SENATE VERSION IT CALLS FOR EQUAL PROVISIONS FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE AS WELL AS PHYSICAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT IS TO SAY IT WOULD RAISE THE CAPS MOST HEALTH PROVISIONS HAVE LIMITS ON HOW MUCH MENTAL HEALTH CARE THERE CAN BE WE WANT TO TALK WITH JEFF JOSEPH WHO'S A VICE PRESIDENT FOR DOMESTIC POLICY AT THE U. S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE MR. JOSEPH GOOD MORNING GOOD MORNING THE CHAMBER IS TAKING A POSITION THAT THIS IS UNAFFORDABLE FOR MOST BUSINESSES WHY IS THAT WELL THE WHOLE DEBATE HAS BEEN HOW WE MAKE HEALTH CARE MORE AVAILABLE MORE AFFORDABLE TO THE MASSES HOW DO WE MAKE IT PRICED SO SMALL BUSINESSES CAN MAKE THE PRODUCT AVAILABLE TO THEIR EMPLOYEES SINCE THE SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE THE ONES CREATING THE JOBS AND OUT OF THE BLUE FOR WELL INTENTIONED REASONS WE HAD AN AMENDMENT THAT SAID WELL MENTAL HEALTH SHOULD GET THE EXACT SAME UNLIMITED TREATMENT THAT ANYTHING ELSE GETS AND UNFORTUNATELY IT'S UNDEFINED WHAT THAT IS THE COST COULD BE SO HIGH IT WILL BASICALLY CREATE COST PRESSURES TO KEEP ALL OTHER HEALTH CARE DOWN AND THAT'S WHAT EMPLOYERS DON'T WANT TO SEE RIGHT NOW I HAVE SEEN INSTRUMENTS THAT RANGE FROM FOUR TO ELEVEN PERCENT OF THE COST OF THE INCREASED MENTAL HEALTH COVERAGE IS THAT ALL THAT MUCH I MEAN THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AN EXORBITANT AMOUNT IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HEALTHIER POPULATION WELL I THINK THE NUMBERS SHOW THAT EVERY TIME HEALTH CARE COSTS GO UP ONE PERCENT YOU LOSE ABOUT THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT WE HAD A SIMILAR DEBATE IN NINETEEN EIGHTY EIGHT TRYING TO GET BIPARTISAN SUPPORT TO GET SOME OF THESE REFORMS THROUGH WE DIDN'T GET THEM THROUGH THEN AND SINCE THEN THIRTEEN MILLION PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR PRIVATE INSURANCE BECAUSE COSTS KEEP GOING UP BECAUSE EMPLOYERS CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THEIR EMPLOYEES THIS SEEMS THEN TO BE SOLELY BASED ON COST NOT NECESSARILY ON QUESTIONING WHETHER IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PROVIDE MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR YOUR WORKERS WELL NINETY NINE PERCENT OF ALL EMPLOYERS WHO PROVIDE COVERAGE TODAY PROVIDE SOME FORM OF MENTAL HEALTH COVERAGE BUT THE POINT IS THAT MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENTS AND PROTOCOLS AREN'T AS SPECIFIC AS OTHER DISEASES YOU KNOW THAT IF AN APPENDECTOMY IS GOING TO REQUIRE SO MUCH TREATMENT SO MUCH COST AND YOU CAN BUDGET FOR THAT MENTAL HEALTH IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT NOT THAT THERE AREN'T SERIOUS PEOPLE WITH SEVERE MENTAL PROBLEMS BUT THE LEGISLATION IS SO VAGUE THAT ANYONE WHO FEELS THEY SAW ELVIS OR WENT AWAY IN A U. F. O. AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME COULD DRIVE UP THOSE COSTS BUT YOU ALSO HAVE EXTREME CASES I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE PARALLEL IS APT BUT IT'S COINCIDENT IN TIME THIS CASE DOWN IN AUSTRALIA THE TRAGEDY OF PEOPLE BEING GUNNED DOWN IN THE STREET BY SOMEONE WHO APPARENTLY HAD MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS IF THIS IS AVAILABLE THE BETTER CARE IN THE WORK PLACE WOULD THAT NOT LEAD TO I CAN'T MAKE THE ASSOCIATION IN THIS CASE BUT A GENERAL SENSE THAT THE PUBLIC IS BETTER CARED FOR WELL WE'RE GOING TOWARD MANAGED CARE MANAGED CARE IS THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO MAKE HEALTH CARE PRACTICE MUCH MORE THE SCIENCE AND LESS OF AN ART BY DOING SO WHAT YOU'RE FINDING IN MANAGED CARE SYSTEMS IS MORE EMPHASIS ON PREVENTIVE CARE ON PRE DIAGNOSIS AND BECAUSE MOST HEALTH CARE POLICIES HAVE SOME MENTAL HEALTH PROVISIONS NOW I THINK THE TENDENCY WOULD BE TO START THINKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS UP FRONT BUT TO HAVE OPEN ENDED COVERAGE FOR ANYONE FOR ANY ILL DEFINED REASON OR ANY I DON'T FEEL GOOD I DON'T FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF I THINK I NEED A LOT OF SESSIONS THAT CAN ONLY DRIVE UP THE COST FOR OTHER PEOPLE AS YOU TALK TO PEOPLE HERE ON CAPITOL HILL IS IT YOUR EXPECTATION THAT THIS PROVISION WILL GO AWAY WHEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE TRY AND RECONCILE THEIR DIFFERENCES THAT THIS WILL NOT BE ON THE FINAL BILL WELL IT IS A POLITICAL YEAR IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR THIS LEGISLATION PASSED THE SENATE ONE HUNDRED TO NOTHING WHICH TELLS YOU THERE'S A HUNDRED SENATORS WHO WANT TO BE IN FAVOR OF HEALTH CARE REFORM HOWEVER THIS IS A PROBLEM IT WON'T PASS PROBABLY WITH THIS IN IT AND SO THE QUESTION IS ARE THEY GOING TO BLINK AND PASS A STRAIGHT BILL THAT WILL DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR THE COUNTRY OR THEY CAN GET BOGGED DOWN IN POLITICS ALL RIGHT JEFF JOSEPH FOR THE U. S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US THE DEBATE IS STILL TO BE SETTLED THE HOUSE AND SENATE DO HAVE TO CONFER ON THEIR DIFFERENCES THAT HAS NOT YET TAKEN PLACE WE'LL KEEP OUR EYE ON IT THANKS CHARLES CHARLES BIERBAUER REPORTING ONCE AGAIN FROM CAPITOL HILL THIS MORNING YOU KNOW FOR A LONG TIME IT WAS A MAN'S WORLD BUT POCKET BILLIARDS IS CHANGING MORE AND MORE WOMEN ARE GETTING INTO THE SPORT YEAH AND AT THIS TIME THEY'RE NOT ONLY RACKING UP THE BALLS BUT BIG MONEY PRIZES AS WELL C. N. N.'S JANINE SHARELL HAS MORE ON A ONCE SHADY GAME GONE RESPECTABLE PAUL NEWMAN HUSTLED AUDIENCES INTO THE SMOKE FILLED ROOMS OF POOL HALLS IN THE NINETEEN SIXTY ONE OSCAR NOMINATED FILM THE HUSTLER TWENTY YEARS LATER HIGH STAKES AND SWANK SURROUNDINGS IN THE MOVIE THE COLOR OF MONEY RAISED THE PROFILE OF BILLIARDS EVEN FURTHER PROFESSIONAL POCKET BILLIARDS IS UNDERGOING YET ANOTHER TRANSFORMATION WOMEN RIGHT NOW THERE'S OVER FORTY MILLION PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME AND ABOUT FIFTEEN MILLION OF THOSE ARE WOMEN WOMEN HAVE BEEN PLAYING BILLIARDS FOR MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED YEARS THE TWENTY YEAR OLD WOMEN'S PROFESSIONAL BILLIARDS ASSOCIATION OR WPBA IS THE OLDEST PRO PLAYER GROUP FOR THE SPORT MEMBER AND ACE PLAYER NESLI O'HARE CREDITS THE GROUP WITH CHANGING THE FACE OF PRO POOL IN THE BEGINNING I THINK WE MADE GREAT STRIDES TO TRY TO GET RID OF AND DETER PEOPLE FROM THINKING THAT POCKET BILLIARDS IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO GAMBLING SMOKING AND THOSE THINGS TODAY BILLIARD ROOMS ARE OFTEN ELEGANT TO ENTICE WOMEN AND FAMILIES IT'S MUCH MORE ACCEPTED NOW FOR CHILDREN TO START PLAYING THEIR PARENTS DON'T GET TERRIFIED WHEN THE KIDS SAY THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO DO I WANT TO GO DOWN TO THE POOL ROOM AT THE AMSTERDAM BILLIARD CLUB IN MANHATTAN PLAYERS CHALK THEIR CUE STICKS TO CLASSICAL MUSIC CAPPUCCINO AND A WOODBURNING FIREPLACE CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP IS SEEN AS THE KEY TO MAKING WOMEN'S PRO POCKET BILLIARDS A BIG MONEY GAME WPBA SPONSORS LIKE GORDON'S GIN ARE HELPING THE WOMEN TO EARN NEARLY AS MUCH AS THE MEN THE TOP TOURNAMENT PRIZE CAN NOW REACH TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS LOREE JON JONES RACKED UP PRIZES TOTALING NEARLY ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS LAST YEAR JONES HAS BEEN AT THE POOL TABLE SINCE SHE WAS FOUR YEARS OLD JONES SEES HERSELF AS AN IMPULSIVE PLAYER RATHER THAN ANALYTICAL BUT SHE PLUGS THAT ONLY MAKES THE WOMEN'S GAME MORE INTERESTING OUR INITIAL DRIVE IS TO SHOOT IT SO WE'RE VERY EXCITING PLAYERS ACTUALLY YOU KNOW HOW IN SOFTBALL THEY SAY YOU THROW LIKE A GIRL IS IT POSSIBLE IN POOL TO PLAY LIKE A GIRL MY DAD YOU WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING THAT'S WHY I'M A GREAT PLAYER TODAY BECAUSE I COULDN'T STAND MY FATHER TELLING ME YOU HIT IT LIKE A GIRL GIRL OR BOY POCKET BILLIARDS ARE MORE POPULAR THAN EVER RECENTLY RECOGNIZED AS A FULL METAL SPORT IT'S NOW ELIGIBLE FOR THE WORLD GAMES AND PERHAPS ONE DAY THE OLYMPICS JANINE SHARELL C. N. N. NEW YORK THE WHITE HOUSE IS TURNING ITS ATTENTION TODAY TO THE NATION'S WAR ON DRUGS AT THIS HOUR PRESIDENT CLINTON HEADS TO MIAMI WHERE HE WILL DETAIL KEY GOALS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION'S ANTI DRUG POLICY C. N. N.'S CLAIRE SHIPMAN IS AT THE WHITE HOUSE TO TELL US MORE GOOD MORNING ONCE AGAIN CLAIRE GOOD MORNING AGAIN ANDREA THE PRESIDENT AS YOU MENTIONED IS ON HIS WAY TO MIAMI RIGHT NOW WE'RE TOLD HE'S GOING TO OUTLINE SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S BROADER POLICY GOALS IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DRUG USE ESPECIALLY WAYS TO MOTIVATE YOUNG PEOPLE NOT TO USE DRUGS AND SOME PLANS THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TO TIGHTEN INTERDICTION EFFORTS THE ADMINISTRATION HAS MADE DRUG CONTROL A FRONT BURNER POLICY ISSUE ESPECIALLY SINCE IT HAS BEEN CRITICIZED FOR NOT DOING QUITE ENOUGH EARLY ENOUGH ALSO ON THE PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA THIS WEEK A MEETING WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES HE'S IN THE COUNTRY FOR A FEW DAYS YESTERDAY THE TWO MEN MET THEY TALKED ABOUT INCREASED MISSILE DEFENSE THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO OFFER MORE MISSILE DEFENSE SUPPORT ALSO MORE INTELLIGENCE SUPPORT MORE EARLY WARNING OF ENEMY ROCKET ATTACKS THEY ALSO DISCUSSED OF COURSE THE RECENT ACCORD TO STOP THE FIGHTING ON THE ISRAELI LEBANESE BORDER BOTH MEN THEN SPOKE AT AN AIPAC DINNER THE AMERICAN ISRAEL PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE THE PRESIDENT EXPRESSED U. S. SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL BUT MR. PERES WARNED OF CONTINUED THREATS TO THE PEACE PROCESS OUR COMMITMENT TO ISRAEL'S SECURITY IS UNSHAKABLE IT WILL STAY THAT WAY BECAUSE ISRAEL MUST HAVE THE MEANS TO DEFEND ITSELF BY ITSELF IN A TIME OF SHRINKING RESOURCES WE HAVE MAINTAINED OUR ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE WE HAVE SOUGHT TO ENHANCE ISRAEL'S SECURITY TO LESSEN THE RISKS IT HAS TAKEN AND STILL TAKES EVERY DAY FOR PEACE ISRAEL'S QUALITATIVE MILITARY EDGE IS GREATER THAN EVER BECAUSE WE HAVE KEPT OUR WORD LIBYA IRAQ AND PARTICULARLY IRAN ARE ATTEMPTING TO DESTROY THE PEACE PROCESS THEY USE TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE HAMAS THE ISLAMIC JIHAD THE HEZBOLLAH TO STOP IT THROUGH EXPLOSIVES AND SUICIDE TERRORISTS TO CONVINCE PUBLIC OPINION THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO REACH PEACE YET MR. PRESIDENT PROVIDED YOU MR. PRESIDENT PROVIDED THE INSPIRATION TO THE PEACE PROCESS AND STOOD UP AGAINST THE ENEMIES OF PEACE THE PRESIDENT WILL HOLD A WORKING LUNCH TOMORROW AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH MR. PERES ANDREA ALL RIGHT THANK YOU CLAIRE SHIPMAN REPORTING LIVE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ONCE AGAIN THIS MORNING FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR WILLIAM COLBY IS MISSING THIS MORNING COLBY SERVED AS C. I. A. DIRECTOR FROM NINETEEN SEVENTY THREE TO NINETEEN SEVENTY SIX UNDER PRESIDENTS NIXON AND FORD WITH MORE ON THE STORY WE TURN TO DAVID STATTER WITH C. N. N. AFFILIATE WUSA HE JOINS US FROM LA PLATA MARYLAND DAVE WHAT CAN YOU TELL US RIGHT NOW WE CAN TELL YOU THAT THE SEARCH IS ABOUT TO BEGIN THIS MORNING IN COBB ISLAND NEAR COBB ISLAND MARYLAND IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF CHARLES COUNTY JUST OFF THE POTOMAC RIVER SOUTH OF WASHINGTON D. C. THE SEARCH WAS UNDERWAY LAST NIGHT IN THE COBB ISLAND AREA FOR THE FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR ACCORDING TO THE CHARLES COUNTY SHERIFF THE FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR APPARENTLY EITHER SLIPPED OFF HIS DOCK OR OUT OF HIS CANOE AT HIS SUMMER HOME IN THE COBB ISLAND AREA THE SEARCH UNDERWAY LAST NIGHT WITH HELICOPTERS AND BOATS DID NOT TURN UP THE FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR THEY BELIEVE THIS MORNING THEY'RE GOING TO USE DIVERS NEAR HIS DOCK JUST OFF HIS HOME AND OFF THE POTOMAC RIVER AND THE WICOMICO RIVER AND THEY BELIEVE THE DIVERS POSSIBLY WILL FIND THE BODY THIS MORNING IT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT MYSTERY NOVELS ARE MADE OF A FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR MISSING A HALF EATEN MEAL INSIDE THE HOUSE A COMPUTER THAT'S STILL ON BUT THEY SAY NO FOUL PLAY INVOLVED WE TALKED TO THE SHERIFF EARLIER TODAY EARLIER THIS MORNING HE SAID THEY GOT MORE INFORMATION AFTER THEY TALKED TO THE FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR'S WIFE HIS WIFE DID SPEAK TO HIM EARLIER IN THE DAY AND HE SAID HE WAS GOING CANOEING HE EVEN INDICATED HE WASN'T FEELING WELL BUT HE WAS STILL GOING CANOEING SHE GAVE US A PATH OF THE WAY HE NORMALLY GOES IN HIS CANOE AND APPARENTLY THAT'S THE WAY IT WENT WE ARE TOLD BY THE COAST GUARD THAT THE POSSIBILITY IS HE ACTUALLY MAY HAVE SLIPPED OFF THE DOCK AND THAT'S THE AREA THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THIS MORNING YEAH WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AROUND THE DOCK AREA BE LOOKING AROUND THE GENERAL AREA THAT HE NORMALLY CANOES ACCORDING TO HIS WIFE WE'LL CHECK ALL THAT OUT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE COAST GUARD ARE CURRENTLY DOWN THERE GETTING READY TO FORM BACK UP AND BEGIN THE SEARCH AGAIN THIS MORNING AND ANDREA WE TALKED TO SOME NEIGHBORS IN THE AREA AND THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO FIRST REPORTED WILLIAM COLBY MISSING THEY SAY THEY NOTICED SOMETHING NOT RIGHT AT THE HOUSE THEY ARE VERY CLOSE IN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD THEY CHECKED THE HOUSE OUT FOUND THE HALF EATEN MEAL FOUND THE COMPUTER TURNED ON FOUND HIS CAR STILL THERE AND THEY KNEW SOMETHING WASN'T RIGHT AND THAT'S WHEN THEY NOTIFIED AUTHORITIES BACK TO YOU DAVE ARE AUTHORITIES SAYING HOW DIFFICULT THE SEARCH MAY BE WELL IT'S AN AREA RIGHT BY THE DOCK AND THEY'RE HOPING TO HAVE GOOD LUCK THIS MORNING IN TRY IN THEIR ATTEMPT TO RECOVER THE BODY IF IT'S NOT THERE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WIDEN THEIR SEARCH AND AGAIN USE BOATS BUT THEY'RE CONCENTRATING THEIR EFFORTS ON THIS ONE AREA AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL FIND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AND HOW DEEP ARE THE WATERS THERE WHAT KIND OF WATERS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT'S A GOOD QUESTION I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DEPTH OF THE WATER IN THAT AREA BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT IT WAS PRETTY DARK WHEN WE WERE THERE THIS MORNING SO WE REALLY COULDN'T SEE THE WATER OR GET OUT CLOSE TO THE WATER THIS MORNING BUT WE WILL BE DOWN THERE IN A LITTLE WHILE AND WE'LL REPORT BACK TO YOU ALL RIGHT DAVE STATTER AT C. N. N. AFFILIATE WUSA JOINING US THIS MORNING WITH A REPORT ON FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR WILLIAM COLBY MISSING THANK YOU AGAIN DAVE CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT CLINTON ARE SQUABBLING OVER A MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM FOR THE UNITED STATES C. N. N. MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT JAMIE MCINTYRE REPORTS CONGRESSIONAL EFFORTS TO SPEED UP DEPLOYMENT MAY RUN INTO A PRESIDENTIAL VETO BOTH THE PENTAGON AND CONGRESS AGREE THE U. S. NEEDS A DEFENSE AGAINST INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES THE QUESTION IS HOW SOON OUR NATION IS NOT NOW THREATENED BY MISSILES OF MASS DESTRUCTION NO ROGUE NATION TODAY HAS I. C. B. M.S ONLY THE ESTABLISHED NUCLEAR POWERS HAVE I. C. B. M.S THE PENTAGON ARGUES RUSSIA AND CHINA ARE NO THREAT AND NORTH KOREA IRAQ AND LIBYA DON'T HAVE LONG RANGE MISSILES WE NEED TO HAVE A CAPABILITY IN CASE ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES GETS ONE MISSILE TODAY WE HAVE NOTHING CURT WELDON BACKS A REPUBLICAN BILL TO FORCE THE PENTAGON TO DEPLOY A SYSTEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE WE COULD GIVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE A NATIONAL MISSILE DEFENSE CAPABILITY NOW WITHIN A THREE YEAR TIME PERIOD AT A COST OF APPROXIMATELY TWO BILLION DOLLARS BUT THE PENTAGON WANTS TO WAIT THREE YEARS SAYING MONEY SAVED NOW AND EXTRA RESEARCH TIME WILL MEAN A BETTER SYSTEM LATER THE CHOICE IS BETWEEN BUILDING AN ADVANCED SYSTEM TO DEFEAT AN ACTUAL THREAT VERSUS A LESS CAPABLE SYSTEM TO DEFEAT A HYPOTHETICAL THREAT MY POSITION IS THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING BOTH WE SHOULD BE GIVING THE PEOPLE PROTECTION THEY DO NOT HAVE TODAY AND WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TO A MORE ROBUST SYSTEM DOWN THE ROAD THE PENTAGON SAYS DEPLOYMENT NOW WOULD UNDERMINE TREATIES WITH RUSSIA SUCH AS START WHICH ELIMINATES THOUSANDS OF NUCLEAR WARHEADS AND THE A. B. M. TREATY WHICH BANS DEFENSES AGAINST LARGE SCALE MISSILE ATTACK ONLY IF AND WHEN WE DECIDE TO DEPLOY A NATIONAL MISSILE DEFENSE SHOULD WE NEED TO DECIDE WHETHER WE NEED AMENDMENTS TO THE A. B. M. TREATY REPUBLICANS ARGUE SHIP BASED SYSTEMS COULD PROVIDE LIMITED PROTECTION WITHOUT VIOLATING THE A. B. M. TREATY THE REPUBLICAN PLAN HAS SO FAR PASSED A SINGLE SENATE COMMITTEE SHOULD IT CLEAR THE FULL CONGRESS PENTAGON SOURCES SAY IT'S HEADING STRAIGHT FOR A PRESIDENTIAL VETO JAMIE MCINTYRE C. N. N. THE PENTAGON WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU ALL MORNING ABOUT THE WILDFIRES RAVAGING WIDE AREAS OF NEW MEXICO AND ARIZONA BO COOPER OF C. N. N. AFFILIATE KOAT IN ALBUQUERQUE NEW MEXICO IS COVERING ONE OF THE WORST FIRES BURNING NEAR LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY HE JOINS US NOW WITH THE LATEST GOOD MORNING BO GOOD MORNING IT IS VERY CALM VERY QUIET HERE RIGHT NOW BUT THAT IS VERY DECEIVING BECAUSE LESS THAN A MILE FROM HERE FIRE IS RIPPING THROUGH THE TOPS OF TREE CANOPIES AND ALONG THE BRUSH YOU CAN SEE BEHIND ME THIS IS THE SUPPLY TENT I'M ACTUALLY AT THE FIRE BASE CAMP THIS IS WHERE THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE GETTING THEIR SUPPLIES THINGS THAT THEY'LL NEED FOR TODAY FIREFIGHTERS HAVE REALLY BEEN COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND A LOT OF THEM ACTUALLY PREFER TO WORK AT NIGHT WHEN IT IS MUCH COOLER WITHOUT THE RIGHT TOOLS FIXING THIS FIRE IS IMPOSSIBLE MAKING SURE THERE IS ENOUGH EQUIPMENT TO GO AROUND IS TOM KRUGER'S JOB WHATEVER WE ORDER WE'RE ROBBING FROM SOMEONE ELSE THAT NEEDS IT BUT SINCE THIS IS THE BIGGEST GAME GOING RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ALL THE RESOURCES JUST YOU KNOW SO IT'S SENSIBLE BUT WE HAVE WHAT WE NEED LIKE THESE PICKS THE FIREFIGHTERS USE ON THE LINE THERE ARE STACKS OF THESE LAYING AROUND THE REASON WE HAVE SO MANY IS BECAUSE THEY GET DULL FAST YOU KNOW WE'VE GOT ROCKS AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT JUST CHIP UP AND DULL THE BITS AND SO WE HAVE PROTECTANT COLORS THEY TAKE THEM OUT THEY USE THEM FOR ONE OR TWO SHIFTS AND THEN THEY GET DULL AND WE HAVE TO SEND THEM OUT TO GET THEM SHARPENED SAFETY GEAR IS ALSO ON STANDBY O. K. WE HAVE A FIRE SHELTER IT IS RIGHT HERE ACTUALLY HERE IS ONE THAT WAS USED FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES BUT THIS HAS SAVED A NUMBER OF LIVES WHEN WE HAD A COUPLE OF DEPLOYMENTS ON THIS FIRE THE EQUIPMENT COMES IN FROM ALL OVER THERE IS FIRE FOAM A COATING THEY USE ON TREES AND HOUSES IF THE FLAMES MAKE A THREAT CASES OF DRINKS ARE HERE TOO THERE ARE EVEN TRAYS TO SERVE HOT FOOD TO REMOTE FIRE CAMPS THERE ARE FIRE PANTS AND GOGGLES I ASKED KRUGER WHAT ELSE HE NEEDED A LITTLE WARMER TEMPERATURE AT NIGHT A LITTLE COOLER TEMPERATURE DURING THE DAY AND A LITTLE BIT MORE RAIN WHAT THEY DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED HERE IS WIND AND THE LATEST METEOROLOGICAL REPORT IS THAT THE WINDS WILL DIE DOWN TODAY THAT IS GOOD NEWS BECAUSE LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LAB IS ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN MILES FROM HERE IT IS A PRETTY SPREAD OUT AREA AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT SITES ALL AROUND WHERE THE FIRE COULD AFFECT THEM RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THE LAB AND THE TOWN OF LOS ALAMOS ARE GOING TO BE SAFE OF COURSE FIREFIGHTERS ARE GOING TO BE VERY VERY CAREFUL MAKING SURE THAT NONE OF THIS SPREADS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE LOW WINDS TODAY REPORTING LIVE FROM BANDELIER NATIONAL MONUMENT BACK TO YOU BO ANY ESTIMATE AS TO WHEN THE FIRE MAY BE CONTAINED OR CONTROLLED THAT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK OUT HERE AMONG THE FIREFIGHTERS THEY SAY THEY PLAN TO BE HERE FOR A WEEK AND A HALF SOME OF THE OFFICIALS SAY THEY COULD BE HERE AS MUCH AS A WEEK I THINK IT IS VERY SAFE TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO BE RIGHT HERE THIS TIME NEXT WEEK ALL RIGHT BO COOPER REPORTING TO US FROM NEAR THE LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY THERE HE IS WITH C. N. N. AFFILIATE KOAT AND WE WILL CONTINUE WITH MORE NEWS ON EARLY EDITION JUST AHEAD WE ASK YOU TO STAY WITH US AS WE TOLD YOU EARLIER THE DEATH TOLL IN THAT SHOOTING SPREE IN PORT ARTHUR AUSTRALIA NOW STANDS AT THIRTY FOUR THE SUSPECT IS IN CUSTODY AND POLICE ARE NOW TRYING TO SORT OUT THE DETAILS JOHN RAEDLER JOINS US LIVE NOW FROM HOBART AUSTRALIA HOBART TASMANIA RATHER WITH THE LATEST JOHN WELL BILL THE MASS KILLINGS ARE OVER THE SIEGE IS OVER THE INITIAL DRAMA IS OVER THIS IS HOW IT FINISHED NEARLY TWENTY FOUR HOURS OF MAYHEM ENDED HERE IN THESE SMOLDERING REMAINS OF A GUEST HOUSE NEAR PORT ARTHUR IT WAS HERE THAT THE ALLEGED GUNMAN'S THREE HOSTAGES ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE MET THE SAME FATE AS MORE THAN THIRTY OTHER PEOPLE YESTERDAY DEATH BY GUNFIRE AFTER HE CARRIED OUT THE LAST OF HIS KILLING THE SUSPECT APPARENTLY SET FIRE TO THE TWO STORY HOUSE EVENTUALLY RUNNING FROM IT WITH HIS CLOTHES ABLAZE WAITING POLICE ARRESTED HIM HE WAS RUSHED TO HOSPITAL IN HOBART AND ADMITTED FOR TREATMENT FOR MINOR BURNS THE MAN IS BEING KEPT ISOLATED FROM OTHER PATIENTS AND IS UNDER HEAVY POLICE GUARD AS WE CONDUCTING THE INQUIRIES WE HOPE TO EXPLORE IT AS SOON AS WE CAN BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHEN AND IF ANY CHARGES WILL BE LAID POLICE HAS NOT YET RELEASED THE SUSPECT'S IDENTITY NOR ANY REASON FOR HIS HORRIFIC ACTION LATER MONDAY POLICE ALLOWED NEWS MEDIA INTO THE HISTORIC SITE OF PORT ARTHUR REVERED RELIC OF AUSTRALIA'S CONVICT PAST TWENTY FOUR HOURS EARLIER ITS TRANQUILITY SHATTERED BY HUNDREDS OF STACCATO GUN BLASTS THE FIRST AND THE WORST OF THE CARNAGE HAPPENED HERE TWENTY PEOPLE KILLED IN THIS CAFE JUST BEHIND ME ANOTHER FOUR PEOPLE KILLED OUTSIDE ELSEWHERE THE GUNMAN'S CAR WITH A SURFBOARD ON TOP GREEN BLANKETS COVERING THE BLOOD OF VICTIMS A POLICEMAN RECOUNTS THE ESPECIALLY TRAGIC DEMISE OF A WOMAN AND HER TWO LITTLE DAUGHTERS IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MOTHER WAS CARRYING THE THREE YEAR OLD BABY WHEN THEY WERE BOTH SHOT AND THE SIX YEAR OLD RAN AWAY TRYING TO ESCAPE AND WAS SHOT IN THE PROCESS MORE SIGNS OF THE RAMPAGE SHOT UP CARS THEIR DRIVERS AND PASSENGERS EITHER DEAD OR WOUNDED AND MORE BLANKETS COVERING MORE BLOOD ONLY NOW IS THE SHOCK SINKING IN WE WATCHED DUNBLANE AND LOCKERBIE AND PLACES AND THE WE STAND BY BUT WHEN WE'RE HERE IT'S THIS IS OUR THIS IS OUR DUNBLANE NOW THAT THE DRAMA IS OVER THE TRAUMA HAS BEGUN AS TASMANIANS TRY TO COME TO TERMS WITH WHAT FEW OF THEM COULD EVER HAVE IMAGINED HAPPENING IN THEIR GREEN AND SERENE ISLAND UNDERNEATH DOWN UNDER AND HERE ON WHAT IS MONDAY NIGHT IN HOBART IN THE HOSPITAL BEHIND ME THE ROYAL HOBART HOSPITAL THE SUSPECT IS BEING TREATED THERE FOR BURNS THAT HE SUFFERED DURING THE FIERY CLIMAX TO THIS SAGA THIS MORNING HE IS TO BE INTERVIEWED BY POLICE HE IS EXPECTED IN THE NEXT TWENTY FOUR THIRTY SIX OR FORTY EIGHT HOURS TO BE CHARGED WITH THE MOST COUNTS OF MURDER IN AUSTRALIAN LEGAL HISTORY JOHN QUICKLY HERE SOME OF THE SURVIVORS I KNOW ARE ALSO INSIDE OF THAT HOSPITAL CAN YOU TELL US WHAT CONDITION ARE THEY IN AT THIS TIME WE BELIEVE THERE ARE ABOUT TWELVE SURVIVORS STILL IN THE HOSPITAL FOUR OF THOSE STILL SAID TO BE IN SERIOUS CONDITION ALL RIGHT JOHN RAEDLER LIVE FROM HOBART AUSTRALIA THANKS FOR THAT UPDATE FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN WILL BEGIN HIS DEPOSITION TODAY IN THE UPCOMING CIVIL SUIT AGAINST O. J. SIMPSON FUHRMAN NOW LIVES IN IDAHO AND HE WILL BE QUESTIONED IN THAT STATE C. N. N.'S CHARLES FELDMAN SAYS THOUGH UNLIKE THE CRIMINAL TRIAL FUHRMAN'S PROFILE IN THIS CASE COULD BE MUCH LOWER IN MOST CRIMINAL TRIALS IT IS THE DEFENDANT WHO COMMANDS CENTER STAGE BUT THE O. J. SIMPSON TRIAL WAS NOT LIKE MOST OTHER CASES SHARING THE SPOTLIGHT WITH SIMPSON WAS FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN OR AS HE CAME TO BE KNOWN THE MAN WHO FOUND THE GLOVE I LOOKED DOWN AND I SAW A DARK OBJECT I WAS PROBABLY STILL FIFTEEN TWENTY FEET AWAY AND I KEPT WALKING CLOSER AND THEN I SAW WHEN I WAS A FEW FEET AWAY THAT IT WAS A GLOVE AS HE DID IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING FUHRMAN REPEATED THAT TESTIMONY DURING THE TRIAL ITSELF BUT BY THEN SIMPSON'S LAWYERS HAD EFFECTIVELY TURNED THE TABLES FUHRMAN WAS CAST AS A RACIST ROGUE COP WHO WAS OUT TO GET SIMPSON AND MAY HAVE SIMPSON'S LAWYERS STRONGLY SUGGESTED EVEN PLANTED KEY EVIDENCE TO TRY AND PROVE THAT FUHRMAN IS A RACIST SIMPSON'S LAWYERS SET A TRAP BY ASKING FUHRMAN WHETHER HE USED WHAT WAS OFTEN REFERRED TO GINGERLY AS THE 'N WORD ALTHOUGH F. LEE BAILEY DID NOT MINCE WORDS IN HIS CROSS EXAMINATION AND YOU SAY ON YOUR OATH THAT YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED ANY BLACK PERSON AS A NIGGER OR SPOKEN ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AS NIGGERS IN THE PAST TEN YEARS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING SIR AND THEN CAME THE BOMBSHELL IT WAS REVEALED THAT FUHRMAN HAD INDEED USED THE SO CALLED 'N WORD SEVERAL TIMES DURING TAPED CONVERSATIONS WITH A WOULD BE SCREENWRITER WHO WAS LOOKING FOR COLOR FOR A SCRIPT SHE WAS WORKING ON ABOUT THE POLICE THAT COUPLED WITH NEWS THAT FUHRMAN WAS NOW UNDER INVESTIGATION HIMSELF FOR ALLEGED ACTS OF POLICE MISCONDUCT HE TALKED ABOUT ON THOSE TAPES RESULTED IN FUHRMAN TAKING THE FIFTH AMENDMENT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DID YOU PLANT OR MANUFACTURE ANY EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE I ASSERT MY FIFTH AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE THE HIGH PROFILE ROLE FUHRMAN PLAYED IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL EXPERTS SAY IS NOT LIKELY TO BE REPEATED IN THE FORTHCOMING CIVIL SUIT AGAINST SIMPSON FILED BY FAMILIES OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND RON GOLDMAN MAINLY THEY SAY THAT IS BECAUSE IN THE CIVIL TRIAL SIMPSON HIMSELF WILL HAVE TO TAKE THE STAND SOMETHING HE DID NOT DO DURING THE CRIMINAL PROCEEDING AND SINCE THE NOW RETIRED DETECTIVE IS STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION IN CALIFORNIA ANY TESTIMONY HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO OFFER IS BOUND TO BE SEVERELY LIMITED CHARLES FELDMAN C. N. N. LOS ANGELES WHEN AN OIL TANKER HITS THE ROCKS THE PUBLIC AND THE T. V. CAMERAS PAY CLOSE ATTENTION BUT SOME ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THE BIGGEST DAMAGE COMES FROM THE OIL WE SPILL EVERY DAY ONE DROP AT A TIME C. N. N. ENVIRONMENTAL UNIT REPORTER BRUCE BURKHARDT HAS MORE SEVEN YEARS AGO ITS SOILED ALASKAN BEACHES AND SCENES OF STRICKEN WILDLIFE BECAME A SYMBOL OF ENVIRONMENTAL OUTRAGE BUT OIL INDUSTRY CRITICS SAY THAT WHILE BIG TANKER ACCIDENTS GET THE PUBLIC'S ATTENTION THEIR TOTAL IMPACT IS A DROP IN THE BARREL COMPARED TO THE OIL THAT'S SPILLED DURING NORMAL BUSINESS EVERY DAY SO WHAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT IS WHAT HAPPENS AT AN OIL REFINERY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHIP OIL AROUND IN A PIPELINE THOSE LEAK THOSE BREAK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OIL IS UNLOADED FROM A BIG TANKER INTO A SMALLER BARGE PIPELINE SPILLS REPORTED TO THE U. S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AVERAGE TWELVE MILLION GALLONS OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS A YEAR MORE EACH YEAR THAN THE ELEVEN MILLION GALLONS SPILLED BY THE EXXON VALDEZ THE E. P. A. SAYS OVER A QUARTER OF THE NATION'S ONE MILLION UNDERGROUND GASOLINE AND OIL TANKS LEAK NO ONE KNOWS HOW MUCH FUEL IS LOST AND SMALLER OIL BARGES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR TWO OF THE THREE WORST U. S. SPILLS SINCE THE VALDEZ INCLUDING THE GROUNDING OF THE NORTH CAPE BARGE OFF RHODE ISLAND IN JANUARY THE GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE SAYS THERE'S AN AVERAGE OF SIXTEEN THOUSAND SMALL OIL SPILLS IN THE WATERWAYS EACH YEAR HALF OF THEM DURING LOADING OR UNLOADING OPERATIONS THE AVERAGE IN RECENT YEARS SAYS G. A. O. IS FORTY SIX MILLION GALLONS SPILLED PER YEAR ABOUT FOUR TIMES THE VALDEZ SPILL LEGISLATION TO TIGHTEN SAFETY REGULATIONS ON FUEL BARGES AND THE BOATS THAT TOW THEM IS PENDING IN CONGRESS BUT IF A MEGA SPILL LIKE THE EXXON VALDEZ INSPIRES HEADLINES IT ALSO INSPIRES ACTION IN THIS CASE THE OIL POLLUTION ACT OF NINETEEN NINETY IN THE SIX YEARS SINCE THAT LAW TIGHTENED SAFETY AND INSURANCE STANDARDS FOR TANKERS THERE HAVE BEEN NO VALDEZ SIZE DISASTERS THE OIL INDUSTRY SAYS ITS TRACK RECORD IS CONSISTENTLY IMPROVING THE AMOUNT LOST OR SPILLED IS ONLY A SMALL FRACTION OF THE SIX BILLION GALLONS OF OIL THE U. S. CONSUMES EACH YEAR BLACKWELDER SEES IT AS A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR WASTE BOTH IN LOST FUEL AND MOUNTING CLEANUP EXPENSES WE ARE STILL SPILLING AND WASTING OIL WE'RE TREATING IT CASUALLY WE'RE NOT TREATING IT AS IF IT'S A PRECIOUS COMMODITY WE'RE GIVING IT AWAY WITH SO MUCH OIL MOVING DAILY IN TANKERS BARGES AND PIPELINES HE SAYS THE SPILLS GREAT AND SMALL ARE BOUND TO CONTINUE BRUCE BURKHARDT C. N. N. REPORTING A TWENTY THREE YEAR BAN ON ALASKAN PETROLEUM EXPORTS HAS BEEN LIFTED BY PRESIDENT CLINTON THE RESTRICTION WAS IMPOSED BY CONGRESS WHEN IT FIRST AUTHORIZED THE TRANS ALASKA PIPELINE MR. CLINTON IS PUTTING A NUMBER OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION REQUIREMENTS ON THE TANKER THAT WILL CARRY THE OIL BRITISH PETROLEUM SAYS ITS FIRST EXPORT CUSTOMER WILL BE CHINESE PETROLEUM OF TAIWAN AN ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL SAYS REFINERIES ON THE WEST COAST OF THE UNITED STATES WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE FULL ACCESS TO ALASKAN OIL AND THIS NOTE THE LUMBERG SURVEY ESTIMATES THAT GAS PRICES ARE UP ON AVERAGE ABOUT FIVE CENTS A GALLON NATIONWIDE ALTHOUGH SOME REPORTS HAVE SHOWN THAT IN CALIFORNIA PRICES AT THE PUMPS GO UP AS HIGH AS TWO DOLLARS PLUS AND THE OUTCRY AGAINST HIGH GAS PRICES IN CALIFORNIA HAS REACHED WASHINGTON WITH HOUSE SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH CALLING FOR OIL COMPANIES TO GIVE AN ACCOUNTING OTHER REPUBLICANS ALSO WANT TO GIVE DRIVERS A BREAK C. N. N.'S SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT CHARLES BIERBAUER JOINS US LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL WITH THE LATEST GOOD MORNING CHARLES GOOD MORNING ANDREA NOW THIS SEEMS TO BE FUELING A NEW TAX DEBATE IN WASHINGTON WELL TO PARAPHRASE AN OLD SAYING I GUESS TWO THINGS INEVITABLE IN WASHINGTON ARE GAS AND TAXES AND IN THIS CASE IT IS GAS TAXES THAT ARE GETTING THE ATTENTION OF LEGISLATORS HERE IN TOWN YOU KNOW AS YOU INDICATED THE AVERAGE PRICE OF GASOLINE HAS INCREASED QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY UP A NICKEL FROM LAST WEEK UP FOURTEEN CENTS FROM LAST YEAR AT THIS TIME SO THAT ACCORDING TO ONE STUDY THE AVERAGE COST OF GASOLINE ACROSS THE COUNTRY ALL GRADES ALL PUMPS IS NOW ONE DOLLAR AND THIRTY SIX CENTS A GALLON AND EVEN MUCH HIGHER IN A LOT OF PLACES INCLUDING HERE IN WASHINGTON A VARIETY OF REASONS SOME OF THEM RELATING TO REGULATIONS SOME OF THEM RELATING TO ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS SOME OF THEM TO THE SUPPLY AND THE HARSHNESS OF WINTER BUT ALL FUEL FOR THE POLITICAL ENGINES OF COURSE IN NINETEEN NINETY THREE PRESIDENT CLINTON HIS ADMINISTRATION RAISED THE GAS TAXES FEDERAL GAS TAXES FOUR POINT THREE PERCENT AND NOW WE'RE HEARING A REPUBLICAN CALL FOR A ROLL BACK ON THAT THE DEBATE AS FRAMED BY SPEAKER GINGRICH AND WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF LEON PANETTA SENATOR DOLE ANNOUNCED ON FRIDAY THAT WE WILL MOVE TO REPEAL THE GAS TAX INCREASE THAT PRESIDENT CLINTON GOT IN NINETEEN NINETY THREE AND I THINK CERTAINLY ANYBODY IN CALIFORNIA KNOWS WITH WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING WITH THE PRICE OF GASOLINE WHEN YOU LEARN THAT FORTY SEVEN AND ONE HALF CENTS A GALLON OF GASOLINE COST IS STATE AND LOCAL AND FEDERAL TAXES IT'S TOO MUCH AND WE NEED TO GET SOME OF THE BURDEN OF GOVERNMENT OFF IF IN FACT SENATOR DOLE IS SERIOUS ABOUT THIS WE HAVE OFFERED TO SIT DOWN WITH SENATOR DOLE AND TRY TO NEGOTIATE A BALANCED BUDGET APPROACH THAT COULD INCLUDE PERHAPS CONSIDERATION OF THE TAX CODE THE GAS TAX REPEAL BUT LET'S UNDERSTAND THAT A GAS TAX REPEAL WOULD COST ALMOST THIRTY BILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT SEVEN YEARS AND I HAVE NOT HEARD SENATOR DOLE SAY HOW HE WOULD PAY FOR THAT AND IN THIS ERA OF SEEKING BALANCED BUDGETS AS MR. PANETTA INDICATES ANYTIME YOU CUT BACK ON ONE SIDE YOU'VE GOT TO CUT BACK SOMETHING ELSE YOU REDUCE YOUR REVENUES YOU'VE GOT TO REDUCE EXPENDITURES BROADER TAX CUTS WILL BE PART OF THE DEBATE AS CONGRESS LAUNCHES INTO THE NINETEEN NINETY SEVEN BUDGET WE'LL BE HEARING MORE ABOUT THAT THIS WEEK THE REPUBLICANS OF COURSE STILL HAVE THEIR PLEDGES TO CUT TAXES THEY WANT TO CUT CAPITAL GAINS TAX THEY WANT TO PROVIDE SOME KIND OF A MIDDLE CLASS TAX CREDIT BASED LARGELY ON A PER CHILD CREDIT PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS GOT THAT IN HIS BUDGET PROPOSAL AS WELL SO WE SHOULD BE HEARING A LOT ABOUT TAXES AND NOT JUST GAS TAXES AND THIS WEEK GOES ON AND AS THE BUDGET DEBATE CONTINUES HERE ANOTHER ISSUE STILL VERY MUCH ACTIVE HERE ON CAPITOL HILL THIS WEEK WILL BE THE HEALTH CARE LEGISLATION PARTICULARLY AS IT FOCUSES ON INSURANCE WHEN WE COME BACK IN A LITTLE BIT WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING WITH A LOBBYIST VERY MUCH OPPOSED TO SOME PROVISIONS FOR PROVIDING INSURANCE FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE AND WE'LL BE BACK A LITTLE LATER IN THE HOUR ANDREA ALL RIGHT THANK YOU ALWAYS SOMETHING TO TINGLE ABOUT HUH CHARLES CHARLES BIERBAUER REPORTING TO US LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL THANKS AGAIN AN OUT OF CONTROL FOREST FIRE FUELED BY EXTREMELY DRY AND WINDY CONDITIONS HAS REACHED THE EDGE OF THE LOS ALAMOS NUCLEAR WEAPONS LABORATORY JOINING US LIVE FROM NEAR LOS ALAMOS NEW MEXICO IS REPORTER BO COOPER FROM C. N. N.'S ALBUQUERQUE AFFILIATE KOAT T. V. AND BO WE SPOKE ABOUT AN HOUR AGO HAVE CONDITIONS CHANGED SINCE THEN WELL IT'S GOTTEN JUST A COUPLE OF DEGREES WARMER IT GOT DOWN TO SIXTEEN DEGREES HERE OVERNIGHT AND THAT OF COURSE CAUSED SOME PROBLEMS FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS ON THE NIGHT CREW I'M HERE LIVE AT THE BASE CAMP JUST SOUTH OF BANDELIER NATIONAL MONUMENT SO FAR THE LATEST BRIEFING SHOWS ELEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ACRES HAVE BEEN CHARRED BY THIS FIRE THE WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO DIE DOWN AND THAT'S GOOD A LOT OF THESE FIREFIGHTERS HERE ARE COMING BACK FROM THEIR NIGHT SHIFT AND THEY SAY THEY PREFER TO FIGHT THIS FIRE AT NIGHT THAT'S BECAUSE THE HUMIDITY IS A LITTLE BIT LOWER ALSO THE TEMPERATURE IS LOWER AND THEIR FATIGUE FACTOR IS LOWER AS WELL THE FIRE TENDS TO BURN AND BEHAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY WHEN IT IS COLDER IT TENDS TO HUG THE GROUND AND THE SMOKE ISN'T REALLY THAT BAD WE JUST GOT A WIND REPORT THEY'RE EXPECTING HIGH PRESSURE TO KIND OF BREAK DOWN OVER THE AREA THAT'S GOOD NEWS BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE WIND WHAT THAT ALLOWS IS A LONGER TIME FOR THE FIRE TO BE UNDER THE CANOPY A LONGER RESIDENCE TIME IT PRE HEATS THE CANOPY AND WE SEE THIS REALLY INTENSE TORCHING VERY VERY QUICKLY ALMOST WITHOUT NOTICE IF YOU'RE ON AN ACTIVE PART OF THE FIRE THIS AFTERNOON IN THE EARLY AFTERNOON BE HEADS UP FOR THAT STUFF NOW THE WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO BLOW THE FLAMES AWAY FROM LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LAB IT IS OF COURSE GOOD NEWS YOU MENTIONED IT'S VERY DRY IT'S THE DRIEST IT'S BEEN HERE IN TWENTY YEARS AND WE NOW KNOW THE ORIGIN OF THIS FIRE WAS AN ABANDONED CAMP FIRE TWO MEN HAVE TURNED THEMSELVES IN ONE WAS FROM TAOS NEW MEXICO THE OTHER FROM GERMANY THEY WERE HERE HIKING LAST WEEK WHEN THEY APPARENTLY WALKED OFF AND LEFT A FIRE BURNING THAT'S CERTAINLY BAD NEWS WE TYPICALLY HAVE FIRES HERE IN NEW MEXICO LIKE THIS BUT NEVER THIS EARLY IT IS VERY VERY DRY AND THIS MIGHT BE A PRECURSOR FOR A VERY BAD FIRE SEASON REPORTING LIVE FROM BANDELIER NATIONAL MONUMENT NOW BACK TO YOU BO QUICKLY YOU MENTIONED SIXTEEN DEGREES JUST A SHORT TIME AGO IS THAT TYPICAL THIS TIME OF YEAR NO IT'S NOT NOT FOR THIS TIME THIS LATE IN APRIL WE HAD A COLD FRONT THAT MOVED THROUGH AND THAT CERTAINLY COOLED THINGS OFF THREE NIGHTS AGO IT WAS FIFTY DEGREES OUT HERE SO THE TEMPERATURE DROP HAS CERTAINLY BEEN SOMETHING THESE FIREFIGHTERS HAVE REALLY HAD TO CONTEND WITH O. K. BO COOPER FROM C. N. N. AFFILIATE KOAT OUT OF ALBUQUERQUE NEW MEXICO THANKS BO A CAREER SPY IS MISSING A SEARCH IS UNDERWAY FOR FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR WILLIAM COLBY COAST GUARD CREWS ARE LOOKING IN THE WICOMICO RIVER IN MARYLAND AFTER NEIGHBORS FOUND HIS CAPSIZED CANOE C. N. N.'S CARL ROCHELLE JOINS US NOW LIVE FROM COBB ISLAND MARYLAND WHAT'S THE LATEST CARL NATALIE WE JUST HEARD FROM THE OFFICIALS WHO ARE CONDUCTING THIS OPERATION THE FIRE CHIEF THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND THE SHERIFF OF THIS COUNTY THEY SAY THEY HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL SO FAR IN THEIR EFFORTS AND THEY ARE NOW BEGINNING TO GET READY TO AUGMENT THE DIVERS BY BEGINNING DRAGGING OPERATIONS AND WHEN THEY DO THAT WHAT THEY DO IS TAKE STRETCH A LINE BETWEEN TWO BOATS AND ON THE LINE ARE HOOKS AND THEY DRAG THESE HOOKS ALONG THE BOTTOM IT'S WEIGHTED SO THEY GO ALONG THE BOTTOM AND THE IDEA IS TO HOOK ANYTHING IN THE PATH THAT IS THE NEXT LEVEL OF EFFORT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO MOVE INTO TO TRY TO DETERMINE THE FATE OF WILLIAM COLBY THE GREEN COLORED CANOE USED BY WILLIAM COLBY SITS ON THE GRASS IN FRONT OF HIS WATERFRONT HOME SPARSE EVIDENCE TO THE FATE OF THE FORMER C. I. A. DIRECTOR IT WAS FOUND SUNDAY NIGHT ABOUT FOUR HUNDRED YARDS DOWNSTREAM PARTIALLY FILLED WITH WATER THERE WERE NO PADDLES AND NO LIFE PRESERVERS DIVERS ARE SEARCHING THE WATERS NEAR HERE FOR HIS BODY RIGHT NOW WE ARE VIEWING IT AS AN ACCIDENT BUT I WILL NOT RULE OUT FOUL PLAY YOU NEVER RULE THAT OUT TILL WE FINALLY LOCATE THE INDIVIDUAL AND GET A AUTOPSY DONE BUT RIGHT NOW IT IS BEING CONSIDERED AS AN ACCIDENT A BOATING ACCIDENT NEIGHBORS BECAME CONCERNED WHEN THEY NOTICED COLBY WHO WAS DIRECTOR OF THE C. I. A. FROM NINETEEN SEVENTY THREE TO SEVENTY SIX HAD NOT LEFT FOR WASHINGTON SUNDAY EVENING AS HE USUALLY DID THEY WENT TO HIS HOME FOUND THE RADIO AND COMPUTER STILL ON BUT NO COLBY THEY LOOKED AROUND HE WASN'T AROUND THEY WALKED OUT TO A PIER WHERE THE CANOE IS KEPT THAT MR. COLBY ADAMANT IN CANOEING THEY SAW THE CANOE THERE'S ALSO A LADDER WHICH HE USES TO PUT DOWN OVER THE SIDE OF THE PIER TO GET INTO THE CANOE THE LADDER WAS DOWN THE CANOE WAS GONE DIVERS ARE CONCENTRATING THEIR SEARCH IN THE WATERS NEAR THE COLBY HOME BUT THEY SAY CONDITIONS ARE TOUGH IT'S A BLACK WATER SEARCH THERE'S NO VISIBILITY IN ANY OF THE WATERS IN CHARLES COUNTY SO IT'S ALL DONE BY FEEL COLBY HAD TALKED WITH HIS WIFE BY PHONE ON SATURDAY SHE WAS IN TEXAS THEY SAY THAT HE TOLD HER THAT HE WASN'T FEELING WELL BUT PLANNED TO GO CANOEING ANYWAY AUTHORITIES BELIEVE THAT HE WENT OUT SHORTLY AFTER THAT MEANING THAT HE MAY HAVE BEEN MISSING FOR MORE THAN A DAY NATALIE BEFORE THE ALERT WAS SOUNDED ALL RIGHT CARL ROCHELLE THANKS SENIOR CITIZENS GET MORE THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE OF JUNK MAIL AND MUCH OF IT CAN COST THE OLDER AMERICANS WHAT LITTLE MONEY THEY HAVE TO LIVE ON C. N. N.'S ED GARSTEN LOOKS AT A DISTURBING STUDY UNDERWAY IN MICHIGAN IT'S A SCAM FILLED SATCHEL STUFFED WITH LETTERS OF INVITATION TO DECEPTION ADDRESSED TO OUR NATION'S OLDEST CITIZENS WE KNOW THAT EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK THE MICHIGAN SENIOR CITIZENS AND OTHERS ARE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY SLICK ADS HARD TO IGNORE COME ONS AND SOLICITATIONS FOR MONEY FROM ORGANIZATIONS LOOKING LIKE CHARITIES WHEN THE ONLY CAUSE THEY HAVE IS FATTENING THEIR OWN WALLETS TO PROVE THE POINT THE MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF RETIRED PEOPLE ASKED ONE HUNDRED SIX SENIORS TO COLLECT ALL THE JUNK MAIL THEY RECEIVED OVER A THIRTY DAY PERIOD OF THE ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED SIXTY SIX SOLICITATIONS RECEIVED STATEWIDE ALMOST ONE FIFTH WERE SWEEPSTAKES NOTICES FOLLOWED BY REQUESTS FOR MONEY BY CHARITIES ADS FOR MERCHANDISE AND CREDIT CARDS MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL FRANK KELLEY SAYS IT'S THE SWEEPSTAKES THAT ARE THE MOST ONEROUS HE GAVE AN EXAMPLE IT NAMES YOU AS A POTENTIAL WINNER AND TO SHOW YOU HOW BAD THIS IS IT SAYS THE PREVIOUS WINNER IS PATRICIA VINE THERE IS A SEPARATE ENTIRE SWEEPSTAKES THAT SAY THAT THE PREVIOUS WINNER IS PATRICIA VINE SO ALL THEY DID WAS CHANGE THE NAME AT THE TOP ELIZABETH PARKER REMEMBERS CALLING ON A PIECE OF MAIL SHE GOT ABOUT WINNING A CRUISE MY HUSBAND SAYS CALL THE EIGHT HUNDRED NUMBER WELL THAT WON'T COST YOU ANYTHING SO I CALLED THEM AND I SAY I NOTICED THAT IN YOUR CRUISE YOU SAID IT WAS SEVEN DAYS AND LA LA LA YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOW DO I GET THERE AND WHAT ABOUT THE HOTEL YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT WELL THAT WOULD BE ON YOU. I SAID WELL THAT'S NOT WHAT YOUR LETTER SAID THEN HE GOT VERY PERTURBED WITH ME AND SAYS WELL YOU CALLED ME I DIDN'T CALL YOU IN FACT THE STUDY CONTENDS THAT MAIL SCAMS ARE COSTING SENIORS FORTY BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR NATIONWIDE THE U. S. POSTAL SERVICE SAYS WHILE IT HAS NOT DONE A SCIENTIFIC STUDY ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE NATIONWIDE WOULD SUPPORT THE FINDINGS IN MICHIGAN THAT SENIOR CITIZENS ARE TARGETS OF CHOICE ELIZABETH PARKER CAN ATTEST TO THAT IF THE MAILMAN MISSED MY HOUSE HE'S SICK ED GARSTEN C. N. N. DETROIT WE'RE ALL PAYING MORE AT THE GAS PUMP FOR OUR AUTOMOBILE FUEL THE REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER FOR THE WHITE HOUSE IS SUGGESTING A REDUCTION IN THE GAS TAX PRESIDENT CLINTON IS SUGGESTING SOMETHING ELSE C. N. N. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT JILL DOUGHERTY IS WITH THE PRESIDENT IN CORAL GABLES FLORIDA WHAT'S HAPPENING DOWN THERE JILL WELL JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO WE HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT A PAPER ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE PRESIDENT ABOUT TWO STEPS THAT HE IS GOING TO BE TAKING IN CONNECTION WITH THE RISE IN GAS PRICES BUT FIRST HE SAYS HE IS ASKING THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY HAZEL O'LEARY TO IMMEDIATELY BEGIN THE PROCESS OF WHAT HE CALLS ORDERLY SALES' OF APPROXIMATELY TWELVE MILLION BARRELS OF OUR NATION'S STRATEGIC PETROLEUM RESERVES THIS STEP WAS AUTHORIZED HE SAYS IN THE STATEMENT BY CONGRESS LAST WEEK AS PART OF THE OMNIBUS APPROPRIATIONS BILL AND SECOND HE IS ASKING THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY TO REVIEW MARKET CIRCUMSTANCES AND REPORT BACK TO HIM WITHIN FORTY FIVE DAYS ABOUT THE FACTORS THAT LED TO THE RUN UP IN PRICES AS PART OF THAT ANALYSIS THE PRESIDENT IS ASKING THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY TO EVALUATE THE EXPECTED MARKET PRICES FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE PEAK SUMMER DRIVING SEASON THE PRESIDENT IN HIS STATEMENT SAYS I BELIEVE THOSE ARE THE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO TAKE AT THIS TIME MY ADMINISTRATION WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR DEVELOPMENTS IN THE MARKET IN THE COMING WEEKS SO AS YOU MENTIONED THERE HAS BEEN HEIGHTENED CONCERN NOT ONLY AMONG CONSUMERS BUT AMONG MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR SOME TYPE OF ACTION TO BE TAKEN ON THIS AND IT ALSO HAS BECOME A POLITICAL FOOTBALL AS YOU MENTIONED WITH SENATOR DOLE AND OTHERS REPUBLICANS CALLING FOR A CUT IN THE GAS TAX NOW WE HAVE WHAT PRESIDENT CLINTON WANTS TO DO HAS THIS BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR AWHILE JILL OR IS THIS A WAY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO TRUMP WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE PROPOSING THIS SEEMS TO BE PRETTY RECENT ALTHOUGH THE FIRST STEP THE PRESIDENT DOES SAY THE SELLING THE BARRELS OF THE NATION'S STRATEGIC PETROLEUM PRESERVES WAS ACTUALLY AUTHORIZED LAST WEEK BUT TAKING THIS STEP IS A NEW ONE ALL RIGHT JILL DOUGHERTY WITH THE PRESIDENT IN CORAL GABLES FLORIDA LIVE A MODERATE LIFE AND AVOID RADIATION IT IS LOGICAL ADVICE FOR ANYONE BUT DOCTORS TALKING ABOUT STRATEGIES OF AVOIDING BREAST CANCER SAY IT IS ESPECIALLY VALUABLE ADVICE FOR WOMEN DOCTORS BEING DOCTORS THEY HAVE MANAGED TO DISAGREE ON SOMETHING C. N. N. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT DAN RUTZ HAS OUR REPORT NO ONE CATCHES BREAST CANCER LIKE THEY MIGHT CATCH A COLD BUT MORE WOMEN ARE GETTING IT AND AT YOUNGER AGES RESEARCHERS ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHY AND MY AUNT I'VE HAD MY LAST SEVEN AUNTS TO DIE FROM BREAST CANCER WOMEN CAN LEARN TO EXAMINE THEIR BREASTS FOR LUMPS THEY ARE URGED TO HAVE THE DOCTOR CHECK THEM EACH YEAR AS WELL AND THERE'S MAMMOGRAPHY THE X. RAY EXAM THAT CAN REVEAL BREAST CANCERS THAT ARE TOO SMALL TO FEEL DETECTING CANCER EARLY MAY IMPROVE THE CHANCES OF BEATING IT BUT WHAT ABOUT PREVENTING THE DISEASE IN THE FIRST PLACE I THINK WE UNDERSTAND ENOUGH TO USE THE WORD CAUSE IN THE WAY WE USE IT IN POPULAR IN POPULAR LANGUAGE AT THE M. D. ANDERSON BREAST DISEASE CONFERENCE IN HOUSTON TEXAS DOCTOR RICHARD LEFF ADMITS IT'S HARD TO PIN DOWN THE CAUSE OF INDIVIDUAL BREAST CANCER CASES BUT IT'S BECOMING MUCH EASIER TO SEE TRENDS THOSE THINGS THAT APPEAR TO INCREASE OR DECREASE THE CHANCES OF DEVELOPING THE DISEASE AGE AT FULL FIRST TERM PREGNANCY OR CHOOSING NOT TO HAVE A CHILD THOSE ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT AND POWERFUL PREDICTORS OF WHETHER WOMEN WILL DEVELOP BREAST CANCER WHEN YOU LOOK THINGS IN A FOR A FULL POPULATION CHANGES IN THE BREAST ESPECIALLY DURING LATE PREGNANCY APPEAR TO HELP PROTECT THE CELLS THAT ARE MOST LIKELY TO BECOME CANCEROUS YEARS LATER ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG WOMEN TEENAGE MOTHERS MAY CUT IN HALF THEIR RISK OF HAVING BREAST CANCER LATER IN LIFE ONE AS SOCIAL POLICY DOESN'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE WOMEN TO HAVE CHILDREN IN THEIR TEENS BREAST FEEDING ALSO APPEARS TO BE PROTECTIVE AND IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DEVELOP WHAT AMOUNTS TO A PSEUDO PREGNANCY RESEARCHERS ARE WORKING ON WAYS TO DUPLICATE THE PROTECTION EARLY CHILD BEARING BRINGS TO BREAST CELLS BUT FOR WOMEN FACING THE RISK NOW LOVE ENDORSES THE ADVICE DOCTORS LIKE RICHARD LEFF OFFERS HIS PATIENTS IN ATLANTA LESS ALCOHOL MORE VEGETABLES AND PLENTY OF EXERCISE I THINK YOU CHARACTERIZE THEM AS HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF EFFECTIVENESS AND IMPROVING THE CHANCE A LITTLE BIT OF THEM NOT GETTING CANCER IN GENERAL AND BREAST CANCER SPECIFICALLY THIS WOMEN IS PART OF A TOMOXIFIN STUDY TO SEE IF THAT DRUG HELPS PREVENT HEREDITARY BREAST CANCER BUT LOVE DOUBTS THAT STRONG DRUGS LIKE TOMOXIFIN WILL BE USEFUL TO MOST WOMEN BECAUSE OF POSSIBLY HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS THE NUMBER ONE RISK FACTOR FOR BREAST CANCER IS BEING A WOMAN BUT THAT RISK VARIES WIDELY DEPENDING ON WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU LIVE SO RESEARCHERS ARE TAKING A GLOBAL VIEW THEY SAY THE KEYS TO PREVENTION MAY BE HIDDEN IN THE RICH DIVERSITY OF LIFESTYLES DAN RUTZ C. N. N. HOUSTON THERE'S NEW EVIDENCE IF YOU EAT LESS YOU MIGHT LIVE LONGER AND C. N. N.'S EUGENIA HALSEY EXPLAINS JUST HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO LOSE IN ORDER TO GAIN THOSE EXTRA YEARS THE SEARCH FOR THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH DOES IT LIE IN A CREAM A PILL A MAGIC POTION THESE MONKEYS STUDIED FOR ALMOST A DECADE NOW MAY PROVIDE SOME CLUES WHEN RESEARCHERS AT THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE ON AGING GAVE THEM LESS TO EAT THIRTY PERCENT FEWER CALORIES THAN NORMAL THEY WERE HEALTHIER THAN MONKEYS ON A NON RESTRICTED DIET THEY WERE MORE ACTIVE AND APPEARED LESS LIKELY TO DEVELOP AGE ASSOCIATED DISEASES THE SAME COULD TURN OUT TO BE TRUE FOR PEOPLE AND DEEP CALORIC RESTRICTION MIGHT HAVE SOME BENEFICIAL EFFECTS ON HUMANS CERTAINLY AT PREVENTING OR DELAYING SOME OF THE DISEASES OF AGING AND POSSIBLY AFFECTING THE AGING PROCESS ITSELF HOW MIGHT CUTTING CALORIES SLOW DOWN AGING WELL WHEN THESE MONKEYS WERE GIVEN LESS TO EAT THEIR METABOLISM SLOWED RESULTING IN A LOWER BODY TEMPERATURE SCIENTISTS THEORIZE A LOWER BODY TEMPERATURE MAY HAVE A BENEFICIAL EFFECT ON CELLS RESULTING IN LESS D. N. A. DAMAGE IN DEVELOPMENT OF TUMORS THE ORGANISM SEEMS TO SHIFT FROM A GROWTH AND REPRODUCTION STRATEGY TO A SURVIVAL STRATEGY SO THAT PROTECTIVE MECHANISMS WORK BETTER THE ABILITY TO RESIST STRESSES BETTER SIXTY YEARS OF RESEARCH ON MICE AND RATS HAVE SHOWN SIMILAR EFFECTS ON LIFE SPAN WHEN CALORIES WERE CUT AND A RECENT STUDY OF WOMEN WHO STAYED LEAN SHOWED THEY HAD A LOWER RISK OF DISEASE SOME HEALTH EXPERTS SAY THESE STUDIES MAY HELP ERASE THE MISCONCEPTION THAT IT IS O. K. TO PUT ON POUNDS AS YOU GET OLDER BUT THEY QUESTION THE PRACTICAL EFFECTS I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW MANY PEOPLE COULD CUT A THIRD OF THEIR CALORIES FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME INSTEAD SAYS DOCTOR ROTH IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE ONE DAY TO DEVELOP A DRUG THAT WOULD ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL IF WE COULD TARGET THAT TRAUMATOLOGICALLY THEN YOU COULD STILL EAT ENJOY ALL THE JUNK FOOD THAT YOU WANT TAKE THE MAGIC PILL AND GET THE BENEFICIAL AND ANTI AGING EFFECTS UNTIL THEN THE SECRET TO A LONG LIFE MAY REMAIN ELUSIVE EUGENIA HALSEY C. N. N. BALTIMORE WELL ONE WEDDING RITUAL DATES BACK TO THE LAST CENTURY WHEN SLAVERY WAS LEGAL IN AMERICA IT IS CALLED JUMPING THE BROOM AND AS C. N. N.'S MARY ANN MCRAE REPORTS THE RITUAL'S MODERN DAY POPULARITY IS CREATING SOME CONTROVERSY MONICA AND SAMUEL HENDRICKS JUMPED THE BROOM AT THE AFROCENTRIC WEDDING SO DID ROXANNE AND GREGORY SINGER AT THEIR WORE TRADITIONAL ONE BOTH COUPLES SEEKING TO HONOR THEIR ANCESTORS AND REMEMBER THE PAST THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS WHERE OUR ANCESTORS DISCOVERED SOMETHING VERY BEAUTIFUL OUT OF SOMETHING VERY DARK HARRIETTE COLE WHO HAS WEDDING PLANNERS ENTITLED JUMPING THE BROOM SAYS THE RITUAL WAS USED BY AFRICAN AMERICAN SLAVES STRIPPED OF THEIR LEGAL RIGHT TO MARRY SHE TOO JUMPED THE BROOM AT HER WEDDING WE FELT AS IF WE WERE WAY HIGH IN THE AIR FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND MANY PEOPLE SAID TO US THAT THEY FELT THAT AS WELL IN THAT MOMENT I SAW MY GRANDMOTHER'S FACE THEN IN THE EYES OF JESUS JUMP OVER THE BROOM INTO THE LAND OF MATRIMONY BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL ALEX HALEY'S BEST SELLING NOVEL ROOTS AND ITS TELEVISED VERSION IN NINETEEN SEVENTY SEVEN THAT JUMPING THE BROOM BEGAN SLOWLY FINDING ITS WAY INTO MODERN MARRIAGES EVEN THOUGH WE NOW HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER THAT SAYS YOU ARE MAN AND WIFE YOUR HERITAGE AND YOUR PEOPLE THEY JUMPED A BROOM AND THAT MADE THEM MAN AND WIFE AND I THINK THAT IS MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN THE PAPER WE CAME A LONG WAY FROM SLAVERY AND IT SHOULDN'T BE JUST THROWN AWAY THROWN OUT THE WINDOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OUR ANCESTORS DID AND WE SHOULD DO IT ALSO NOT EVERYONE AGREES DOCTOR MAULANA KARENGA SAYS JUMPING THE BROOM HAS NO HISTORICAL OR CULTURAL VALIDITY IF IT DID EXIST AT ALL HE SAYS IT WAS CREATED BY SLAVE OWNERS HOW CAN A BROOM A KITCHEN ITEM CONNECT YOU TO YOUR HERITAGE DOCTOR KARENGA SAYS THE RITUAL DEMEANS AFRICAN HISTORY AND CULTURE WE BUILT THE FIRST MAJOR CIVILIZATION IN THE WORLD IN VALLEY AND TAUGHT THE WORLD TRUTH GOODNESS BEAUTY THE FUNDAMENTAL DISCIPLINES OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE HOW ARE JUMPING OVER A BROOM IF YOU SEE THAT THERE'S BEAUTY IN THE PATH THAT OUR ANCESTORS PAVED FOR US THEN THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH INCORPORATING IT INTO YOUR WEDDING MANY COUPLES APPARENTLY DO SEE THE BEAUTY WEDDING BROOM SALES ARE UP AND MORE AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE CHOOSING AN AGES OLD RITUAL TO SYMBOLIZE THE SACREDNESS OF THEIR NEW HOME MARY ANN MCRAE C. N. N. NEW YORK AGING OFTEN COMES WITH ITS OWN SET OF ACHES PAINS DISEASES AND AILMENTS BUT LIKE THE SONG SAYS TAIN'T NECESSARILY SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS THE WORLD HEALTH CONFERENCE ON HEALTHY AGING IS UNDER WAY IN NEW YORK NOW JOINING US JEFFREY BLUMBERG WHO IS ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR SENIOR SCIENTIST AND A CHIEF OF THE ANTI OXIDANT RESEARCH LABORATORY AT TUFTS UNIVERSITY ALSO ALEXANDRE KALACH CHIEF OF AGING AND HEALTH FOR THE WORLD HEALTH CONFERENCE MR. BLUMBERG WHAT IS FOR INSTANCE WHAT FIRST OF ALL IS WORLD HEALTH CONFERENCE ON HEALTHY AGING AND HOW DOES YOUR WORK ON ANTI AGING OXIDANTS FIT INTO ALL OF THAT WELL THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ARE GETTING READY FOR NINETEEN NINETY NINE WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE YEAR OF THE OLDER ADULT AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO PROMOTE HEALTHY AGING AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE RECOGNIZE IS THAT DIET AND NUTRITION ARE A VERY PART OF PROLONGING THE HEALTH SPAN AND ALLOWING OLDER PEOPLE TO LEAD INDEPENDENT AND PRODUCTIVE LIVES WE'VE KNOWN THAT FOR A LONG TIME THOUGH HAVE WE NOT OH BUT OUR KNOWLEDGE IS INCREASING DRAMATICALLY WE REALLY HAVE NEW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE ABOUT THE KINDS OF DIETS THAT ARE MOST HEALTHFUL AND WE'RE EVEN BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE WHICH INGREDIENTS WITHIN THE DIET WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE INCREASED CONSUMPTION OF IN ORDER TO PROLONG THE HEALTH SPAN AND DELAY THE RISK OF CHRONIC DISEASES LIKE HEART DISEASE AND CANCER OSTEOPOROSIS AND CATARACTS THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NEW INFORMATION AND THE UNITED NATIONS AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ARE LOOKING FOR WAYS NOW TO TRANSLATE THE SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION INTO NEW PUBLIC HEALTH POLICIES AND MR. KALACH OUTSIDE OF EATING HABITS WHAT ELSE ARE IMPORTANT FACTORS THAN OLDER FOLKS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HEALTHY AGING THE FIRST THING THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS REALLY TO CONTINUE TO BE ACTIVELY INVOLVED AND SOCIALLY INTEGRATED INTO SOCIETY ACTIVE LIFE MEANING BOTH PHYSICAL AND MENTAL AND FOR ME AS HEAD OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION PROGRAM ON AGING AND HEALTH IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN PERSPECTIVE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED MILLION ELDERLY PEOPLE BY THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND TWENTY SO DIET YES SUPPLEMENTS YES IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS TOWARDS A HEALTHY BALANCED DIET WHICH MEANS A GOOD AMOUNT OF FRESH FRUITS VEGETABLES MODERATE ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION LOW SALT INTAKE LOW FAT INTAKE AND THESE OTHER THINGS THAT REALLY WILL MEAN THAT IN THE FUTURE AS WE APPROACH THE NEXT CENTURY THE CENTURY OF AGING AND LET ME ASK YOU HOW DO YOU INFLUENCE SOCIETIES TO HELP ENCOURAGE OLDER PEOPLE TO LIVE THE WAY THEY SHOULD THEN HOW DO THE SOCIETY THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS ONE OF THEM IS MOST IMPORTANT IS WORKING WITH THE MEDIA RAISING AWARENESS BRINGING THE ADVOCACY MAKING SURE THAT ALL PEOPLE GOVERNMENTS THE DIFFERENT AGENTS WILL UNDERSTAND THAT AGING IS A SOCIETAL ISSUE WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IF WE REALLY WANT TO REACH THE NEXT CENTURY IN A BETTER WAY FOR THE ELDERLY WHICH INCLUDES US WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE COHORTS US THE FUTURE ELDERLY PEOPLE AND MR. BLUMBERG WE CAN'T TAKE THE TIME TO COVER IT ALL BUT WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR WORK ON WHAT'S BEING CALLED TOXIC OXYGEN AND THIS OXIDATIVE STRESS THAT IS NOW CHIPPING AWAY AT US AS WE AGE CAN YOU GIVE US A THUMBNAIL SKETCH OF WHAT THAT'S ALL ABOUT WELL ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LEARNING IS THAT AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE AGING PROCESS ITSELF IS OUR VERY DANGEROUS FRIEND OXYGEN WHILE WE NEED IT TO LIVE ITS BYPRODUCTS CALLED OXYGEN FREE RADICALS ARE VERY TOXIC AND MAY IN FACT BE THE BASIS FOR HEART DISEASE CANCER AND SOME OF THE OTHER CHRONIC DISEASES WE SEE COMMON AMONG OLDER PEOPLE LIKE CATARACTS AND MACULAR DEGENERATION AND TO THE EXTEND THIS REALLY IS TRUE THEN WE SEEM TO HAVE SOME EVIDENCE FROM A VARIETY OF CLINICAL TRIALS AND EPIDEMIOLOGICAL OBSERVATIONS THAT INCREASING OUR INTAKE OF DIETARY ANTI OXIDANTS LIKE VITAMINS C. AND E. AND THE CAROTENOID INCLUDING BETA CAROTENE SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH A REDUCED RISK FOR THESE DISEASES SO WE CAN NOW START TO MAKE DIETARY RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT HOW TO OUR ANTI OXIDANT INTAKE IN ORDER PROMOTE HEALTH AND REDUCE THE RISK OF THESE TERRIBLE CHRONIC DISEASES AMONG OLDER PEOPLE ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH MELATONIN THAT IS BEING ADVERTISED NOW SOME SAY BY SNAKE OIL SALESMEN OTHERS SAY MELATONIN IS THE MIRACLE DRUG THAT NOT ONLY CAN STOP AGING BUT IT CAN ACTUALLY REVERSE IT DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT CAN YOU SHED ANY CLINICAL LIGHT ON THAT WELL MELATONIN IS REALLY A HORMONE IT'S NOT A NUTRIENT AND I THINK THERE IS RESEARCH DEMONSTRATING THAT IT MAY HAVE SOME BENEFITS AS A SEDATIVE AND WHILE IT'S BEEN TOUTED AS AN ANTI AGING HORMONE I THINK THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE IS VERY FAR FROM COMPLETE ABOUT ANY EFFICACY IT MAY HAVE AND INDEED WHEN LOOKING AT THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS OF COMPOUNDS LIKE MELATONIN I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE POTENTIAL RISKS THAT LONG TERM USE OF IT WOULD BRING TO MR. KALACH WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF EATING WELL AS YOU AGE AND STAYING INTEGRATED INTO SOCIETY BUT OVERALL HOW ARE PEOPLE DOING WITH THAT WELL THAT IS THE IMPORTANT THING THAT WE HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND HERE GOOD INFORMATION IS ESSENTIAL FOR PEOPLE TO KEEP A GOOD DIET NOW WHO THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IS NOT YET ENDORSING THAT WE SHOULD SUPPLEMENT OUR DIET ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BUT WE ARE DEFINITELY SAYING EAT MORE FRESH VEGETABLES EAT MORE FRESH FRUITS CONSUME LESS FAT CONSUME LESS SALT AND THE CHANCES ARE THAT THESE CHRONIC DISEASES THAT YOU WERE TALKING BEFORE WILL DECLINE AND YOUR RISK OF HAVING THEM WILL DEFINITELY BE MUCH LOWER AND WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE YEAR OF THE ELDERLY COMING UP IN NINETEEN NINETY NINE WHAT THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT WHAT THE SIGNIFICANCE WHAT YOU HOPE TO SEE THE FIRST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT OLD AGE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CELEBRATE AS WE GO TO THE NEXT CENTURY IT IS VERY FORTUNATE THAT THE UNITED NATIONS HAS DECIDED TO CALL NINETEEN NINETY NINE AS THE INTERNATIONAL YEAR FOR OLDER PERSONS IT IS THE FAREWELL TO THIS CENTURY AND THE NEXT CENTURY WILL BE DOMINATED BY AGING WE'LL HAVE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES DIFFERENT WAYS TO CELEBRATE AND THIS CONFERENCE THAT WE ARE CO ORGANIZING HERE IN NEW YORK IS THE MAJOR FIRST OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO ADDRESS WHAT IS TO COME A CELEBRATION FOR NINETEEN NINETY NINE EITHER OF YOU CAN TAKE THIS ONE THE SIGNIFICANCE NOW WE KNOW THAT IN THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL A BABY BOOM GENERATION AGING AT THE RATE OF ABOUT ONE EVERY NINETY SECONDS BECOMING AGE FIFTY BUT THIS IS A WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON AND WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF AN AGING WORLD ESPECIALLY A HEALTHY AGING WORLD IT'S TREMENDOUS THE SIGNIFICANCE BECAUSE BY THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND TWENTY WE WILL HAVE OVER ONE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED MILLION ELDERLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS IN CHINA ALONE WE WILL HAVE TWO HUNDRED EIGHTY FOUR MILLION ELDERLY PEOPLE BY THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND TWENTY WHICH IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION TODAY OF THE UNITED STATES THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS HOW WE ARE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE FUTURE GENERATIONS OF ELDERLY PEOPLE AND WE ARE ALL HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ADULTS OF TODAY HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT THESE PEOPLE WILL AGE WELL AND THE VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE IS TO KEEP ACTIVE TO KEEP WITH A WELL BALANCED NATURAL DIET TO KEEP SOCIALLY INTEGRATED AND THESE ARE THE MESSAGES THAT WE WANT TO CONVEY AND SHARE WITH THE POPULATION THAT IS GOING TO GROW OLDER IF WE DON'T DO THAT THEN THE PRICE CAN BE IMMENSE BECAUSE IT PUTS A STRAIN ON BOTH THE HEALTH AND THE SOCIAL SECTOR AND MR. BLUMBERG YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT I THINK HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND IT'S THE STRONG MESSAGE I THINK WE NEED TO GET ACROSS THE WAY WE'RE GOING TO APPROACH DEALING WITH THIS ENORMOUS DEMOGRAPHIC IMPERATIVE IS BY PREVENTION BY PREVENTING THE CHRONIC DISEASES AND PREVENTING THE DISABILITY AND THE FRAILTY ASSOCIATED WITH OLD AGE AND WE KNOW WE CAN DO THAT WE KNOW WE CAN DO THAT BY INCREASING PHYSICAL ACTIVITY AND IMPROVING NUTRITION AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS MASSIVE NUMBER OF OLDER PEOPLE BY BETTER WAYS TO TREAT THESE DISEASES WE'VE GOT TO PREVENT THEM AND NOW IS THE TIME TO BEGIN THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US AND GOOD LUCK ON YOUR WORK JEFFREY BLUMBERG AND ALEXANDRE KALACH REPUBLICANS ACKNOWLEDGE THEY WILL EXAMINE THE PRESIDENT'S WHITEWATER TESTIMONY FOR POLITICAL AMMUNITION MR. CLINTON SPENT THREE AND A HALF HOURS GIVING HIS VIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION YESTERDAY BOB FRANKEN IS ON THE WHITEWATER BEAT BOB WHAT DO YOU HEAR ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S SUNDAY AT HOME AT THE WHITE HOUSE HOW'D IT GO JUST A STANDARD SUNDAY AT HOME HE WENT OUT JOGGING HE WENT TO CHURCH HE SPENT THREE AND A HALF HOURS BEING QUESTIONED BY LAWYERS BY ALL ACCOUNTS IT WENT VERY VERY WELL FOR THE PRESIDENT DEFENSE ATTORNEYS UNANIMOUSLY ARE ECSTATIC THEY THINK THAT HE'S GOING TO HELP THEIR CASE IN THE WHITEWATER TRIAL THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL KENNETH STARR DID NOT SHOW UP SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN EXPECTED AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF CRITICISM ABOUT HIS NOT BEING THERE TODAY THIS IS AFTER ALL SEMI HISTORICAL HAVING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES INTERROGATED BY THIS HE WAS IN TOWN HE DIDN'T GO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS BECAUSE HE'S SO CONTROVERSIAL HE DIDN'T SHOW UP BOB LETS TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF FINGERPRINTS NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE AS YOU KNOW IS QUOTING A SOURCE AS SAYING F. B. I. EXPERTS FOUND HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ON THOSE MYSTERIOUS BILLING RECORDS THAT SHOWED UP MYSTERIOUSLY ONE DAY AT THE WHITE HOUSE I GUESS THE BASIC QUESTION IS SO WHAT WELL THAT SEEMS TO BE THE QUESTION THE WHITE HOUSE IS GETTING BOLDER NOW AND POINTING OUT THAT OF COURSE HER FINGERPRINTS WOULD HAVE SHOWED UP THEY WERE BILLING RECORDS HER BILLING RECORDS FINGERPRINTS WE HEAR FROM THE SCIENTISTS CAN LAST TWENTY YEARS SO THE WHITE HOUSE IS ASKING THE SAME QUESTION YOU JUST DID SO WHAT ALL RIGHT BOB THANKS VERY MUCH PRESIDENT CLINTON IS HARDLY THE FIRST CHIEF EXECUTIVE TO TRY TO STEP UP THE FIGHT AGAINST ILLEGAL DRUGS WITH AN EMPHASIS ON YOUNG PEOPLE IT'S SEEMINGLY A POPULAR IDEA ESPECIALLY IN FLORIDA A FRONT LINE IN THE DRUG FIGHT AND IN THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN STILL MR. CLINTON'S FLORIDA TRIP WAS BY NO MEANS CRITICISM FREE LET'S CHECK IN NOW WITH JILL DOUGHERTY SHE'S IN CORAL GABLES JILL JUDY CRIME IS A RED HOT ISSUE THIS ELECTION YEAR AND RIGHT NOW BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE PLAYING A GAME OF POLITICAL ONE UPSMANSHIP TRYING TO SHOW WHO'S DOING MORE TO FIGHT IT TODAY PRESIDENT CLINTON NARROWED HIS TARGET TO FIGHTING DRUGS IN THE CRUCIAL ELECTORAL STATE OF FLORIDA PRESIDENT CLINTON USED THE BACKDROP OF A MIAMI AREA MIDDLE SCHOOL TO ANNOUNCE A NEW DRUG CONTROL STRATEGY AIMED PRIMARILY AT YOUNG PEOPLE THE MOST PERPLEXING PROBLEM THAT WE FACE IN THIS AREA IS THIS WHILE THE DRUG RATE HAS GONE DOWN DRUG USAGE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP WHILE THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE DOWN RANDOM VIOLENCE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP THE CHILDREN WHO ARE HERE TODAY ARE THE BATTLEGROUND OF TODAY AND TOMORROW BUT THE PRESIDENT HARDLY HAD A CHANCE TO SHAKE SOME HANDS BEFORE FLORIDA REPUBLICANS GREETED HIM WITH AN AD IN THE MIAMI HERALD PURPORTEDLY OFFERING A FEDERAL JUDGESHIP FOR SALE RIDICULING CLINTON NOMINEE FOR U. S. APPEALS COURT CHARLES BUD STACK A FLORIDA LAWYER AND DEMOCRATIC ACTIVIST THE G. O. P. CLAIMS HIS SOLE QUALIFICATION IS HIS FUNDRAISING ABILITY THE WHITE HOUSE INSISTS STACK IS QUALIFIED AND IT'S FIRING BACK CITING A WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE IN WHICH SENATOR DOLE'S CRITICISM OF ANOTHER CLINTON APPOINTED JUDGE APPARENTLY BACKFIRED THE JUDGE WAS TRYING TO KEEP A CHRONIC SEX OFFENDER IN PRISON MEANWHILE BACK IN WASHINGTON REPUBLICANS DISMISSED THE PRESIDENT'S NEW DRUG CONTROL POLICY FOR THREE YEARS WHERE HAS THIS LEADERSHIP BEEN IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY VACANT IT'S BEEN SILENT IT HASN'T EXISTED IT'S SURRENDERED AND NOW WE HAVE AN ELECTION AND I THINK A POLLSTER INFORMED THE PRESIDENT HEY THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE AND DRUG USE IS UP AMONGST TEENAGERS AND SO FINALLY THIS SPEECH BUT THERE'S ONE CONSOLATION FOR THE PRESIDENT FLORIDA ONCE LOOKED LIKE A LOST CAUSE FOR THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN NOW HE'S MAKING INROADS INTO REPUBLICAN LEADS AND ON THIS TRIP HE'S TOUCHING ALL THE BASES HERE IN FLORIDA MEETING WITH THE FAMILIES OF CUBAN AMERICANS WHO WERE SHOT DOWN LAST MONTH NEAR CUBA AS WELL AS A LOOK AT ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND AS AN INSURANCE POLICY HE'S RAISING THREE MILLION DOLLARS FOR DEMOCRATIC COFFERS JUDY ALL RIGHT JILL DOUGHERTY THANKS IN FLORIDA TRAVELLING WITH THE PRESIDENT ALTHOUGH BOB DOLE'S STRATEGY IN HIS BATTLE TO TRADE UP HIS ADDRESS ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE IS VIEWED BY SOME AS UNCERTAIN ONE PART OF IT SEEMS SOLID THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER IS STRESSING HIS DIFFERENCES WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON BRUCE MORTON HAS THE LATEST ON THAT DOLE EFFORT BOB DOLE IN ANOTHER OF A SERIES OF SPEECHES DESIGNED TO CONTRAST HIS VIEWS WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON'S TODAY CALLED FOR THE ABOLITION OF PUBLIC HOUSING WHICH SHOULD BE REPLACED HE SAID BY VOUCHERS SO POOR PEOPLE COULD CHOOSE WHERE TO LIVE PUBLIC HOUSING IS ONE OF THE LAST BASTIONS OF SOCIALISM IN THE WORLD IMAGINE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT OWNS THE HOUSING WHERE AN ENTIRE CLASS OF CITIZENS PERMANENTLY LIVE WE ARE THE LANDLORDS OF MISERY LET ME BE CLEAR I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT HAS AN OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN A SAFETY NET BUT THESE PROGRAMS HAVE FAILED IN THAT MISSION THEY HAVE NOT ALLEVIATED POVERTY THEY HAVE NOT IN FACT THEY'VE DEEPENED IT RATHER THAN ALLEVIATED IT HOUSING VOUCHERS IN MY VIEW WOULD ENABLE POOR AMERICANS TO CHOOSE WHERE THEY'D LIKE TO LIVE JUST LIKE WE DO IN RESPONSE HOUSING SECRETARY HENRY CISNEROS ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING THE ADMINISTRATION WANTED VOUCHERS TOO I DON'T KNOW WHERE SENATOR DOLE WAS HE SAID WHILE MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY GUTTED THE ADMINISTRATION'S VOUCHER PROPOSAL AND WERE UNDERMINING WHAT HE CALLED FOR TODAY THE REST OF DOLE'S DAY REFLECTED HIS DOUBLE JOB THESE DAYS SENATE LEADER AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HE MET WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES SOMETHING A CANDIDATE OR A SENATE LEADER MIGHT DO AND ON THE SENATE FLOOR ATTACKED THE ADMINISTRATION OVER THE TRADE DEFICIT WITH JAPAN AND CRIME BUT IT'S IN THESE ISSUE SPEECHES THAT DOLE SEEMS TO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT HIS DIFFERENCES WITH THE PRESIDENT TODAY'S ON HOUSING WAS THE SECOND THE FIRST STEP WAS CRIME AND PERMISSIVE JUDGES MORE ARE ON THE WAY BRUCE MORTON C. N. N. WASHINGTON SPECULATION ROSS PEROT MIGHT RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN THIS YEAR HAS BEEN FUELED BY PEROT'S CREATION OF A NEW POLITICAL PARTY AS WELL BY HINTS DROPPED BY PEROT HIMSELF EARLIER TODAY I TALKED WITH POLLSTER GORDON BLACK WHO DID SURVEYS FOR PEROT IN NINETEEN NINETY TWO HE HAS A NEW POLL ON THIRD PARTY ENTHUSIASM I BEGAN BY ASKING BLACK HOW BIG IS THE MARKET FOR A THIRD PARTY WELL OUR ESTIMATE OF THE MINIMUM SIZE OF THE PEOPLE WOULD BE REALLY WILLING TO DEFECT FROM THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM IS ROUGHLY ABOUT TWENTY TWO PERCENT OF THE VOTERS RIGHT NOW AND THAT'S REMAINED CONSTANT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS IF YOU PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE AND SUBTRACT SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS WOULD BE LARGER BUT BOTH OF THEM IN FACT WOULD STILL BE IN THE TWENTY PERCENTILE BRACKET AT ITS SIMPLEST LEVEL WHY ARE PEOPLE TELLING YOU THERE'S A NEED FOR A THIRD PARTY I THINK THE SIMPLEST LEVEL IS THAT THE VOTER HAS BECOME SUCCESSIVELY ALIENATED OVER THE PAST THIRTY YEARS THE HARRIS ALIENATION INDEX INDICATES THAT ROUGHLY TWO OF EVERY THREE VOTERS ARE ALIENATED THE PRIMARY ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS IS THE SENSE OF DISEMPOWERMENT FROM THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES APPEAR TO HAVE GONE OUT TO THE EXTREMES THE REPUBLICANS OUT ON THE RIGHT AND THE DEMOCRATS OUT ON THE LEFT AND IT'S LEFT THE BULK OF THE VOTERS WHICH MOST AMERICANS ARE THE MODERATES WITHOUT A POLITICAL PARTY TODAY FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF AMERICANS THE TERM THIRD PARTY HAS BEEN SYNONYMOUS FOR QUITE A WHILE WITH ROSS PEROT NOW WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THAT NUMBER HAS IT GROWN OR HAS IT GOTTEN SMALLER WELL ROSS PEROT'S VOTE SINCE THE FIRST OF THE YEAR HAS DROPPED FROM WHAT WAS RIGHT AROUND THE TWENTY MARK DOWN TO ABOUT THE FIFTEEN MARK IT DEPENDS ON WHICH SURVEY YOU DO THE LOW IS FOURTEEN PERCENT THE HIGH IS ABOUT EIGHTEEN PERCENT THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD JUMP SHIP TO A THIRD PARTY IS ABOUT TWENTY TWO PERCENT BUT THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY WOULD CONSIDER PEROT IS AT ABOUT TWENTY SIX PERCENT SO RIGHT NOW PEROT IS ACTUALLY WEAKER IN SOME RESPECTS THAT THE THIRD PARTY MOVEMENT ITSELF AND HOW ABOUT THIS DEBATE OVER EXACTLY WHICH CANDIDATE BOB DOLE OR BILL CLINTON WOULD BE MOST AFFECTED NEGATIVELY BY A THIRD PARTY CANDIDACY WHERE DO YOU FALL ON THAT WHAT ARE YOUR NUMBERS TELLING YOU WELL RIGHT NOW OUR NUMBERS SAY THAT BY ABOUT A FIFTEEN POINT MARGIN THE VOTERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY VOTING FOR PEROT WOULD SUPPORT CLINTON OVER DOLE SO EFFECTIVELY PEROT IS PULLING VOTES FROM CLINTON AT A HIGHER RATE THAN FROM DOLE HOWEVER WHEN WE LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF THE PEOPLE IN BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES WHO WOULD LIKE TO DEFECT IT TURNS OUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY EQUAL FROM BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES THE RATE OF DEFECTION SO WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST OVER THE PAST TWO OR THREE MONTHS IS PEROT'S GOTTEN WEAKER AMONG COLLEGE EDUCATED PEOPLE THAT MEANS THAT THOSE ARE REPUBLICANS ON THE WHOLE GOING BACK TO DOLE AND IT LOOKS LIKE HE NOW HELPS DOLE OVER CLINTON IN EFFECT BECAUSE HE'S PULLING FEWER FROM DOLE THAN FROM CLINTON MR. BLACK IF THERE HAS BEEN STABILITY IN THE COLUMN OF NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL A THIRD PARTY IS REQUIRED ARE WE AT ALL CLOSE TO THE CRITICAL MASS IT WOULD TAKE TO ELECT A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE AS PRESIDENT WELL I THINK WE ARE BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S THERE'S A CHICKEN AND EGG QUESTION IN ALL OF THIS YOU KNOW YOU CAN HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE WILLING TO VOTE FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE IN FACT IN ONE OF OUR QUESTIONS IT'S SIXTY ONE PERCENT SAY THEY'RE WILLING TO VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE OF A THIRD PARTY IF IN FACT THAT CANDIDATE WOULD REPRESENT THEIR POINT OF VIEW OVER THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ENTITY OUT THERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO RUN FOR OFFICE AND HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMMUNICATE AND THAT'S NOT IN PLACE YET THAT'S WHAT REALLY PEROT'S BEEN TRYING TO CREATE FOR THE LAST YEAR AND IS GOING TO CONTINUE APPARENTLY ON AND UNTIL THAT'S IN PLACE YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER THE VOTERS BUT IT'S CLEARLY THE CASE THAT THERE IS A MARKET THAT EVENTUALLY EITHER THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR COULD ELECT SOMEBODY TO A SIGNIFICANT OFFICE WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR EITHER OF THE MAJOR PARTIES TO CO OPT THIS THIRD PARTY MOMENTUM WELL PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE INABILITY OF THE TWO PARTIES TO GO BACK TO THE CENTER IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS LARGELY CAPTIVE BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE CHRISTIAN COALITION THE SOCIAL RIGHT THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE COMMITED TO VERY CONSERVATIVE SOCIAL POSITIONS AND IT'S CANDIDATES FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY TO MOVE BACK TO THE CENTER THE SAME THING IS TRUE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IT'S GOT ITS URBAN BLACK COALITION IT HAS THE WELFARE COALITION THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS WHO PULL IT TO THE LEFT MR. BLACK YOUR NUMBERS MAKE FOR FASCINATING READING THANKS VERY MUCH THANK YOU VERY MUCH IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE BUT IT HAS JUST BEEN SIXTY NINE DAYS SINCE NEW HAMPSHIRE'S FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY MADE IT THE CENTER OF THE CAMPAIGN NINETY SIX UNIVERSE WHAT IS THE POLITICAL MOOD IN THE GRANITE STATE NOW WE SENT OUR MARC WATTS TO INVESTIGATE APRIL IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THE SNOW HAS MELTED AND GIVEN NEW LIFE TO THE RIVERS AND IT'S A NEW SEASON IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE WINTER IS GONE AND THE POLITICAL SEASON IS A FADING MEMORY THE TOWN OF MILFORD THE NIGHT BEFORE THE FEBRUARY ELECTION JUST A MEMORY LINGERS TODAY IN THE TOWN SQUARE. AND IN THE HAMLET KNOWN AS CENTER BARNSTEAD THE RUMBLE IN THE LUMBERYARD JUST A MEMORY NOW TOO SOME PEOPLE MISS IT OH YEAH ABSOLUTELY IT PUTS US ON THE MAP I MEAN OTHERWISE PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT US THAT WE'RE HERE DO NOT WAIT FOR ORDERS FROM HEADQUARTERS MOUNT UP EVERYBODY AND RIDE IN THE SADDLE FOR THE GUNS THE MAN WHO SOUNDED THAT BATTLE CRY RODE OUT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE A BIG WINNER BUT PAT BUCHANAN WAS EVENTUALLY TOPPLED BY BOB DOLE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER RACKED UP ENOUGH DELEGATES BY THE END OF MARCH TO CAPTURE THE G. O. P. NOMINATION BUT WITH THAT BATTLE OVER THE NOMINATING PROCESS HAS BEEN UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK A COMPRESSED PRIMARY SEASON THAT CRITICS SAY FAILED BECAUSE MANY VOTERS DID NOT GET TO PLAY A PART THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE HAS SET UP A TASK FORCE AND SECRETARIES OF STATE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE'S BILL GARDNER WILL CONVENE NEXT MONTH IN WASHINGTON TO DISCUSS THE PROCESS WE MAY COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT IS A CONSENSUS RECOMMENDATION AND IF WE DO THEN WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THAT TO THE PARTY NEW HAMPSHIRE'S FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY STATUS WILL CERTAINLY BE DISCUSSED AND PEOPLE HERE WILL FIGHT TO KEEP THEIR TITLE THIS IS A GOOD STATE TO START OFF IN BECAUSE IT IS A WILLING RECEPTIVE ACTIVE ENERGIZED CONSTITUENCY OF VOTERS SIT DOWN WITH VOTERS IN BLAKE'S RESTAURANT IN MANCHESTER A CANDIDATE'S STOP FOR A NEW CAMPAIGN AND YOU FIND OUT PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING POLITICS CLINTON HAS GOT MY VOTE I BELIEVE THAT HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO DO WHAT HE SAYS AND I THINK WE NEED A CHANGE AS FOR DOLE MANY HERE LIKE HIS EXPERIENCE AND CHARACTER BUT PEOPLE STILL HAVE QUESTIONS SOME THINK HE IS SHORT ON MESSAGE DOLE HERE NEEDED TO CONVINCE VOTERS THAT HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS TESTED LEADERSHIP WAS GOING TO BE DIRECTED AT SOMETHING THAT HE ARTICULATED AND I THINK THE SKEPTICISM ABOUT DOLE IN THIS STATE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME TO CHANGE PERCEPTION VOTERS HERE ARE LARGELY CONCERNED ABOUT ECONOMIC ISSUES AND THEY CAN'T BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED AS THEY PROVED TWO MONTHS AGO IN THE PRIMARY THEY HAVE PLENTY OF ABILITY TO SURPRISE MARC WATTS C. N. N. BEDFORD NEW HAMPSHIRE DIGGING FOR DIRT IS IT A MATTER OF DEFINITION WE TOLD YOU LAST WEEK ABOUT A MEMO IN WHICH THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP ASKED COMMITTEE CHAIRMEN TO SEARCH OFFICIAL FILES FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SPECIFICALLY EXAMPLES OF WASTE AND FRAUD DISHONESTY OR LABOR UNION CORRUPTION HOUSE SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH INSISTS THAT'S A LEGITIMATE SEARCH FOR DATA NOT DIRT WE'RE FACED WITH STONEWALLING BY THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION IN AREA AFTER AREA I HAVE ASKED AND WORK WITH THE SENATE AND HOUSE REPUBLICANS TO COORDINATE AND FIND OUT HOW MANY DIFFERENT PLACES THEY ARE REFUSING TO RELEASE DOCUMENTS WE HAVE SUBPOENAS FOR EXAMPLE WHICH HAVE BEEN SENT DOWN THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT OR THE HOUSE REFORM COMMITTEE WHICH HAVE BEEN IGNORED WE'VE HAD STONEWALLING BY DEPARTMENT AFTER DEPARTMENT WHICH HAVE REFUSED TO TURN OVER DOCUMENTS WE HAVE ALLEGATIONS OF VERY SERIOUS SCANDALS AND VERY SERIOUS COVERUPS AND I WANT I HAVE ASKED THAT WE PULL TOGETHER ALL THE DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OF WHERE THEY ARE REFUSING TO COOPERATE REPUBLICANS ACKNOWLEDGE THEY WILL EXAMINE THE PRESIDENT'S WHITEWATER TESTIMONY FOR POLITICAL AMMUNITION MR. CLINTON SPENT THREE AND A HALF HOURS GIVING HIS VIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION YESTERDAY BOB FRANKEN IS ON THE WHITEWATER BEAT BOB WHAT DO YOU HEAR ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S SUNDAY AT HOME AT THE WHITE HOUSE HOW'D IT GO JUST A STANDARD SUNDAY AT HOME HE WENT OUT JOGGING HE WENT TO CHURCH HE SPENT THREE AND A HALF HOURS BEING QUESTIONED BY LAWYERS BY ALL ACCOUNTS IT WENT VERY VERY WELL FOR THE PRESIDENT DEFENSE ATTORNEYS UNANIMOUSLY ARE ECSTATIC THEY THINK THAT HE'S GOING TO HELP THEIR CASE IN THE WHITEWATER TRIAL THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL KENNETH STARR DID NOT SHOW UP SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN EXPECTED AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF CRITICISM ABOUT HIS NOT BEING THERE TODAY THIS IS AFTER ALL SEMI HISTORICAL HAVING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES INTERROGATED BY THIS HE WAS IN TOWN HE DIDN'T GO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS BECAUSE HE'S SO CONTROVERSIAL HE DIDN'T SHOW UP BOB LETS TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF FINGERPRINTS NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE AS YOU KNOW IS QUOTING A SOURCE AS SAYING F. B. I. EXPERTS FOUND HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S FINGERPRINTS ON THOSE MYSTERIOUS BILLING RECORDS THAT SHOWED UP MYSTERIOUSLY ONE DAY AT THE WHITE HOUSE I GUESS THE BASIC QUESTION IS SO WHAT WELL THAT SEEMS TO BE THE QUESTION THE WHITE HOUSE IS GETTING BOLDER NOW AND POINTING OUT THAT OF COURSE HER FINGERPRINTS WOULD HAVE SHOWED UP THEY WERE BILLING RECORDS HER BILLING RECORDS FINGERPRINTS WE HEAR FROM THE SCIENTISTS CAN LAST TWENTY YEARS SO THE WHITE HOUSE IS ASKING THE SAME QUESTION YOU JUST DID SO WHAT ALL RIGHT BOB THANKS VERY MUCH THE GAS TAX IS THE LATEST ISSUE BOB DOLE IS USING TO FIRE AWAY AT THE MAN HE WANTS TO REPLACE AT SIXTEEN HUNDRED PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE BRUCE MORTON HAS A LOOK AT DOLE'S WE HAVE BIG DIFFERENCES' STRATEGY BOB DOLE IN ANOTHER OF A SERIES OF SPEECHES DESIGNED TO CONTRAST HIS VIEWS WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON'S TODAY CALLED FOR THE ABOLITION OF PUBLIC HOUSING WHICH SHOULD BE REPLACED HE SAID BY VOUCHERS SO POOR PEOPLE COULD CHOOSE WHERE TO LIVE PUBLIC HOUSING IS ONE OF THE LAST BASTIONS OF SOCIALISM IN THE WORLD IMAGINE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT OWNS THE HOUSING WHERE AN ENTIRE CLASS OF CITIZENS PERMANENTLY LIVE WE ARE THE LANDLORDS OF MISERY LET ME BE CLEAR I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT HAS AN OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN A SAFETY NET BUT THESE PROGRAMS HAVE FAILED IN THAT MISSION THEY HAVE NOT ALLEVIATED POVERTY THEY HAVE NOT IN FACT THEY'VE DEEPENED IT RATHER THAN ALLEVIATED IT HOUSING VOUCHERS IN MY VIEW WOULD ENABLE POOR AMERICANS TO CHOOSE WHERE THEY'D LIKE TO LIVE JUST LIKE WE DO HOUSING SECRETARY HENRY CISNEROS ISSUED A STATEMENT RESPONDED FOR THE ADMINISTRATION I THINK THIS IS SORT OF SHOOT FROM THE HIP SPEECH MAKING IN A BOMBASTIC POLITICAL YEAR BUT NOT A WAY TO MAKE HOUSING POLICY THAT REALLY WORKS FOR PEOPLE OR THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE FACTS OF WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED THE REST OF DOLE'S DAY REFLECTED HIS DOUBLE JOB THESE DAYS SENATE LEADER AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HE MET WITH ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER SHIMON PERES SOMETHING A CANDIDATE OR A SENATE LEADER MIGHT DO MET WITH THE LEADING JEWISH LOBBYING ORGANIZATION AND ON THE SENATE FLOOR ATTACKED THE ADMINISTRATION OVER THE TRADE DEFICIT WITH JAPAN AND CRIME BUT IT'S IN THESE ISSUE SPEECHES THAT DOLE SEEMS TO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT HIS DIFFERENCES WITH THE PRESIDENT TODAY'S ON HOUSING WAS THE SECOND THE FIRST STEP WAS CRIME AND PERMISSIVE JUDGES MORE ARE ON THE WAY BRUCE MORTON C. N. N. WASHINGTON UNDER SOME POLITICAL FIRE FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH TO FIGHT THE WAR ON DRUGS PRESIDENT CLINTON IS OFFERING A NEW BATTLE PLAN MR. CLINTON IS ASKING CONGRESS FOR NEARLY TEN PERCENT MORE MONEY TO CARRY IT OUT THE PRESIDENT'S CALL IS FOR A BI PARTISAN EFFORT BUT THEN THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR JILL DOUGHERTY IS TRAVELING WITH THE PRESIDENT AND SHE IS IN CORAL GABLES FLORIDA JILL CORRESPONDENT GENE PRESIDENT CLINTON CAME HERE TO MIAMI TODAY TO ANNOUNCE HIS NEW DRUG CONTROL STRATEGY BUT IT WAS ALSO A POLITICAL TRICK AND JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO AT A D. N. C. FUNDRAISER HE KEPT UP THE DRUM BEAT HE'S BEEN TAPPING OUT ALL WEEK LONG FOR REPUBLICANS TO JOIN HIM IN WORKING OUT A BALANCED BUDGET THE QUESTION IS WILL WE THE ANSWER IS DEPENDS UPON WHETHER THE MAJORITY IN CONGRESS DECIDES TO PLAY POLITICS A LONG TIME BEFORE THE NOVEMBER ELECTION OR WILL GO BACK AND WORK WITH ME IN GOOD FAITH TO PASS THE RIGHT SORT OF BALANCED BUDGET PLAN FOR AMERICA THAT'S WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO THERE'S PLENTY OF TIME FOR THE ELECTIONS AFTER THE CONVENTIONS THIS SUMMER LET'S GO BACK TO WORK AND GIVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE BALANCED BUDGET PLAN THEY DESERVE BUT HIS MAIN MESSAGE HERE IN FLORIDA WAS FIGHTING DRUGS A SUBJECT THAT'S ALSO BECOME VERY MUCH A POLITICAL ISSUE RETURNING TO THE CRUCIAL ELECTORAL STATE OF FLORIDA PRESIDENT CLINTON USED THE BACKDROP OF A MIAMI AREA MIDDLE SCHOOL TO ANNOUNCE A NEW DRUG CONTROL STRATEGY AIMED PRIMARILY AT YOUNG PEOPLE THE MOST PERPLEXING PROBLEM THAT WE FACE IN THIS AREA IS THIS WHILE THE DRUG RATE HAS GONE DOWN DRUG USAGE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP WHILE THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE DOWN RANDOM VIOLENCE AMONG PEOPLE UNDER EIGHTEEN HAS GONE UP THE CHILDREN WHO ARE HERE TODAY ARE THE BATTLEGROUND OF TODAY AND TOMORROW BUT THE PRESIDENT HARDLY HAD A CHANCE TO SHAKE SOME HANDS BEFORE FLORIDA REPUBLICANS GREETED HIM WITH AN AD IN THE MIAMI HERALD PURPORTEDLY OFFERING A FEDERAL JUDGESHIP FOR SALE RIDICULING CLINTON NOMINEE FOR U. S. APPEALS COURT CHARLES BUD STACK A FLORIDA LAWYER AND DEMOCRATIC ACTIVIST THE G. O. P. CLAIMS HIS SOLE QUALIFICATION IS HIS FUNDRAISING ABILITY THE WHITE HOUSE INSISTS STACK IS QUALIFIED AND IT'S FIRING BACK CITING A WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE IN WHICH SENATOR DOLE'S CRITICISM OF ANOTHER CLINTON APPOINTED JUDGE APPARENTLY BACKFIRED THE JUDGE WAS TRYING TO KEEP A CHRONIC SEX OFFENDER IN PRISON MEANWHILE BACK IN WASHINGTON REPUBLICANS DISMISSED THE PRESIDENT'S NEW DRUG CONTROL POLICY FOR THREE YEARS WHERE HAS HIS LEADERSHIP BEEN IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY VACANT IT'S BEEN SILENT IT HASN'T EXISTED IT'S SURRENDERED AND NOW WE HAVE AN ELECTION AND I THINK A POLLSTER INFORMED THE PRESIDENT HEY THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE AND DRUG USE IS UP AMONGST TEENAGERS AND SO FINALLY WE HAVE THIS SPEECH BUT THERE'S ONE CONSOLATION FOR THE PRESIDENT FLORIDA ONCE LOOKED LIKE A LOST CAUSE FOR THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN NOW HE'S MAKING INROADS INTO REPUBLICAN LEADS THE PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE FOR THE U. S. APPEALS COURT BUD STACK DID NOT SOW UP FOR TONIGHT'S FUNDRAISER BUT IT WAS A SUCCESS ANYWAY AT THIS FUNDRAISER AND AT ANOTHER PRIVATE RECEPTION THAT WILL BE BEGINNING SHORTLY HE EXPECTS TO FILL DEMOCRATIC COFFERS WITH A TOTAL OF THREE MILLION DOLLARS GENE THANK YOU JILL SPECULATION ROSS PEROT MIGHT RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN THIS YEAR HAS BEEN FUELED BY PEROT'S CREATION OF A NEW POLITICAL PARTY AS WELL BY HINTS DROPPED BY PEROT HIMSELF EARLIER TODAY I TALKED WITH POLLSTER GORDON BLACK WHO DID SURVEYS FOR PEROT IN NINETEEN NINETY TWO HE HAS A NEW POLL ON THIRD PARTY ENTHUSIASM I BEGAN BY ASKING BLACK HOW BIG IS THE MARKET FOR A THIRD PARTY WELL OUR ESTIMATE OF THE MINIMUM SIZE OF THE PEOPLE WOULD BE REALLY WILLING TO DEFECT FROM THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM IS ROUGHLY ABOUT TWENTY TWO PERCENT OF THE VOTERS RIGHT NOW AND THAT'S REMAINED CONSTANT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS IF YOU PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE AND SUBTRACT SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS WOULD BE LARGER BUT BOTH OF THEM IN FACT WOULD STILL BE IN THE TWENTY PERCENTILE BRACKET AT ITS SIMPLEST LEVEL WHY ARE PEOPLE TELLING YOU THERE'S A NEED FOR A THIRD PARTY I THINK THE SIMPLEST LEVEL IS THAT THE VOTER HAS BECOME SUCCESSIVELY ALIENATED OVER THE PAST THIRTY YEARS THE HARRIS ALIENATION INDEX INDICATES THAT ROUGHLY TWO OF EVERY THREE VOTERS ARE ALIENATED THE PRIMARY ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS IS THE SENSE OF DISEMPOWERMENT FROM THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES APPEAR TO HAVE GONE OUT TO THE EXTREMES THE REPUBLICANS OUT ON THE RIGHT AND THE DEMOCRATS OUT ON THE LEFT AND IT'S LEFT THE BULK OF THE VOTERS WHICH MOST AMERICANS ARE THE MODERATES WITHOUT A POLITICAL PARTY TODAY FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF AMERICANS THE TERM THIRD PARTY HAS BEEN SYNONYMOUS FOR QUITE A WHILE WITH ROSS PEROT NOW WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THAT NUMBER HAS IT GROWN OR HAS IT GOTTEN SMALLER WELL ROSS PEROT'S VOTE SINCE THE FIRST OF THE YEAR HAS DROPPED FROM WHAT WAS RIGHT AROUND THE TWENTY MARK DOWN TO ABOUT THE FIFTEEN MARK IT DEPENDS ON WHICH SURVEY YOU DO THE LOW IS FOURTEEN PERCENT THE HIGH IS ABOUT EIGHTEEN PERCENT THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD JUMP SHIP TO A THIRD PARTY IS ABOUT TWENTY TWO PERCENT BUT THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY WOULD CONSIDER PEROT IS AT ABOUT TWENTY SIX PERCENT SO RIGHT NOW PEROT IS ACTUALLY WEAKER IN SOME RESPECTS THAT THE THIRD PARTY MOVEMENT ITSELF AND HOW ABOUT THIS DEBATE OVER EXACTLY WHICH CANDIDATE BOB DOLE OR BILL CLINTON WOULD BE MOST AFFECTED NEGATIVELY BY A THIRD PARTY CANDIDACY WHERE DO YOU FALL ON THAT WHAT ARE YOUR NUMBERS TELLING YOU WELL RIGHT NOW OUR NUMBERS SAY THAT BY ABOUT A FIFTEEN POINT MARGIN THE VOTERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY VOTING FOR PEROT WOULD SUPPORT CLINTON OVER DOLE SO EFFECTIVELY PEROT IS PULLING VOTES FROM CLINTON AT A HIGHER RATE THAN FROM DOLE HOWEVER WHEN WE LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF THE PEOPLE IN BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES WHO WOULD LIKE TO DEFECT IT TURNS OUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY EQUAL FROM BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES THE RATE OF DEFECTION SO WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST OVER THE PAST TWO OR THREE MONTHS IS PEROT'S GOTTEN WEAKER AMONG COLLEGE EDUCATED PEOPLE THAT MEANS THAT THOSE ARE REPUBLICANS ON THE WHOLE GOING BACK TO DOLE AND IT LOOKS LIKE HE NOW HELPS DOLE OVER CLINTON IN EFFECT BECAUSE HE'S PULLING FEWER FROM DOLE THAN FROM CLINTON MR. BLACK IF THERE HAS BEEN STABILITY IN THE COLUMN OF NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL A THIRD PARTY IS REQUIRED ARE WE AT ALL CLOSE TO THE CRITICAL MASS IT WOULD TAKE TO ELECT A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE AS PRESIDENT WELL I THINK WE ARE BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S THERE'S A CHICKEN AND EGG QUESTION IN ALL OF THIS YOU KNOW YOU CAN HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE WILLING TO VOTE FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE IN FACT IN ONE OF OUR QUESTIONS IT'S SIXTY ONE PERCENT SAY THEY'RE WILLING TO VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE OF A THIRD PARTY IF IN FACT THAT CANDIDATE WOULD REPRESENT THEIR POINT OF VIEW OVER THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ENTITY OUT THERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO RUN FOR OFFICE AND HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMMUNICATE AND THAT'S NOT IN PLACE YET THAT'S WHAT REALLY PEROT'S BEEN TRYING TO CREATE FOR THE LAST YEAR AND IS GOING TO CONTINUE APPARENTLY ON AND UNTIL THAT'S IN PLACE YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER THE VOTERS BUT IT'S CLEARLY THE CASE THAT THERE IS A MARKET THAT EVENTUALLY EITHER THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR COULD ELECT SOMEBODY TO A SIGNIFICANT OFFICE WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR EITHER OF THE MAJOR PARTIES TO CO OPT THIS THIRD PARTY MOMENTUM WELL PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE INABILITY OF THE TWO PARTIES TO GO BACK TO THE CENTER IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS LARGELY A CAPTIVE BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS OF THE CHRISTIAN COALITION THE SOCIAL RIGHT THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE COMMITED TO VERY CONSERVATIVE SOCIAL POSITIONS AND ITS CANDIDATES FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY TO MOVE BACK TO THE CENTER THE SAME THING IS TRUE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IT'S GOT ITS URBAN BLACK COALITION IT HAS THE WELFARE COALITION THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS WHO PULL IT TO THE LEFT MR. BLACK YOUR NUMBERS MAKE FOR FASCINATING READING THANKS VERY MUCH THANK YOU VERY MUCH IT WAS JUST OVER TWO MONTHS AGO THAT ALL POLITICAL EYES WERE TURNED ON NEW HAMPSHIRE NOW THERE ARE RUMBLINGS THE GRANITE STATE MAY BE TOPPLED FROM ITS FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY PERCH HERE IS NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT MARC WATTS APRIL IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THE SNOW HAS MELTED AND GIVEN NEW LIFE TO THE RIVERS AND IT'S A NEW SEASON ON MORE WAYS THAN ONE WINTER IS GONE AND THE POLITICAL SEASON IS A FADING MEMORY THE TOWN OF MILFORD THE NIGHT BEFORE THE FEBRUARY ELECTION JUST A MEMORY LINGERS TODAY IN THE TOWN SQUARE AND IN THE HAMLET KNOWN AS CENTER BARNSTEAD THE RUMBLE IN THE LUMBER YARD JUST A MEMORY NOW TOO SOME PEOPLE MISS IT OH YEAH ABSOLUTELY IT PUTS US ON THE MAP I MEAN OTHERWISE PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT US THAT WE'RE HERE DO NOT WAIT FOR ORDERS FROM HEADQUARTERS MOUNT UP EVERYBODY AND RIDE TO THE SOUND OF THE GUNS THE MAN WHO SOUNDED THAT BATTLE CRY RODE OUT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE A BIG WINNER BUT PAT BUCHANAN WAS EVENTUALLY TOPPLED BY BOB DOLE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER RACKED UP ENOUGH DELEGATES BY THE END OF MARCH TO CAPTURE THE G. O. P. NOMINATION BUT WITH THAT BATTLE OVER THE NOMINATING PROCESS HAS BEEN UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK A COMPRESSED PRIMARY SEASON THAT CRITICS SAY FAILED BECAUSE MANY VOTERS DID NOT GET TO PLAY A PART THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE HAS SET UP A TASK FORCE AND SECRETARIES OF STATE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE'S BILL GARDNER WILL CONVENE NEXT MONTH IN WASHINGTON TO DISCUSS THE PROCESS WE MAY COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT IS A CONSENSUS RECOMMENDATION AND IF THEY DO THEN WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THAT TO THE PARTY NEW HAMPSHIRE'S FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY STATUS WILL CERTAINLY BE DISCUSSED AND PEOPLE HERE WILL FIGHT TO KEEP THEIR TITLE SO THIS IS A GOOD STATE TO START OFF IN BECAUSE IT IS A WILLING RECEPTIVE ACTIVE ENERGIZED CONSTITUENCY OF VOTERS SIT DOWN WITH VOTERS AT BLAKE'S RESTAURANT IN MANCHESTER A CANDIDATE'S STOP DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND YOU FIND OUT PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING POLITICS WELL CLINTON HAS GOT MY VOTE I BELIEVE THAT HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO DO WHAT HE SAYS AND I THINK WE NEED A CHANGE AS FOR DOLE MANY HERE LIKE HIS EXPERIENCE AND CHARACTER BUT PEOPLE STILL HAVE QUESTIONS SOME THINK HE IS SHORT ON MESSAGE DOLE HERE NEEDED TO CONVINCE VOTERS THAT HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS TESTED LEADERSHIP WAS GOING TO BE DIRECTED AT SOMETHING THAT HE ARTICULATED AND I THINK THE SKEPTICISM ABOUT DOLE IN THIS STATE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME TO CHANGE PERCEPTIONS VOTERS HERE ARE LARGELY CONCERNED ABOUT ECONOMIC ISSUES AND THEY CAN'T BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED AS THEY PROVED TWO MONTHS AGO IN THE PRIMARY THEY HAVE PLENTY OF ABILITY TO SURPRISE MARC WATTS C. N. N. BEDFORD NEW HAMPSHIRE TED TURNER AND BRIAN ROBERTS TONIGHT CABLE ON THE CUTTING EDGE JOIN TOM BROKAW AND TED TURNER FROM CABLE TELEVISIONS BIGGEST SHOW IT'S ALL AHEAD ON LARRY KING LIVE NOW LIVE FROM LOS ANGELES HERE IS LARRY KING GOOD EVENING FROM THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION CONVENTION IN LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF LARRY KING LIVE WE HAVE AN OUTSTANDING GROUP OF GUESTS WE WILL START WITH TED TURNER THE PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF TURNER BROADCASTING MR. TURNER WILL BE THE INCOMING CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION WE'RE JOINED ALSO BY BRIAN ROBERTS PRESIDENT OF COMCAST CORPORATION AND HE IS THE OUTGOING CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION IS IT THAT OLDER PEOPLE REPLACE YOU IS THAT THE WAY IT WORKS BRIAN I GUESS SO ALL RIGHT WHY ISN'T IT STRANGE HAVING SOMEONE FROM THE INDUSTRY IN PROGRAMMING BECOME CHAIRMAN WELL IT'S THE FIRST TIME IT'S EVER HAPPENED LARRY WHEN WHEN I FIRST GOT INTO THE INDUSTRY THERE WERE HARDLY ANY PROGRAMMERS AND THEY WEREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO BE MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIATION IT WAS KIND OF LIKE INTEGRATION IN THE SOUTH WE HAD TO WORK OUR WAY IN AFTER A LONG PERIOD OF YEARS AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE IN YOUR POSITION WHO HAVE REACHED THE HEIGHTS YOU'VE REACHED DON'T WANT TO BE CHAIRMAN BECAUSE IT IS TOO MUCH EXTRA WORK AND YOU'VE GOT TOO MANY THINGS ON YOUR MIND IT'S NOT THAT MUCH EXTRA WORK WE'VE GOT A GOOD PAID STAFF OF NINETY PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON AND THEY DO MOST OF THE WORK IT'S KIND OF AN HONORARY THING OH YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK HARD WELL YOU HAVE TO DO WORK WHAT TEN OR FIFTEEN DAYS A YEAR THAT YEAR TOPS THAT SHOULD BE IT TURNER FOR YOU IT'S AN EASIER JOB THAN IT WAS FOR ME OH HO HO BUT IT'S MAINLY JUST AN HONORARY THING YOU KNOW WE WE HAVE A PAID PRESIDENT THAT DOES A GREAT JOB AND DECKER HENSTRA DECKER RIGHT AND EVERY YEAR THEY TAKE SOMEBODY FROM THE INDUSTRY AND MAKE THEM LIKE HONORARY CHAIRMAN IS IT BASICALLY LOBBYING BRIAN WELL OBVIOUSLY THE GOAL OF N. C. T. A. IS TO TRY TO NOT ONLY PUT ON THIS CONVENTION WHICH HAS TWENTY SIX THOUSAND PEOPLE AND ALL SORTS OF TECHNOLOGIES AND PROGRAMMERS BUT ALSO TO TELL OUR STORY ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND PRIMARILY IN WASHINGTON AND THIS YEAR WE GOT THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS LAW PASSED AND CABLE HAD A LITTLE PART TO PLAY IN MAKING SURE WE WERE ALLOWED TO BECOME A TELEPHONE COMPANY AND A COMPUTER COMPANY SO THEY DO A GREAT JOB THE VICE PRESIDENT ADDRESSED THEM TODAY WAS HIS SPEECH RECEIVED FAVORABLY ABSOLUTELY HE WAS HE WAS VERY FUNNY FOR PART OF HIS SPEECH AND THEN HE WAS VERY SERIOUS AND IMPARTED A GREAT DEAL OF WISDOM TO US WOULD YOU SAY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE CABLE INDUSTRY I'D SAY THEY ARE SUPPORTIVE OF DEREGULATION OF THE TELECOMMUNICATION INDUSTRY TRYING TO ENCOURAGE MORE COMPETITION WITH CABLE T. V. EAND IN COMPUTER AND AND ALSO TELEPHONE SO IS THERE AREAS WHERE THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTIVE BRIAN WELL THIS PARTICULAR YEAR WORKED OUT GREAT BECAUSE IT WAS BIPARTISAN AND YOU KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF POLITICS THIS YEAR WITH THE ELECTION OF COURSE AND WE WERE LUCKY THIS IS JUST SUCH A VITAL PART OF THE U. S. ECONOMY THAT WE GOT A TOTAL COMMUNICATIONS BILL AS TED IS SAYING WITH DEREGULATION AND SO YOU'D SAY YOU WOULD GIVE HIM A PLUS I WOULD GIVE HIM A PLUS WHEN YOU STARTED IN THIS SO MANY YEARS AGO DID YOU EVER ENVISION SOMETHING LIKE THIS TWENTY SIX THOUSAND PEOPLE EIGHT HUNDRED NETWORKS TED TURNER LARRY IT WAS SO LONG AGO THAT TO TRY TO REMEMBER LET'S GO BACK IT'S HARD TO REMEMBER EXACTLY I ENVISIONED THAT IT WAS GOING TO GET BIGGER BUT I DON'T GUESS I REALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD GET THIS BIG DID YOU EVER THINK IT WOULD GET THIS BIG WELL MY FATHER WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CABLE OPERATORS TO CARRY ONE OF TED'S CHANNELS AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ENVISIONED IT COULD BE THIS EXCITING AND NOW WE'RE INTO NEW FRONTIERS WITH THE COMPUTERS AND TELEPHONES AND MORE CHANNELS AND INTERNATIONAL IT'S IT'S FABULOUS A FUN BUSINESS HOW ABOUT THE COMPETITION THERE'S A LOT OF THEM YOU KNOW I THINK THERE'S OVER ONE HUNDRED CHANNELS OUT THERE AND THAT'S A LOT BUT YOU KNOW WE'RE KIND OF THE ONES THAT STARTED IT SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SEW THE WIND YOU REAP THE WHIRLWIND BUT IT'S IT'S PRETTY IT'S EXCITING THERE ARE A LOT OF CHOICES FOR PEOPLE ACTUALLY IT'S KIND OF THE MORE THE MERRIER ISN'T IT WHY NOT WELL WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE MAKING MORE CHANNELS TOO BUT WE USED TO HAVE THERE USED TO BE ONE PAY CHANNEL HOME BOX OFFICE AND ONE BASIC CHANNEL T. B. S. THERE WERE ONLY TWO TWO CHANNELS ON THE SATELLITE AND NOW THERE ARE ONE HUNDRED SO WHEN WE USED TO WE USED TO HAVE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SHARE OF THE OF THE VIEWING TO BASIC CABLE WITH T. B. S. AND AND AND NOW WE'RE SHARING IT WITH ONE HUNDRED CHANNELS BUT WE GOT ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE OF THEM LET'S ASK ABOUT SOME INDIVIDUAL THINGS WHAT'S WHAT'S WITH COMCAST YOU BUY THE SPECTRUM YOU BUY THE SEVENTY SIX ERS YOU BUY THE FLYERS WHY WELL WE SEE REALLY A PAGE OUT OF TED'S BOOK WHICH IS THAT LOCAL SPORTS IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PROGRAMMING THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY DUPLICATE I MEAN YOU HAVE A UNIQUE WONDERFUL FRANCHISE IN OUR MOST IMPORTANT MARKET THE PHILADELPHIA AREA WE HAVE A CELLULAR COMPANY THERE A LOT OF THE CABLE SYSTEMS THIS IS THREE HUNDRED FIFTY EVENTS IT'S PROGRAMMING CONTENT AND AS WE SEE THE WORLD GETTING MORE COMPETITIVE WE SEE THE OPPORTUNITY TO START NEW CHANNELS WE JUST MADE A DEAL WITH THE PHILLIES WHERE WE ARE GOING TO PULL ALL OF OUR TELEVISION RIGHTS START OUT OWN CABLE CHANNEL IT WILL BE LOCAL SPORTS LOCAL SPORTS NEWS SHOWS HOPEFULLY LIKE THIS MAYBE YOU WILL COME VISIT US SOMETIME AND FOR THE PHILADELPHIA AREA IT COULD BE ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR SHOWS WAS THAT A GOOD MOVE THEM GETTING INTO SPORTS AS A VETERAN OF THIS THE BRAVES THE HAWKS I THINK SO WELL WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR TWENTY YEARS SO YOU KNOW I JUST IS IT A GOOD BUSINESS SPORTS NUMBER NO BY ITSELF IT'S NOT A GOOD BUSINESS YOU MADE HIM FEEL VERY GOOD NO BY ITSELF IT'S NOT A GOOD BUSINESS BUT IF YOU HAVE THE CABLE SYSTEM OR THE NETWORK ON YOUR END AARON BOGDEN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS IN THE COMMUNITY IT IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAN JUST AS A STAND ALONE IN OTHER WORDS YOU SHOULD BE IN TELEVISION AND ALIGNED BUSINESSES RIGHT WE NOTED RATHER THAN JUST SPORTS WHEN WHEN THE GARDEN AND THE KNICKS AND THE RANGERS WERE SOLD IT WAS SOLD WITH MADISON SQUARE GARDEN NETWORK AND IT WENT FOR ONE BILLION DOLLARS YEAH WE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT THE TELEVISION CLEARLY I AGREE THAT THE SPORTS PART OF IT HAS GOT LOTS OF COMPLICATED ISSUES BUT IN OUR CASE WITH ALL OF THESE OTHER PIECES IT ALLOWS YOU TO START ALL SORTS OF NEW CHANNELS AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND DO STILL TO COME TOM BROKAW WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK WITH TED TURNER BRIAN ROBERTS AND WE WILL TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE FOR TWO OF THE GIANTS IN AMERICAN CABLE SHOW BIZ WE'RE BACK LIVE AT THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION CONVENTION IN LOS ANGELES WE WILL TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE FOLKS IN THE AUDIENCE HERE WE'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE STANDING AROUND AND LIMITED SEATING THERE ARE TWENTY SIX THOUSAND PEOPLE ATTENDING THIS CONVENTION OUR GUESTS ARE TED TURNER AND BRIAN ROBERTS BRIAN WILL BE LEAVING US IN ABOUT EIGHT MINUTES AND THEN TOM BROKAW WILL JOIN US WE WILL HAVE TOM AND TED TOGETHER FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AND THEN MR. BROKAW WHEN MR. BROKAW AND MR. TURNER ARE ON WE WILL ALSO HAVE AN INTERPRETER IS THAT OKAY WHAT OKAY QUESTION THE GENTLEMAN THERE DON'T LEAVE THE GENTLEMAN THERE TED FIRST OF ALL CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR UPCOMING CHAIRMANSHIP OF N. C. T. A. BACK IN NINETEEN EIGHTY ONE YOU LAUNCHED A CABLE NEWS NETWORK ALL OF YOUR FORECASTS AND PREDICTIONS HAVE BEEN EXACTLY TRUE AND ACTUALLY IN SOME CASES YOU ARE AHEAD OF YOUR TIME NOW MY QUESTION TO YOU IS SIR WHERE ARE WE GOING TO BE IN THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND FIVE NINE YEARS FROM NOW I DON'T THINK WE'VE WE'VE CHOSEN A SELECTION THE SITE FOR THE CONVENTION IN TWO THOUSAND FIVE YET SO I CAN'T I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHERE WE WILL BE BUT HOPEFULLY WE WILL ALL STILL BE ALIVE AND THAT AND WE WON'T HAVE A BIG DEPRESSION OR SOMETHING I DON'T THINK HE MEANS THAT THOUGH I DON'T KNOW I MEAN THERE'S GOING TO BE I DON'T KNOW I MEAN IT'S I THINK I DON'T I REALLY DON'T KNOW I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE EXCITING YOU KNOW IF WE KNEW WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF LIVING THE NEXT TEN YEARS LET'S WAIT AND SEE HOW IT HOW IT DEVELOPS ARE YOU SAYING IT'S NOT FORECASTABLE WELL DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE THOSE EIGHT BALLS THAT YOU SHOOK AND TURNED OVER AND THEN IT SAYS REPLY HAZY ASK AGAIN LATER THE LADY YOU ARE BOTH MENTIONED AS TWO OF THE GIANTS IN CABLE BUT YOU BOTH STARTED OFF PRETTY ENTREPRENEURIAL WHERE DO YOU SEE ENTREPRENEURS IN THE INDUSTRY IN THE FUTURE AS IT BECOMES MORE AND MORE COMPETITIVE AND THERE ARE BIGGER AND BETTER MONOLITHS COMING GOOD QUESTION BRIAN ENTREPRENEURS IN THE FUTURE I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AS YOU SEE ALL OF THESE BIG MERGERS INCLUDING TED AND TIME WARNER BUT BELL ATLANTIC NYNEX PAC BELL SOUTHWESTERN BELL IT RAISES THAT QUESTION BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT I. B. M. WAS PRETTY BIG AND ALONG CAME MICROSOFT ENTREPRENEURS ARE THE ENGINE OF THIS COUNTRY AND I THINK THAT NO MATTER HOW BIG SOME OF THESE COMPANIES GET THERE IS DEFINITELY A CRITICAL RELA ADD TO JOBS THEY DON'T CUT THE JOBS BUT THERE'S STILL ROOM OUT THERE A DREAMER CAN STILL MAKE IT THERE'LL BE THERE'LL BE THERE'LL BE PLACES FOR PEOPLE WITH GOOD IDEAS BY MEN WHO WANT TO WORK HARD TO BE REAL SUCCESSFUL TIME WARNER AND YOU WHEN IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN YOU KNOW AS SOON AS THE GOVERNMENT SUBMITS THE OKAY DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT NAH THEY'RE GRUMBLING ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT BUT YOU HAVE NO DOUBT THAT IT WILL GO THROUGH ABSOLUTELY YOU ARE ON THE BOARD OF TURNER AREN'T YOU YES I AM DO YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT IT I THINK IN THE END IT WILL HAPPEN DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE GOOD FOR THE INDUSTRY I THINK IT CERTAINLY IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR CABLE IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE TIME WARNER HAS A LOT OF CABLE SYSTEMS NOW THEY WILL HAVE A LOT OF PROGRAMMING PUT THE TWO TOGETHER I THINK IT HELPS FIGURE OUT HOW WE GO WHERE DO WE GO NEXT FOR THE NEXT FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS THE MAIN THING IS DOES THE PUBLIC BENEFIT WELL I THINK SO AND AND AND YOU KNOW IT WILL ALLOW US TO STAY STAY BY BUT WE'RE VERY VERY SMALL WHEN YOU'RE COMPETING WITH LIKE GENERAL ELECTRIC ARE YOU GOING TO BE TWT THEY ARE TEN TO FIFTEEN TIMES BIGGER THAN US IS IT GOING TO BE TIME WARNER TURNER THAT'S RIGHT NOW IT'S TIME WARNER I KNOW BUT WHEN IT'S MERGED WELL THAT'S WHAT I DON'T KNOW HOW ABOUT TURNER WARNER TIME ASK DURING THE BIDDING YEAH WELL FAT CHANCE TURNER WARNER TIME THE GENTLEMAN THERE ARE OVER ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT BENEFIT FROM CLOSED CAPTIONING INCLUDING THIRTY MILLION HARD OF HEARING AND DEAF PEOPLE WHY ISN'T THE CABLE INDUSTRY DOING MORE FOR CAPTIONING WHOA LISTEN I AM ONE OF THOSE ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE I CAN'T HEAR WOULD YOU PLEASE REPEAT YOUR QUESTION WHAT DID YOU SAY NO I GOT IT I GOT IT NUMBER I I USE CLOSED CAPTIONING AND C. N. N. AND HEADLINE NEWS ARE CLOSED CAPTIONED MOST OF OUR PROGRAMMING IS CLOSED CAPTIONED MOST OF OUR PROGRAMMING IS CLOSED CAPTIONED AND MORE OF IT IS BEING CLOSED CAPTIONED ALL THE TIME BRIAN I THINK AS WE GET MORE DIGITAL BOXES AND DEVICES IN T. V.'S IT'S GOING TO BE A SERVICE WIDELY AVAILABLE DO YOU AGREE WITH THE GENTLEMAN SHOULD THE WHOLE INDUSTRY BE CAPTIONED I THINK BUT LISTEN I MEAN IT FOR A NETWORK THAT DOESN'T HAVE CLOSED CAPTIONING PEOPLE THAT ARE HEARING IMPAIRED LIKE THE TWO OF US WE CAN'T YOU KNOW WE CAN'T WATCH THE PROGRAM WE CAN READ LIPS A LITTLE BIT BUT BUT SO NETWORKS THAT DON'T HAVE CLOSED CAPTIONING ARE GOING TO LOSE VIEWERS BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF US THAT CAN'T HEAR VERY WELL WE WILL BE BACK WITH SOME MORE MOMENTS WITH BRIAN ROBERTS AND TED TURNER AND THEN TOM BROKAW WILL JOIN US THIS IS LARRY KING LIVE IN LOS ANGELES AT THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION CONVENTION WITH THE INCOMING TED WILL BE CHAIRMAN AS OF WEDNESDAY BRIAN'S LAST DAY AS CHAIRMAN WILL BE WEDNESDAY AH AH AH EVERYBODY SAY AH AH WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK DON'T GO AWAY WE'RE BACK WITH BRIAN ROBERTS THE PRESIDENT OF COMCAST THE OUTGOING CHAIRMAN OF THE N. C. T. A. AND TED TURNER PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF TURNER BROADCASTING THE INCOMING CHAIRMAN OF COMCAST WE WILL SPEND A FEW MORE MINUTES WITH BRIAN AND THEN NO I'M NOT TOM BROKAW WILL BE JOINING US WE WILL HAVE TOM AND TED TOGETHER AND THEN FOR THE FINAL HALF HOUR TOM WILL BE WITH US ALONE CONCERNING SOME THINGS INDIVIDUALLY YOU OWN A LOT OF Q. V. C. RIGHT YES WE HAVE OVER HOW SUCCESSFUL IS SHOPPING AT HOME IT'S AN AMAZING GROWING BUSINESS ELECTRONIC RETAILING WE DID SEVENTY MILLION PHONE CALLS LAST YEAR FIFTY MILLION PACKAGES SHIPPED ONE POINT SIX BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF MERCHANDISE AND IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS IT'S MAYBE A THIRD JEWELRY BUT FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF SPORTS MERCHANDISING WHEN THE SUPER BOWL ENDED WE HAD THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND OF THE WINNING TEAM'S JERSEYS AND HATS WITHIN AN HOUR SOLD WE HAVE BEEN SELLING ALL SORTS OF MERCHANDISE YOU DON'T LIKE IT SEND IT BACK IT'S A FABULOUS BUSINESS GREW TWENTY FIVE PERCENT LAST YEAR AND IT LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER GREAT YEAR THIS YEAR WE'RE DELIGHTED AND THE RIVAL NETWORK IS COMING MR. MURDOCH HAS BEEN THE LOUDEST SAYING THAT HE'S GOING TO TAKE ON C. N. N. C. N. N. IS TOO LIBERAL AND THE LIKE YOUR RESPONSE WE WILL SEE HIM WHEN HE GETS HERE YOU'RE NOT YOU DON'T SOUND WORRIED WELL WHAT'S WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ACT REAL NERVOUS YOU KNOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT UP A GOOD FRONT IN AMERICA WELL DO YOU THINK WE NEED FOUR ALL NEWS NETWORKS WELL NOBODY THINKS WE NEED THAT BUT WHY IS EVERYBODY GOING INTO IT BECAUSE THEY THEY THEY SEE WE'RE DOING WELL AND THEY WANT TO COPY US SIMPLE AS THAT RIGHT THE FUTURE OF CABLE I THINK WHAT'S EXCITING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF CABLE IS THAT YOU TAKE THIS NETWORK AND YOU ATTACH IT TO A COMPUTER OR YOU ATTACH IT TO A TELEVISION AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A WHOLE OTHER LEAP FORWARD WHEN WE GO DIGITAL AND WHAT IS EXCITING ABOUT THE CONVENTION WHAT I HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IS THAT THERE IS A NEW MEDIUM BEING CREATED WHEN YOU HAVE THIS WHOLE INTERACTIVE DIGITAL WORLD AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED IT HASN'T GOTTEN HERE QUICK ENOUGH BUT ONCE THEY PLAY WITH IT'S THEY SAY WHEN CAN I GET IT IN MY HOUSE IT'S GREAT AND THAT'S THAT'S WHAT IS EXCITING ABOUT THE BUSINESS WHEN DO YOU TURN THE GAVEL OVER TO TED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BUT WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON THE BOARD IF HE IS ELECTED AS HE WILL BE AND IT'S IT REALLY IS AN HONOR FOR THE FIRST PROGRAMMER IT SHOWS HOW FAR THE INDUSTRY IS WORKING WELL TOGETHER AND THAT'S PART OF WHY IT'S EXCITING FOR TED AND WE'RE GOING TO WIND UP THAT SESSION WITH GERALD LEVIN YES WE'RE DOING ALL RIGHT A LARRY KING LIVE FOR THE CONVECTION ONLY ALL RIGHT YOU SIT A FEW MINUTES BRIAN THANK YOU LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET'S HEAR IT FOR BRIAN ROBERTS PRESIDENT OF COMCAST OUTGOING CHAIRMAN WHEN WE COME BACK A FIRST A TELEVISION FIRST BROKAW AND TURNER TOGETHER THIS COULD BE BIG DON'T GO AWAY WE'RE BACK AT THE NATIONAL CABLE TELEVISION ASSOCIATION CONVENTION AND JOINING TED TURNER THE PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF TURNER BROADCASTING AND THE INCOMING CHAIRMAN OF THE N. C. T. A. IS THE FAMED TOM BROKAW THE HOST OF N. B. C. NIGHTLY NEWS THIS MONTH HE CELEBRATES HIS THIRTIETH ANNIVERSARY WITH N. B. C. WHAT A WAY TO WIND UP HIS FINAL YEAR AT THAT NETWORK ONLY KIDDING TROUBLE MAKER TROUBLE MAKER BUT WE ALSO WANT TO PROVE TO YOU THAT NOT ALL IN MONTANA HAS GONE WHACKED BOTH THESE MEN LIVE IN MONTANA THAT'S RIGHT ALL RIGHT TED THERE ARE RUMORS CIRCULATING THAT YOU ARE AFTER BROKAW YES FOR FISHING YEAH WE GO FLY FISHING EVERY YEAR YOU WOULD LIKE YOU WOULD IN OTHER WORDS IF TOM WERE AVAILABLE YOU WOULD TAKE HIM WELL IF WE COULD CUT A DEAL ALL RIGHT THERE WERE STORIES THERE WERE STORIES TODAY IN THE PAPER TOM JOHNSON THE PRESIDENT OF C. N. N. A VERY CLOSE FRIEND OF YOURS WHAT A PAL WHAT WHAT GIVE US A STATEMENT WELL HE'S AN OLD FRIEND AND TED IS A NEW FRIEND AND A GREAT FISHING PAL AND I'VE BEEN A BIG FAN OF C. N. N. FOR A LONG TIME BUT I AM HERE BECAUSE N. B. C. AND MSNBC ARE GETTING READY TO LAUNCH THIS NEW ENTERPRISE AND IT'S GOING TO BE GREAT FOR EVERYBODY AND I'VE BEEN AT THIS COMPANY N. B. C. FOR THIRTY YEARS THEY'VE BEEN VERY GOOD TO ME I'M VERY FLATTERED I AM A BIG FAN AS YOU KNOW OF C. N. N. BUT I'VE GOT A PLACE TO CALL HOME IN THE MEANTIME AND I THINK IT'S WHAT I THINK IS GREAT IS THAT THE AUDIENCE OUT THERE AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT THAT BOX TO GET INFORMATION AND AND TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES WILL HAVE SO MANY MORE CHOICES NOW AND WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT GOING ON THE AIR ON JULY FIFTEENTH AND WE HAVE NO ILLUSIONS ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE COMPETITION THAT WE FACE I MEAN WE'RE JUST A LITTLE TINY PIPSQUEAK OUT THERE ON THE HORIZON HA HA HA WHY ARE YOU GOING HA HA HA DO YOU THINK N. B. C. IS GOING TO BE TROUBLE SURE I THINK EVERYTHING'S TROUBLE YOU KNOW THERE IS ONE HUNDRED CHANNELS OUT THERE AND IF IF THEY'VE ONLY GOT ONE VIEWER THAT'S ONE VIEWER THAT WE DON'T HAVE I MEAN YOU KNOW WE'VE WE'VE GOT THE MOST VIEWERS IN THE CABLE UNIVERSE NOT COUNTING THE BROADCAST AS WE SAID BUT WHEN YOU ADD ALL OUR VIEWERS TOGETHER T. B. S. T. N. T. CARTOON C. N. N. HEADLINE NEWS ET CETERA BUT WE CARE ABOUT EVERY VIEWER YEAH YOU KNOW IT'S A FIGHT FOR EVERY VIEWER AND THAT'S TRUE WITH THE BROADCAST NEWS YOU KNOW IT'S A BATTLE ROYAL EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY DID YOU EVER THINK THIS WOULD HAPPEN WITH CABLE NO I REALLY DIDN'T I MEAN I ACTUALLY TED AND I TALKED ABOUT IT ONE TIME AND HE SAID TO ME WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN WE FIRST STARTED C. N. N. AND I REMEMBER VIVIDLY WATCHING THAT FIRST DAY AND I SAID TO HIM I THOUGHT IT WAS A BRILLIANT CONCEPT BUT I THOUGHT YOU WOULD GO BROKE AND I REMEMBER THE ANSWER YOU SAID TO ME I ALMOST DID A COUPLE OF TIMES OH ABSOLUTELY SO IT TOOK IT TOOK ENORMOUS COURAGE ON HIS PART AND VISION AND NOW TO THINK IT'S NOT JUST CABLE AND THE BROADCASTERS COMING TOGETHER BUT WE'RE IN WE'RE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH MICROSOFT WE'RE IN THE COMPUTER BUSINESS AS WELL SO ALL OF THERE IS THIS KIND OF CONFLUENCE OF ALL THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY COMING INTO YOUR LIVING ROOM COMING INTO YOUR BEDROOM COMING INTO YOUR KITCHEN WHEREVER YOU DO BUSINESS ON ONE OF THESE BOXES AND YOU WILL THE POSSIBILITIES ARE LIMITLESS WHAT'S CAUSING ALL THIS TIME WARNER AND TURNER MICROSOFT AND N. B. C. EVERYBODY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TEN CORPORATIONS IN AMERICA WHAT'S GOING ON WHY WELL THE COST OF COMPETING IS IS SO GREAT IT'S LIKE WORLD WAR TWO YOU KNOW YOU COULDN'T FIGHT BY YOURSELF WHEN POLAND WAS WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY FIGHTING WITH THEM THEY GOT THEY GOT BEATEN AND YOU JUST HAVE TO BUILD UP ALLIANCES AND BE BIG BIG ENOUGH AND STRONG ENOUGH I MEAN N. B. C. IS PART OF GENERAL ELECTRIC I THINK THE DO FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR WELL I DO FOUR BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR SO I AM YOU KNOW LESS THAN ONE TENTH THE SIZE OF GENERAL ELECTRIC AND AT AND T. IS COMING INTO THE BUSINESS AND ALL OF THE PHONE COMPANIES I MEAN IT'S IT'S IT'S A NIGHTMARE AND AND WE'VE GOT TO BE PART OF A BIGGER COMPANY THAT'S ALL I MEAN IT'S IT'S SAD BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS ARE YOU GIVING ANY THOUGHTS TO ARE YOU HEARING OTHER OFFERS I MEAN THAT'S FAIR TO ASK YOUR CONTRACT'S UP ARE YOU HEARING ARE YOU LISTENING WHAT I HEAR FROM MEREDITH BROKAW IS THAT WE OUGHT TO GO TO MONTANA AND PUT OUR FEET UP AND DO A LOT OF FISHING AND RIDE A LOT OF HORSES THAT'S RIGHT HEY LISTEN WE'RE GOING TO BE FRIENDS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS YOU KNOW YOU KNOW I MEAN MICHAEL JORDAN DOESN'T PLAY FOR THE HAWKS I WISH HE DID BUT BUT I STILL LIKE HIM A LOT ARE YOU GOING TO BID FOR MICHAEL JORDAN CAN'T I MEAN MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE PROPERTY OF THE CHICAGO BILLS HE'S A FREE AGENT I DON'T MAYBE I COULD GET HIM AS A BASEBALL PLAYER ALL RIGHT TIME WARNER TURNER THAT MERGER HAPPENED BY GERALD LEVIN GOING TO MONTANA RIGHT WHAT IF WELL IT'S WELL THAT'S OKAY WHAT IF BROKAW AND YOU SAT DOWN IN MONTANA WELL WE DO I MEAN WE DO EVERY SUMMER WE USUALLY TALK ABOUT IT WE YOU KNOW THAT'S WHY CAN'T I GET ARE YOU SAYING YOU WOULD BE YOU WOULD LISTEN THAT'S ALL I AM ASKING OF COURSE I'M LISTENING YOU KNOW I HAVE THE HIGHEST REGARD FOR TED I THINK HE'S ONE OF THE I REALLY HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT HE IS ONE OF THE GREAT ENTREPRENEURIAL MINDS OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY NOT JUST IN THIS COUNTRY BUT AROUND THE WORLD THE GREATEST SAIL RACER OF HIS TIME AND THEN INVENTED THIS NEW FORM IT HAS BEEN GREAT FOR MY CHOSEN PROFESSION OF JOURNALISM I THINK IT'S CHANGED THE EQUATION IN ALL THE RIGHT WAYS BUT I'VE SPENT THIRTY VERY HAPPY YEARS AT A PLACE THAT I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT WITH A LOT OF VERY WONDERFUL COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE BEEN ONLY SUPPORTIVE OF ME AND AS YOU KNOW LARRY IT'S NOT THE PEOPLE IT'S NOT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE AIR WITH YOU DAMN RIGHT BUT THE GUYS DOWN IN THE EDITING ROOM THE CORRESPONDENT THAT YOU PICK UP THE PHONE AND SAY YOU'VE GOT TO GO TO RWANDA OR THE CAMERAMAN WHO LIVES IN SOUTH AFRICA AND PUTS HIS LIFE ON THE LINE WHEN HE GOES UP TO UP TO A HELL HOLE SOMEWHERE THOSE PEOPLE ARE ALL VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AND WE'VE AND WE'VE COME THROUGH A LOT TOGETHER SO I WOULDN'T GIVE THAT UP LIGHTLY BUT I'VE OF COURSE I LOVE BEING WITH HIM AND I WE HAVE A GREAT TIME FISHING I MEAN WE SPEND THREE DAYS TOGETHER AND I CAN BARELY RAISE MY FLYROD BY THE END I AM LAUGHING SO HARD NO ONE ADMIRES LOYALTY MORE THAN YOU RIGHT THAT'S RIGHT SO IF HE STAYS LOYAL YOU WILL ADMIRE HIM OH HEY LISTEN WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT THAT ANYMORE LARRY I'M NOT WE SHOULD GO ON TO SOMETHING ELSE THANK YOU TED YOU BET THANK YOU LARRY THANK YOU TOM TED TURNER LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE CHAIRMAN INCOMING CHAIRMAN OF N. C. T. A. AND PRESIDENT OF TURNER BROADCASTING WE WILL REMAIN WITH YOUR QUESTIONS FOR TOM BROKAW RIGHT AFTER THIS DON'T GO AWAY WE'RE BACK WITH TOM BROKAW WE WILL BE TAKING QUESTIONS FOR TOM YOU MAY WONDER WHY WE HAVE AN EMPTY CHAIR THERE ONE COULD SAY IT'S BECAUSE NO ONE CAN FILL A CHAIR THAT WAS SAT IN BY TED TURNER OTHERS COULD SAY IT'S FOR PETER JENNINGS MAYBE OR DAN RATHER OR OTHERS COULD SAY OR BERNARD SHAW YOU SEE IT'S THE EMPTY CHAIR IN HONOR OR YOU COULD SAY THAT THE CREW COULDN'T GET IT OUT OF THERE IN TIME BEFORE THE BREAK YOU COULD SAY THAT AS WELL IT COULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE THINGS TOO DO YOU PINCH YOURSELF EVERY DAY I DO THIS IS A LIFE I THINK THAT YOU AND I WOULD SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT IT IT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ONCE DO YOU BELIEVE THIS BEYOND MY WILDEST EXPECTATIONS YOU KNOW I GREW UP IN A WORKING CLASS FAMILY IN SOUTH DAKOTA AND I HAD TWO WONDERFUL PARENTS WHO TRIED TO PROVIDE EVERYTHING THAT THEY COULD FOR ME WHICH IS A GOOD EDUCATION AND GOOD VALUES AND THEN I LAUNCHED MYSELF IN NINETEEN SIXTY TWO WITH MY WIFE OF ALMOST THIRTY FIVE YEARS NOW MEREDITH FROM A SMALL TOWN AND VERY QUICKLY WE WERE IN LOS ANGELES AND WORKING FOR THE NETWORK AND WHEN WE GOT HERE IN NINETEEN SIXTY SIX THIRTY YEARS AGO THIS WEEK THIS CITY I THOUGHT I DON'T ASK ANYTHING MORE NOT BAD YOU KNOW NO THIS WAS GREAT AND YOU ANCHORED HERE I ANCHORED HERE AND I WAS A CORRESPONDENT AS WELL FOR THE NETWORK DURING THAT TIME SO I HAD A KIND OF BIFURCATED ROLE I DID A LOT OF POLITICAL REPORTING OUT OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT TIME IN OUR LIFE WITH A LOT GOING ON OBVIOUSLY IN THE SIXTIES HERE I REMEMBER WHEN I ARRIVED IN MAY OF NINETEEN SIXTY SIX AND I CAME INTO COVER A LOT OF POLITICS AND THEY SAID WELL THERE IS THIS GUY RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR WE DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO WIN THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION BUT YOU CAN BEING BY COVERING RONALD REAGAN SO EARLY ON I WAS RIDING A BUS WITH RONALD REAGAN OUT IN ORANGE COUNTY AND DIFFERENT PLACES THIS MUST HAVE BEEN A GREAT LOCAL NEWS MARKET IT WAS AND WE WERE THE FIRST ONES YOU KNOW WHEN I CAME IN HERE C. B. S. WAS A VERY STRONG STATION IN THOSE DAYS AND N. B. C. THEN WENT TO THE FIRST TWO HOUR LOCAL FORMAT AND I DARESAY ONE OF THE DISAPPOINTMENTS I'VE HAD IN THE LAST THIRTY YEARS IS THE CHARACTER OF LOCAL NEWS HAS CHANGED IN A WAY THAT I DON'T THINK IS FOR THE BETTER FIRES AND CRIMES RIGHT AND YOU KNOW AND IT'S MOSTLY CAPTIONS BENEATH PICTURES SOMEWHERE WE HAD INVESTIGATIVE UNITS AND WE WERE BREAKING STORIES ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WE DID SERIOUS EDUCATION NEWS WE DID SERIOUS POLITICAL NEWS CITY HALL WAS COVERED AS IT SHOULD BE I HAD THE WHOLE WEST AS MY BEAT YOU KNOW WHEN IT CAME TO POLITICS AND A LOT OF VERY GOOD PEOPLE CAME OUT OF HERE BRYANT GUMBEL WAS WORKING AT THE TIME TOM SNYDER WAS WORKING HERE AT THE TIME AND WE HAD TWO HOURS OF LOCAL NEWS AND IT WAS BREATHTAKING HOW DID YOU COME TO THE NETWORK I WAS WORKING FIRST IN OMAHA AFTER I LEFT SOUTH DAKOTA AND I DREW A LITTLE ATTENTION THEM FROM THE PEOPLE IN CHICAGO AT N. B. C. GOT A JOB IN ATLANTA AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ON WSB THERE WERE A COUPLE OF BIG STORIES THAT THE NETWORK COULDN'T GET THEIR CORRESPONDENTS TO QUICKLY ENOUGH SO I WOULD GO DOWN AND COVER FOR THEM UNTIL THEY GOT THERE AND YOU KNOW AND MODESTLY HAD A COUPLE OF BEATS AND THEY NOTICED THAT AND THEY SAID GEE WE'D LIKE TO TAKE YOU TO CALIFORNIA AND HOW FROM L. A. TO NEW YORK WELL I WHEN I WAS OUT HERE YOU KNOW I WAS DOING A LOT OF NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTING AND WHEN WATERGATE BEGAN TO BREAK AND I KNEW A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN THE NIXON WHITE HOUSE BECAUSE MANY OF THEM CAME FROM HERE BOB HALDEMANN AND RON ZIEGLER AND SO ON AND I MEAN I HAD COVERED THEM IN THE PAST THEY SAID WELL IT'S TIME NOW ' JOHN CHANCELLOR I REMEMBER SAID TO ME YOU KNOW IT'S TIME TO GIVE UP THAT GOOD LIFE ON THE BEACH AND MOVE BACK TO THE EAST AND BE A GROWNUP MY FAMILY RESISTED THE IDEA BUT I LANDED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BIGGEST POLITICAL STORY OF THE TWO HUNDRED YEARS OF THIS CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM YOU'VE BEEN QUOTED IN THE PAPERS SAYING THAT YOU WANT TO DO OTHER THINGS DOES THAT MEAN YOU ARE TIRED OF ANCHORING WELL YOU KNOW I AM LESS TAKEN WITH THE IDEA OF BEING ON TELEVISION THAN I SUPPOSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS MOST OF MY ADULT LIFE THE IDEA OF GOING ON EVERY NIGHT AND SAYING GOOD EVENING AND THEN SAYING GOOD NIGHT I'LL SEE YOU AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT IS NOT THE MOST GRATIFYING PART OF THE WORK FOR ME YOU KNOW THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT WE DO IS DECIDING WHAT WE SHOULD PUT ON THE AIR THAT NIGHT AND HOW WE CAN DO IT SO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO DO WHAT WELL I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE A TIME TO REFLECT I AM WRITING A BOOK RIGHT NOW NOT ABOUT MYSELF BUT ABOUT WHERE THIS COUNTRY IS AS IT GOES INTO THE TWENTY FIRST CENTURY TED AND I DO ENJOY A LOT OF THINGS IN THE OUT OF DOORS AND I AM NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I STILL HAVE MY LEGS SO YOU WANT LESS TIME ON THE AIR YEAH THAT WOULD BE FINE WITH ME SO WHY ADD A TALK SHOW WELL BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS NETWORK TO GET THIS NEW ENTERPRISE UNDERWAY IN THE RIGHT FASHION AND IF I CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THAT I AM HAPPY TO DO IT I ALSO FEEL STRONGLY THAT THAT WE NEED TO RAISE MORE ISSUES BEFORE THIS COUNTRY YOU ARE THE ONLY PLACE IN THE EVENING REALLY WHERE YOU CAN TUNE IN AND GET KIND OF ENLIGHTENED POLITICAL TALK SEVERAL NIGHTS A WEEK WELL WE WE JUST THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE MORE PLACES LIKE THAT SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT ARE YOU WILL YOU BE COMMITTED TO THAT FOR A LONG TIME OR ARE YOU JUST HELPING THEM GET IT OFF THE GROUND WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW IT GOES I'M GOING TO CERTAINLY DO IT THROUGH THE ELECTION AND PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THAT BUT CERTAINLY AFTER THE ELECTION THAT IS WHERE MY COMMITMENT IS RIGHT NOW AND A LOT OF VERY GOOD PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE ON THE NEW MSNBC TWENTY FOUR HOUR A DAY DID YOU EVER ARE THERE EVER NIGHTS WHEN YOU ARE SAYING I I'M NOT THRILLED WITH THIS OH SURE I MEAN WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT YOU KNOW I KIND OF RUN DOWN IN TERMS OF MY INTELLECTUAL AND EMOTIONAL COMMITMENT TO WHAT I AM DOING AND THEN A BIG STORY BREAKS OR I GO TO A PLACE LIKE OKLAHOMA CITY ONE YEAR LATER FOR EXAMPLE AND STAND THERE AND SEE THOSE PEOPLE AND KNOW WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH AND FEEL IF I HAVE A SMALL PART IN CONVEYING THAT TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY AND TO THE REST OF THE WORLD THIS IS AN HONORABLE LINE OF WORK STANDING AT THE BERLIN WALL I RAN SOME OF THAT TAPE I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT NIGHT INTERVIEWING GORBACHEV THE DAY THE CHALLENGER WENT DOWN THE OLD DAYS IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT YOU'D BE IN A SMALL TOWN IN THE DARK OF NIGHT THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF VERY NASTY PEOPLE SURROUNDING YOU AND YOU WOULD SEE THESE BRAVE YOUNG BLACK PEOPLE COME OUT OF A CHURCH AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO MARCH DOWN THAT STREET FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND I'D SAY TO THEM BUT THEY SAY THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOU AND THEY SAID WELL WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THAT CHANCE AND YOU KNOW I THINK IT'S A REAL PRIVILEGE TO BE AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST I REALLY DO WE HAVE ENORMOUS FREEDOMS AND WE HAVE I BELIEVE A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE AND WE OUGHT NOT TO IN ANY WAY DIMINISH THAT AND TELEVISION'S IMPACT HAS INCREASED TREMENDOUSLY RIGHT I MEAN SINCE YOU STARTED IN IT IT'S YOU KNOW NEVER A SECOND IS IT THAT THERE'S ONE OF THOSE SETS IN ALMOST EVERY ROOM IN EVERY HOUSE IN AMERICA AND THERE IS SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT COMES OUT OF IT AND IF YOU IF YOU WORK AT IT A LITTLE BIT YOU CAN SEE AND LEARN JUST ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO THESE DAYS SO I THINK IT'S IT'S A RICH ENVIRONMENT AND I'M GLAD TO BE A PART OF IT BY THE WAY TOMORROW NIGHT LESLIE ABRAMSON WILL BE WITH US AND IN HIS FIRST APPEARANCE SINCE BEING FIRED IN NEW YORK THE CONTROVERSIAL TALK SHOW HOST BOB GRANT WILL BE WITH US TOMORROW NIGHT AND ONE WEEK FROM TOMORROW NIGHT IN NEW YORK WITH TOM'S COMPATRIOT PETER JENNINGS WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK AND TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE FOR TOM BROKAW RIGHT AFTER THIS DON'T GO AWAY WE'RE BACK WITH TOM BROKAW BEFORE WE TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE THE THE NIGHT OF THE SIMPSON THING HE DIDN'T SHOW HE DIDN'T COME IN THE LONG RANGE VIEW MIGHTN'T YOU HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF HAD THAT NOT I DIDN'T THINK OCCURRED WAS IT A NO WIN I TELL YOU MY FAMILY CERTAINLY THOUGHT I WAS BETTER OF I HAD QUITE A ABOUT AS SPIRITED DISCUSSIONS WITH MY DAUGHTERS AS I'VE EVER HAD ABOUT THE IDEA THAT I WAS GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT SOMETHING WOULD GO WRONG AT THE LAST MINUTE REALLY YEAH I DID FROM THE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING I'D SAY TO ANDY AND OTHERS LISTEN I WILL BE SURPRISED IF HE SHOWS UP AND WHEN WE DID THAT SHOW THAT NIGHT IT WAS YOU THAT TOLD ANDY LACK TO CALL IN RIGHT WELL WE WERE WE WERE ON THE PHONE TOGETHER WATCHING WE KNEW THAT YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE THE CRITICS ON AND NO ONE KNEW ANYTHING AND YOU KNOW GOD BLESS THEM WE ALL SHOULD HAVE CRITICS IN LIFE BUT THEY WERE ON SAYING WHAT THEY THOUGHT HAD HAPPENED AND WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THE FACT IS THAT WE DID EVERYTHING RIGHT AND THE INTEGRITY OF N. B. C. NEWS WAS AT STAKE AND WE DREW THE LINE AND WE SAID NO THERE WILL BE NO CONDITIONS WE HAD A LOT OF TOUGH QUESTIONS BUT YOU TOLD HIM TO CALL IN RIGHT YEAH I GOT ON THE PHONE TO ANDY AND I SAID YOU'VE GOT TO CALL AND AT THAT POINT THEY WERE BETH COMSTALK WHO IS IN THE AUDIENCE HERE HAD THE NUMBER HANDY AND SHE WAS READY TO HAVE HIM MAKE THE CALL YEAH THE GENTLEMAN AS WE GO TO QUESTIONS FOR TOM BROKAW YES SIR I FEEL THE NEWS HAS BECOME EXTREMELY NEGATIVE DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO INTERJECT MORE POSITIVE STORIES FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE CONSTANT COMPLAINT YOU KNOW IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN HEARING FOR AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN DOING THIS AND IN FACT EVERY NIGHT WE HAVE SOMETHING IN THE NEWS THAT IS UPLIFTING JUST TONIGHT ROBERT ROZELLE HAD A REPORT ON SOME NEW TREATMENTS FOR RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS FOR EXAMPLE A MEDICAL ADVANCEMENT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF GOOD NEWS WE'VE SENT NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF OUT ACROSS AMERICA TO FIND SCHWARZKOPF'S HEROES WE DO SOMETHING CALLED THE AMERICAN DREAM AT THE END OF EVERY WEEK BUT OUR OBLIGATION REALLY IS TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT CHANGES ARE TAKING PLACE IN SOCIETY SO THEY WILL KNOW HOW TO RESPOND TO THEM AND IF WE KIND OF TAKE A POLLYANNA ATTITUDE AND SAY OH EVERYTHING'S FINE AND COVER IT UP IT QUICKLY REACHES A CRITICAL MASS AND THEN YOU CANNOT DEAL WITH IT SO IT'S IT'S BETTER TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING AND I'M YOU KNOW BY THE WAY YOU KNOW ONE PERSON'S IDEA OF BAD NEWS IS ANOTHER PERSON'S IDEA OF GOOD NEWS SO IT'S VERY HARD TO SAY IF THERE IS A HARD FORMULA HERE THE LADY MR. BROKAW WE ENJOY YOUR IN DEPTH STORIES EVERY EVENING BUT I WONDER YOU MENTIONED CHOOSING WHICH STORIES ARE PUT ON THE AIR IS THERE AN ISSUE FACING THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW THAT YOU FEEL IS NOT GETTING ENOUGH COVERAGE GOOD QUESTION WELL I THINK YEAH I DO I THINK THAT THE SINGLE MOST DIFFICULT ISSUE THAT WE FACE IN AMERICA IS THE CONTINUING CONFLICT OVER RACE BLACK WHITE BROWN AND ASIAN AND WE HAVE NOT RESOLVED THAT THIRTY YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS COVERING WATTS AND COVERING THE SOUTH I REALLY THOUGHT THAT IN MY LIFETIME I WOULD SEE A RESOLUTION OF THAT IN SOME WAYS I THINK IF YOU ASK PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL WHATEVER THEIR COLOR WHETHER IT'S BETTER OR WORSE NOW IN SOME WAYS IT'S WORSE IT'S MORE POLARIZED WHY I THINK THAT THERE IS MORE SUSPICION THERE HAS BEEN LESS OF AN EFFORT TO FIND A KIND OF COMMONWEALTH HERE I THINK PEOPLE ARE BETTER ORGANIZED NOW THAN THEY WERE THIRTY YEARS AGO I THINK THAT THERE IS WE JUST HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER A KIND OF A MORAL HURDLE WHEN IT COMES TO RACE AND THIS FLIES BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE RACIAL LINE YOU KNOW NOT ALL OF THE RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THE WHITE MAJORITY POPULATION CERTAINLY ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER AND WHAT THEY BRING TO THEIR FIRST IMPRESSION SHOULD WE COVER IT BETTER YES I THINK WE SHOULD I THINK WE SHOULD COVER IT MORE HONESTLY I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE BOLDER IN OUR COVERAGE OF IT AND I THINK THAT AND IT IS AS YOU KNOW IN YOUR OWN NEWSROOMS IT'S AN INCENDIARY ISSUE BECAUSE PEOPLE QUICKLY BECOME POLARIZED WELL WE'RE GOING TO COVER IT THIS WAY AND PEOPLE SAY WELL NO WE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE IT WILL BE POLITICALLY INCORRECT OR MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BAD I THINK THAT THIS SOCIETY HAS GOT TO START TALKING ABOUT RACE IN WAYS THAT IT HAS NOT AND I SAY TO FOLKS WHEN I GO OUT AROUND THE COUNTRY IF I AM TALKING TO A BLACK AUDIENCE I WILL SAY DO YOU HAVE ANY WHITE FRIENDS THAT YOU HAVE DINNER WITH AND DO YOU ASK THEM THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DISCUSS AMONG EACH OTHER I SAY TO MY WHITE FRIENDS WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAD A REALLY HEART TO HEART CONVERSATION WITH A BLACK PERSON IN THIS COMMUNITY OF LOS ANGELES WHERE YOU HAVE SUCH A MELTING POT I WAS JUST READING TODAY THAT KOREAN MERCHANTS FOR EXAMPLE FEEL THAT THEY HAVE NOT RECOVERED FROM THE RIOTS OF THE RODNEY KING ERA AND THEY ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND THEIR PLACE AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER SHOW TOMORROW NEVER STOPS AND YOU KNOW THAT THAT IS COMING EXACTLY AND IT IS AN ISSUE THAT WE HAVE NOT PUT ON THE NATIONAL AGENDA AS WE DID DURING THE NINETEEN SIXTIES BACK WITH MORE AND MORE QUESTIONS FOR TOM BROKAW ON LARRY KING LIVE RIGHT AFTER THIS DON'T GO AWAY TURNER HAS A VERY IMPRESSIVE SET UP HERE AT THIS CONVENTION LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF THINGS OUR GUEST IS TOM BROKAW LET'S TAKE A PHONE CALL AND SOME MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE WILKES BARRE PENNSYLVANIA HELLO HELLO LARRY AND MR. BROKAW MR. BROKAW MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHAT SINGLE INTERVIEW OR COVERED EVENT THROUGHOUT YOUR YOUR OWN CAREER WOULD YOU CONSIDER TO BE THE MOST MEMORABLE TO YOU AND WHY I GUESS I'D HAVE TO SAY A COMBINATION OF TWO THINGS STANDING AT THE BERLIN ON THE NIGHT THAT IT CAME DOWN AND I WAS THE ONLY ONE THERE LIVE AROUND THE WORLD AND THAT WAS A MEMORABLE TIME BECAUSE IT WAS A HISTORIC EVENT AND IT REALLY BEGAN THE SLOW DEATH OF COMMUNISM BEGAN TO THEN SPEED UP WITH THAT EVENT AND HAVING LIVED WITH THE BERLIN WALL MOST OF MY PROFESSIONAL LIFE IT WAS A PRIVILEGE TO STAND THERE AND SEE IT COME DOWN AND THEN I DID THE FIRST INTERVIEW WITH MIKHAIL GORBACHEV THAT A WESTERN JOURNALIST EVER DID WITH A GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY IT WAS DIFFICULT BECAUSE AS WE LATER LEARNED HE LOVED TO TALK AND DIDN'T LIKE TO LISTEN AND WE HAD TROUBLES WITH THE TRANSLATION BUT IT WAS STILL A BREAKTHROUGH TIME BECAUSE THEN THOSE COMMUNIST LEADERS BECAME ACCESSIBLE TO ALL OF US FROM THE WEST SO THOSE WERE THE TWO THAT WHEN EMOTION TAKES OVER DOES THAT AFFECT REPORTERS LIKE YOU ARE STANDING AT THE WALL I REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF LARRY DON'T SCREW THIS ONE UP THIS IS THIS IS A BIG NIGHT TRY TO KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE DEAL WITH THE FACTS AS YOU KNOW THEM AT THE SAME TIME TO THAT YOUNGER AUDIENCE OUT THERE TRY TO CONNECT THEM TO WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE NOT JUST THROUGH THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING OVER THE WALL BUT THEIR PARENTS HAD LIVED WITH THIS SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO AND THERE IS BEHIND THAT WALL A WHOLE POPULATION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVELY IMPRISONED FOR ALL OF OUR LIFETIME AND NOW THEY ARE FREE THE GENTLEMAN YES SIR I'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS OF BROADCASTING INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTING FOR OVER TEN YEARS I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TOM WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE A NEWS ANCHOR FOR A NETWORK AND HOW WOULD YOU MAP AGAINST YOUR SUCCESS SIR WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE WELL I ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO ME IS THAT IN MY GENERATION I WAS ONE OF THE FEW YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I KNEW WHEN I STARTED OFF IN THIS BUSINESS WHO DECIDED TO GO INTO BROADCAST JOURNALISM IF THERE HADN'T BEEN TELEVISION I'D HAVE BEEN A NEWSPAPERMAN SO THE COMPETITION WASN'T AS MASSIVE AS IT IS NOW EVERYONE I KNOW NOW AND YOU MUST GET THIS A LOT YOU KNOW EVERY FRIEND THAT HAS WANTS TO BE HERE THEY SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO ME AND THEY ARE THESE BRIGHT BRIGHT YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE AT ONE TIME GONE INTO MEDICINE OR INTO LAW OR INTO POLITICS OR SOMETHING ELSE NOW THEY WANT TO BE IN THIS BUSINESS I THINK YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO WRITE YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ENORMOUS CURIOSITY ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO LIVE AN UNCONVENTIONAL LIFE DO YOU HAVE YOUR SUCCESSOR ALREADY AT N. B. C. DO THEY KNOW WHO IS GOING TO THEY HAVE A LOT OF VERY GOOD PEOPLE AT N. B. C. AND I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO THAT GAME ON THIS LARRY AT THIS POINT BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO I'VE GOT TO WORK WITH THEM AND AROUND THEM FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS WE'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE THE GENTLEMAN MR. BROKAW I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR VIEW OF HOW THE NEW SELECTION PROCESS IS IMPACTED BY CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP NOT AT ALL I MEAN WE DON'T AT ALL NOT AT ALL I MEAN IT NEVER COMES UP IN FACT WHEN G. E. BOUGHT N. B. C. WE HAD A LITTLE SESSION WITHIN THE NEWS DIVISION AND WE DECIDED THAT WE OUGHT TO DO TWO THINGS WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO COVER MORE STORIES ABOUT G. E. THAN THE OTHER TWO WOULD WHEN THEY WERE CRITICAL STORIES JUST BECAUSE AFTER ALL IT'S CEASAR'S WIFE AND THE SECOND THING THAT WE DID EVERY TIME WE DO A STORY ABOUT G. E. WE SAY GENERAL ELECTRIC CORPORATE PARENT OF N. B. C. NEWS SO THERE IS NO ILLUSION OUT THERE THAT WE ARE TRYING TO SLIDE SOMETHING BY TRUTH WILL SERVE YOU BEST ALL THE TIME ALL THE TIME WE WILL BE BACK WITH OUR REMAINING MOMENTS WITH TOM BROKAW ON LARRY KING LIVE SHARON STONE ON FRIDAY NIGHT THIS AIN'T A BAD JOB NOT TONIGHT NOT TONIGHT OH OKAY WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK WE'RE BACK WITH TOM BROKAW TOM TOM JUST REMINDED OUR AUDIENCE THAT WE WERE ON THE SAME AIRPLANE GOING INTO DES MOINES IOWA TO BROADCAST FROM THE PRIMARY AT THE VOTE THERE AND WE HIT WIND SHEER I HAD NEVER HAD WIND SHEER NEITHER HAD YOU NO NOT ON A LANDING LIKE THAT THERE IS NO SOUND QUITE LIKE THAT NUMBER THE PLANE WENT INTO REVERSE THEY HAD TO THEY THRUST THE ENGINES TWICE AND THE DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD WAS BECAUSE LARRY WAS ON BOARD I WAS ON BOARD BOB WOODWARD WAS ON BOARD WHAT WOULD THE HEADLINE BE RIGHT WHO WOULD GET TOP BILLING JOURNALISTS ARE MACABRE WE ARE THAT'S THE FIRST THING WE SAID WHEN WE LANDED WHAT'S THE STORY WHAT WOULD BE AND THEN THE ONE GUY COMING OFF THE PLANE NOBODY WOULD HAVE MENTIONED ME NO DAVID WE ASKED BRIAN WE ASKED TED YOUR THOUGHTS TWO THOUSAND FIVE WHAT'S ON TELEVISION ALL THAT YOU SEE NOW AND MUCH MUCH MORE I THINK THERE WILL BE A REAL SYNERGY BETWEEN THE LARGE SCREEN TELEVISION AND THE SMALL SCREEN THE PERSONAL COMPUTER THERE WILL BE MUCH MORE OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THEM THAN YOU HAVE NOW I THINK YOU WILL USING THE LARGE SCREEN TO BOTH GET ENTERTAINMENT AND SPORTS AND NEWS AND INFORMATION AND ALSO TO DO A LOT MORE CONSUMER USE OF IT NOT JUST THE HOME SHOPPING NETWORK KIND OF THINGS BUT THE VIRTUAL REALITY IN WHICH YOU CAN GO THROUGH THEM ALL GUIDED BY YOUR BY YOUR PERSONAL COMPUTER SO THERE WILL BE A TON OF STUFF AND THE GREAT THING ABOUT THIS BUSINESS IS THAT I DON'T THINK A YEAR FROM NOW WE KNOW EXACTLY THE FORMULA IT IS GOING TO TAKE TEN YEARS AGO WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT PERSONAL COMPUTERS WERE COMING OUR WAY THEY HAD CHANGED OUR WORLD AND WE'LL BE HERE YOU AND I WILL BE YOU BET THANKS TOM THANKS LARRY THANKS THANKS TO THE EARLIER GUESTS AND TED TURNER WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW NIGHT IN THE STUDIOS HERE IN LOS ANGELES WITH LESLIE ABRAMSON AND BOB GRANT FOR EVERYBODY HERE IN LOS ANGELES FOR TOM JOHNSON THE PRESIDENT OF C. N. N. THE WHOLE CREW WENDY WALKER WHITWORTH OUR PRODUCER THEY NEVER GET CALL CREDITS ON THIS SHOW SO WE WILL GIVE IT TO THEM NOW BYE BYE GOOD EVENING UGLY BITTER NASTY A LONG SIMMERING BUSINESS FEUD BETWEEN TWO ENTERTAINMENT GIANTS TONIGHT IS IN COURT M. C. A. HAS FILED SUIT AGAINST VIACOM SAYING IT'S BEING LOCKED OUT OF VIACOM'S NEWEST CABLE CHANNEL VIACOM'S RESPONSE SWIFT AND TO THE POINT A COUNTER SUIT THE LEGAL TIT FOR TAT IS COMING ON THE DAY VIACOM LAUNCHES ITS NEWEST NETWORK NICK AT NITE'S T. V. LAND AND NOT BY COINCIDENCE THIS COULD BE A VERY LUCRATIVE PROGRAM SERVICE FOR VIACOM'S NICKLEODEON OBVIOUSLY THEY DON'T WANT TO SHARE THE PROFITS OF THAT NEW SERVICE WHICH WOULD COME OUT OF THEIR OWN PRODUCT WITH M. C. A. BUT I HOPE THAT THESE COMPANIES WILL BOTH REALIZE THE WORST THING IN THIS INDUSTRY IS HAVING THESE SUITS LIKE THE U. S. WEST TIME WARNER ONE FOR EXAMPLE M. C. A. SAYS WHEN VIACOM BOUGHT PARAMOUNT TWO YEARS AGO IT PUT THE CABLE GIANT ON NOTICE IT EXPECTED TO BE PART OF ANY NEW CABLE CHANNELS VIACOM LAUNCHED M. C. A. AND VIACOM ARE ALREADY PARTNERS IN THE U. S. A. NETWORK M. C. A. IS SUING TO FORCE VIACOM TO SELL ITS STAKE IN U. S. A. NETWORKS THE LAWSUIT COMES JUST ONE WEEK AFTER OUSTED VIACOM CHIEF FRANK BIONDI SIGNED ON AS CHAIRMAN AND C. E. O. OF M. C. A. A MOVE THAT WENT FORWARD ONLY AFTER VIACOM CHAIRMAN SUMNER REDSTONE WAIVED BIONDI'S ONE YEAR NON COMPETE CLAUSE THE BUSINESS BATTLE IS NOW IN COURT AND ON WALL STREET THE TWO COMPANIES TODAY TIED BOTH STOCKS CLOSING UP AN EIGHTH IN PRICE WALL STREET HOWEVER DID REACT TO A PAIR OF BIG MERGERS PROVIDENT TODAY BOUGHT PAUL REVERE PAYING ONE POINT TWO BILLION DOLLARS IN CASH AND STOCK THAT DEAL COMBINES TWO RIVALS IN THE DISABILITY AND LIFE INSURANCE BUSINESS THE MERGED COMPANY WILL HOLD A THIRTY FIVE PERCENT SHARE OF THE MARKET SHARES OF PROVIDENT ROSE TWO AND ONE HALF DOLLARS A SHARE PAUL REVERE SLIPPED AN EIGHTH AND A MEGA DEAL TONIGHT IN THE COMPUTER SERVICES INDUSTRY COMPUTER SCIENCES TODAY BOUGHT CONTINUUM IN A STOCK SWAP VALUED AT ONE POINT FIVE BILLION DOLLARS THE PURCHASE BOOSTS COMPUTER SCIENCE'S PRESENCE IN A KEY MARKET SOFTWARE AND SERVICES FOR THE INSURANCE AND BANKING INDUSTRIES CONTINUUM'S SHARES SKYROCKETED TWELVE DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE ALMOST A THIRD IN PRICE WHILE COMPUTER SCIENCES LOST TWO DOLLAR AND SEVENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE WELL THE TECH STOCKS OVERALL HAVE BEEN ON A RAMPAGE OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH FIRM DATAQUEST TODAY PREDICTED THE WORLD WIDE P. C. MARKET WILL GROWN NINETEEN PERCENT THIS YEAR AND REGISTER DOUBLE DIGIT GROWTH FOR THE REST OF THE DECADE HUNDREDS OF COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO TAP INTO THE EXPANDING FIELD CASEY WIAN HAS OUR REPORT COMPUTER PIONEER STEPHEN JOBS KICKING OFF THE HAMBRECHT AND QUIST TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE WHERE THREE HUNDRED COMPANIES WITH MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS IN ANNUAL SALES ARE PITCHING MONEY MANAGERS ON EVERYONE'S MIND CAN TECHNOLOGY STOCKS KEEP WOWING WALL STREET DELL COMPUTER DISCOUNTED FORECASTS OF SLOWER INDUSTRY GROWTH AND PROFIT SQUEEZING PRICE WARS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH AT LEAST THE LEAD PLAYERS OR STEERERS AS I'M FOND OF SAYING HAVE CALLED OUT FAIRLY ROBUST DEMAND MOST INDUSTRIES WOULD KILL TO HAVE THAT KIND OF DEMAND TECHONOLOGY'S SHARE OF U. S. DOMESTIC PRODUCT GREW FROM FOUR PERCENT IN THE EARLY EIGHTIES TO TEN PERCENT TODAY WE'RE NOT STOPPING AT TEN PERCENT OF THE G. D. P. IN FACT I THINK THE RATE OF PENETRATION WILL ACCELERATE FUNDAMENTALLY THE OUTLOOK FOR TECHNOLOGY HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER STILL SOME ARE HERE TO EXPLAIN DISAPPOINTING RESULTS SEAGATE TECHNOLOGIES RECENTLY ACQUIRED A COMPETITOR AND PROMPTLY LOST MONEY AND SALES BUT SEAGATE HAS A THIRD OF THE WORLD'S DISK DRIVE MARKET AND PREDICTS GROWTH IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT LONG AGO WHEN I WAS HOPING THAT WE COULD BREAK THE ONE BILLION DOLLAR BARRIER OBVIOUSLY NOW I'M ANXIOUS TO SEE US BREAK THE TEN BILLION DOLLAR BARRIER PRIVATELY HELD GRADIENT TECHNOLOGIES MAKES PROGRAMS FOR CORPORATE INTERNET USERS IT'S C. E. O. HAS SEEN OTHER INTERNET COMPANIES GO PUBLIC RECENTLY RAISING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE YOU HERE AS MAYBE PART OF A PLAN TO GO PUBLIC WELL THE COMPANY'S PROFITABLE AND GROWING SO WE HAVEN'T FOUND A FINANCIAL DRIVE FOR IT BUT IT IS AN INTERESTING AND TEMPTING MARKET THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT DURING THE PAST YEAR THE NUMBER OF PUBLICLY TRADED INTERNET COMPANIES HAS TRIPLED TO MORE THAN THIRTY THIS FRIDAY THE CONFERENCE CONCLUDES WITH THREE MAJOR PLAYERS MICROSOFT INTUIT AND SUN MICROSYSTEMS PRESENTING THEIR INTERNET STRATEGIES CASEY WIAN C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS SAN FRANCISCO ON WALL STREET TODAY HIGH TECH STOCKS CONTINUED TO WOW INVESTORS THE TECH HEAVY NASDEQ COMPOSITE HIT A RECORD HIGH THE EIGHTH STRAIGHT RECORD TODAY RISING ONE POINT THREE ONE TO FINISH AT ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY EIGHT POINT TWO OH HEAVY TRADING ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY FOUR MILLION SHARES WERE TRADED AND THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIALS TONIGHT AT FIVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED SEVENTY THREE POINT FOUR ONE GAINING FIVE POINT FOUR TWO VOLUME MORE THAN THREE HUNDRED FORTY FOUR MILLION SHARES BOND PRICES MEANWHILE SELLING LOWER THE TREASURY'S THIRTY YEAR ISSUE DOWN MORE THAN A HALF POINT IN PRICE AND THE YIELD TONIGHT AT SIX POINT EIGHT FOUR PERCENT BONDS LOST GROUND DESPITE WEAK ECONOMIC NEWS NEW HOME SALES IN MARCH DECLINED BY SEVEN POINT SIX PERCENT TO THE LOWEST IN TEN MONTHS FEBRUARY'S SALES ALSO REVISED LOWER THE HOUSING SECTOR IS ESSENTIALLY FLAT HAVING ALREADY RESPONDED TO A VERY SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN INTEREST RATES WE'VE SEEN INTEREST RATES MOVE UP ONE FULL PERCENTAGE POINT OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS THAT'S OF COURSE MAKING MORTGAGES MORE EXPENSIVE AND DETERRING SOME NEW HOME BUYERS WELL IN THE NATION'S HEARTLAND TODAY RAIN FELL AND SO DID GRAIN PRICES SINKING FROM RECENT HIGHS AS TRADERS SAW AN END TO THE DROUGHT FROM CHICAGO CECI RODGERS HAS MORE ON TODAY'S VOLATILE SESSION HEAVY RAINFALL IN THE MIDWEST HELPED REIGN IN RECORD HIGH GRAIN PRICES THE MAY CONTRACTS FOR WHEAT AND CORN NOW TRADING WITH NO PRICE LIMITS BECAUSE THEY EXPIRE IN THREE WEEKS PLUMMETED AN UNPRECEDENTED SIXTY FIVE CENTS AND THIRTY THREE AND THREE QUARTERS CENTS RESPECTIVELY WE'RE IN AN EXTREMELY VOLATILE SITUATION WITH HISTORIC HIGHS SO YOU HAVE TO EXPECT VERY SIGNIFICANT MOVES BOTH UP AND DOWN MADE ALL THE MORE EXPLOSIVE BY THE LOWEST SUPPLY OF AVAILABLE WHEAT IN FIFTY YEARS AND THE SMALLEST STOCKPILE OF CORN IN TWENTY YEARS AND IN THE WAKE OF THE MARCH EXPIRATION OF WHEAT WHEN PRICES ROCKETED TWO DOLLAR AND FIFTY CENT A BUSHEL IN THE FINAL MINUTES OF TRADING THE CHICAGO BOARD OF TRADE AND COMMODITY REGULATORS ARE CLOSELY SCRUTINIZING THE TRADING PITS THE COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION IS SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE TO TRADERS DON'T COMPROMISE THE INTEGRITY OF THE MARKET SOME OF THE EXPIRATIONS ARE NATURAL OCCURRENCES AND WE THINK THE MARKETPLACE IS SAFE BUT IF YOU DON'T BELONG IN THE MARKET GET OUT THE BOARD OF TRADE HAS NEARLY DOUBLED THE AMOUNT OF MONEY SPECULATORS MUST PUT ON MARGIN TO TRADE GRAINS CONTRACTS AND IN RESPONSE TO CUSTOMER COMPLAINTS MEMBERS ARE MEETING THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS BETTER HANDLING OF SMALL ORDERS POSSIBLY BY SENDING MORE OF THEM TO THE EXCHANGE'S MID AMERICA DIVISION WHERE GRAINS MINI CONTRACTS TRADE WE HAVE NO PLANS RIGHT NOW TO BUILD A NEW AGRICULTURAL TRADING FLOOR BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT WAYS TO MAYBE RECONFIGURE THE FLOOR TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AND TO GET THE ORDERS IN AND OUT OF THE PIT IN A MORE EXPEDITIOUS MANNER TRADERS ARE ANTICIPATING A WILD RIDE IN THE COMING MONTHS AS THE VAGARIES OF MOTHER NATURE WREAK HAVOC ON THE GRAINS MARKETS CECI RODGERS C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS CHICAGO AND COMING UP NEXT ON MONEYLINE THE NEW MAN AT THE HELM OF HILTON HOTELS MY GUEST TONIGHT IS HILTON CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER STEVEN BOHLENBACK AND WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT THE LATEST TREND IN SOCIETY IT'S CIGAR SMOKING AND IT'S BECOMING QUITE THE FASHION FOR A GROWING NUMBER OF MEN YES AND WOMEN YOU CAN'T DO DRUGS YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX YOU CAN'T EAT THIS THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS LEFT YOU CAN DO HAVING A GOOD CIGAR AND ENJOYING A NICE MEAL IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT IT'S ONE OF THE FEW VICES LEFT THAT WE CAN DO THAT DOESN'T HURT ANYBODY WELL HILTON TODAY CONFIRMED IT IS IN TALKS WITH THE BRITISH BETTING HOUSE LADDBROOKE AND HOTEL CHAIN THE OWNER OF THE HILTON INTERNATIONAL CHAIN SPECULATION IS THE TWO WILL MERGE IN WHAT COULD BE A BETTER THAN SEVEN BILLION DOLLAR DEAL HILTON IS ALSO PURSUING ACQUISITIONS IN THE GAMING INDUSTRY ALL OF THIS UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF A NEW CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER A FORMER DISNEY EXECUTIVE WHO KNOWS MORE THAN A THING OR TWO ABOUT ACQUISITIONS HE HELPED ENGINEER THE PURCHASE OF A. B. C. SLASH CAP CITIES WHILE AT DISNEY MY GUEST TONIGHT IS STEPHEN BOLLENBACH AND WE WELCOME YOU STEVE TO MONEYLINE THANK YOU LOU GLAD TO BE HERE YOU'VE HAD QUITE A RUN SO FAR IS IT IS IT THIS RATE THIS PACE SUSTAINABLE YEAH I THINK SO I MEAN YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE AT HILTON HOTELS IS TO TAKE A COMPANY THAT'S BASICALLY UNDER LEVERED IN A VERY VERY FRIENDLY CAPITAL MARKET AND USE THOSE FUNDS AND USE OUR FINANCIAL CAPACITY TO INVEST IN TWO STRONG AND REALLY GOOD BUSINESSES THE FULL SERVICE HOTEL BUSINESS AND THEN ALSO OUR GAMING BUSINESS SO WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY THOSE TWO OPPORTUNITIES YOU DON'T MENTION THE MANAGEMENT BUSINESS IS THAT STILL A SIGNIFICANT INTEREST TO YOU OH ABSOLUTELY AND THE ONLY REASON I DON'T MENTION IS THAT IT'S A MORE LONG TERM PROCESS BUT ANOTHER HUGE ASSET WE HAVE IS THE HILTON NAME AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO USE THAT NAME BOTH IN TERMS OF FRANCHISING OUR NAME AND ALSO IN THE AREA OF MANAGING HOTELS IS ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT ASSET FOR US ARE YOU STEVE ON AN AGGRESSIVE ACQUISITION CAMPAIGN FOR FULL SERVICE HOTELS YES WE ARE WE DO REALIZE THAT THESE ARE GOOD CAPITAL MARKETS WE DO REALIZE THAT OUR COMPANY IS UNDER LEVERED AND SO TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO INVEST IN OUR LINES OF BUSINESSES IS A VERY VERY IMPORTANT ASSET IN AND OF ITSELF FOR US AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF OPPORTUNITIES TO BUY HOTELS FULL SERVICE HOTELS BIG HOTELS HOTELS WHERE THERE'S A NOT A LOT OF COMPETITION FOR ACQUISITION JUST BECAUSE OF THE SHEER SIZE OF THE DEALS YOU KNOW FIFTY DOLLARS ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR TRANSACTIONS SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF COMPETITION ON THE BUY SIDE AND THE OTHER GOOD VERY GOOD PART ABOUT THIS IS FOR THESE KINDS OF PROPERTIES IT'S VERY VERY UNLIKELY THAT THERE'LL BE COMPETING SUPPLY IN THE FORM OF NEW CONSTRUCTION FOR MANY MANY YEARS AND SO IT'S THE AREA THAT WE WANT TO CONCENTRATE OUR INVESTMENT IS AT THE UPPER END OF THE HOTEL BUSINESS YOU'RE DESCRIBING AN IDEAL SITUATION IN TERMS OF ACQUISITION AND ALSO AT THIS SAME TIME YOUR COST OF FUNDS WITH THE CAPITAL MARKETS THE WAY THEY ARE RIGHT NOW THIS LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A TWO EDGED ADVANTAGE YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THEY'RE FRIENDLY CAPITAL ENVIRONMENTS THOSE ARE ONLY USEFUL TO COMPANIES LIKE OURSELVES THAT HAVE AN UNDER LEVERED BALANCE SHEET AND A EXCELLENT CREDIT RATING SO THAT WE CAN TAP THOSE MARKETS AND WE HAVE ACCESS TO THE MARKETS THE MONEY IS VERY CHEAP AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO INVEST IT SO IT IS TRULY A WONDERFUL TIME FOR US TO BE IN THIS INDUSTRY AND TO BE IN OUR POSITION WE'RE IN TERMS OF OUR BALANCE SHEET AND OUR ABILITY TO TAP THE CAPITAL MARKETS I DON'T KNOW IF ONE WOULD DESCRIBE THE ENVIRONMENT AS CHEAP BUT THE GAMING INDUSTRY IS CERTAINLY GOING THROUGH SOME TERRIFIC TIMES AND SO WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS IN TERMS OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY WELL THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE GAMING INDUSTRY IS THAT I THINK FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS AND I THINK IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED IS THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE EXPANSION BY WAY OF NEW JURISDICTIONS BUT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A BIG WELL CAPITALIZED COMPANY LIKE HILTON IS TO BE A PARTICIPANT AND I HOPE THE LEADER IN WHAT WILL BE A NATURAL CONSOLIDATION OF THE BUSINESS AND IN MANY RESPECTS IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THE CABLE BUSINESS WAS FIFTEEN TWENTY YEARS AGO WHERE THE GROWTH CAME THROUGH CONSOLIDATION AS MUCH AS IT DID THROUGH NEW OPPORTUNITIES WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND IN THE GAMING BUSINESS IS THAT IT'S A TWO TIERED INDUSTRY WITH A FEW VERY LARGE WELL CAPITALIZED COMPANIES WHICH SHOULD LEAD TO CONSOLIDATION AND BE THE LEADERS IN THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE BUSINESS WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO CONSOLIDATE NEXT WELL IT'S THE KIND OF AREA WHERE WE REALLY CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC TRANSACTIONS BUT I THINK LOU THAT JUST UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE A CREDIT IN AN INDUSTRY WHERE THERE REALLY IS A TWO TIERED CREDIT RATING WHERE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE MORE EXPENSIVE CAPITAL THAN WE HAVE GIVES US A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO BE THE LEADER IN THIS CONSOLIDATION WHICH IS CERTAIN TO COME WE'VE BEEN REPORTING THE CONFIRMED DISCUSSIONS WITH LADDBROOKE'S WHERE DO YOU HOPE FOR THAT TO LEAD ARE YOU TALKING CAN YOU SHARE WITH US WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING A JOINT VENTURE SOME SORT OF STRATEGIC ALLIANCE OR AN ACTUAL MERGER OR ACQUISITION WELL I THINK THE ECONOMICS OF US BRINGING THESE TWO COMPANIES THAT SHARE THE BRAND AND I THINK MOST OF YOUR AUDIENCE RECOGNIZES THAT THE NAME HILTON OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES IS OWNED BY AN ENGLISH COMPANY NAMED LADDBROOKE RIGHT WITHIN THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE IT THE ECONOMICS OF BRINGING THESE TWO NAMES TOGETHER ARE JUST SO COMPELLING THAT IT'S OF VERY HIGH INTEREST TO ME I'VE SPENT A LOT OF MY PERSONAL TIME WORKING ON THIS ALONG WITH PETER GEORGE WHO IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF LADDBROOKE'S AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO BRING THESE TWO NAMES TOGETHER THE CLOSER WE CAN GET THEM TOGETHER I BELIEVE AND I THINK PETER BELIEVES THE BETTER NOW WHETHER THAT MEANS JOINT VENTURE OR A MORE STRUCTURED BUSINESS COMBINATION WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT AND BALLY'S IS THAT DEAL ON OR OFF WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMMENT ABOUT ANY OF THE ACQUISITIONS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON IN THE GAMING AREA WELL STEVE WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TO TALK ABOUT ALL THAT YOU COULD STEVE BOLLENBACH OF HILTON WE WISH YOU CONTINUED SUCCESS THANK YOU VERY MUCH LOU THANKS STEVE WELL COMING UP NEXT WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD EASE THE PAIN OF THOSE RISING GASOLINE PRICES REPUBLICAN PHIL GRAMM IS CALLING FOR AN OUTRIGHT REPEAL OF THE GASOLINE TAX WE'LL TELL YOU HOW PRESIDENT CLINTON FEELS ABOUT THAT IDEA STAY WITH US IN WASHINGTON TODAY REPUBLICAN SENATOR PHIL GRAMM PROPOSED THE REPEAL OF A FOUR POINT THREE PERCENT RATHER FOUR POINT THREE CENT PER GALLON GASOLINE TAX PRESIDENT CLINTON MEANWHILE ORDERED THE SALE OF TWELVE MILLION BARRELS OF OIL RESERVES BOTH MOVES INTENDED TO COUNTER A FIVE PERCENT SURGE IN GASOLINE PRICES OVER THE PAST TWO WEEKS AN INCREASE RESULTING FROM BOTH HIGHER DEMAND AND HIGHER CRUDE OIL PRICES IRV CHAPMAN HAS OUR REPORT FROM WASHINGTON PRESIDENT CLINTON SPEEDING UP SALES OF PETROLEUM FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S RESERVES HOPING TO BRING DOWN GASOLINE PRICES AND EASING THE POLITICAL HEAT OVER HIGHER PRICES AT THE PUMP CONGRESS AUTHORIZED THE SALE OF TWO HUNDRED TWENTY SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF OIL IN LAST WEEK'S BUDGET DEAL AS A MONEY RAISER MR. CLINTON ACTED AFTER REPUBLICANS GOT INTO THE GAS PRICE ISSUE CANDIDATE BOB DOLE URGING THE REPEAL OF THE GAS TAX HIKE THAT WAS IN THE FIRST CLINTON BUDGET AT FOUR POINT THREE CENTS A GALLON IT'S ALREADY PUT ELEVEN POINT TWO FIVE BILLION DOLLARS INTO THE TREASURY EVERY TIME PEOPLE FILL UP THEIR MINIVAN OR THEIR TRUCK OR THEIR CAR BY REPEALING THIS GASOLINE TAX WE CAN SAVE THEM ABOUT A DOLLAR A TANK WHITE HOUSE AND DEMOCRATIC LEADERS DIDN'T REJECT THE IDEA OUT OF HAND BUT JUST POINTED OUT THAT WITHOUT THE EXTRA GAS TAX THEY'D ALL HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER ELEVEN POINT TWO FIVE BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE NEXT TWO AND A HALF YEARS IT'S EASY FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO COME UP WITH WAYS WITH WHICH TO NOT DISMANTLE THIS EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL PACKAGE BUT I WANT TO SEE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT AND IF THEY CAN COME UP WITH A WAY THAT WILL GENERATE THE SAME DEFICIT REDUCTION IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS AS WE'VE DONE IN THE LAST FOUR THE OIL INDUSTRY SAYS GAS PRICES ARE UP BECAUSE OF MARKET FORCES AND THE RESERVE IS FOR EMERGENCIES SUCH AS AN EMBARGO THE ENERGY DEPARTMENT EXPECTS THE SALES WILL BRING GAS PRICES DOWN EVEN THOUGH IN THE MARKET GAS PRICES LAG BEHIND CHANGES IN THE PRICE OF CRUDE OIL IRV CHAPMAN C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS WASHINGTON WELL THE LAG USUALLY ON THE WAY DOWN NOT USUALLY ON THE WAY UP BLUE CHIP STOCKS TODAY ON WALL STREET MOVING HIGHER THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIALS TONIGHT AT FIVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED SEVENTY THREE POINT FOUR ONE A GAIN OF FIVE POINT FOUR TWO AND VOLUME ONLY MODERATE TRADING THREE HUNDRED FORTY FOUR MILLION SHARES ON THE BIG BOARD WHERE DECLINING ISSUES BEAT OUT ADVANCERS BY A MARGIN OF ALMOST SIX TO FIVE THE COMPOSITE JUST SHY OF ITS RECORD HIGH TONIGHT IT STANDS AT THREE HUNDRED FIFTY ONE POINT TWO FOUR AFTER A GAIN OF ZERO POINT FOUR TWO THE S. AND P. FIVE HUNDRED IS SIX HUNDRED FIFTY FOUR POINT ONE SIX AFTER A GAIN OF ZERO POINT SEVEN ZERO THE DOW TRANSPORTS LOST THREE POINT SIX FIVE WHILE THE UTILITIES DESPITE A WEAK BOND MARKET ROSE ZERO POINT SEVEN SEVEN THE NASDEQ COMPOSITE SETTINGS ITS EIGHTH CONSECUTIVE RECORD IT STANDS AT ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY EIGHT POINT TWO OH TONIGHT GAINING ONE POINT THREE ONE ON VOLUME OF ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY FOUR MILLION SHARES THE AMERICAN EXCHANGE COMPOSITE FIVE HUNDRED NINETY TWO POINT SEVEN FIVE LOSING ZERO POINT EIGHT TWO RETREATING FROM FRIDAY'S RECORD AND VOLUME MORE THAN TWENTY SEVEN MILLION SHARES TONIGHT'S MONEYLINE MOVERS ARE LED BY MID ATLANTIC MEDICAL SERVICES WHICH DROPPED FOUR DOLLAR AND ZERO CENT A SHARE INVESTORS DUMPED SHARES AFTER THE COMPANY WARNED FIRST QUARTER PROFITS WILL BE SHARPLY LOWER AND SOLOMON BROTHERS AND MERRILL LYNCH BOTH DOWNGRADED THE STOCK TODAY ACUSON UP A ONE DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE J. P. MORGAN UPGRADED THE STOCK FOLLOWING THE LAUNCH OF ITS NEW ULTRASOUND IMAGING SYSTEM NOVELLA SYSTEMS DROPPING FOUR DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE EMBRECHT AND QUIST CUTTING NEXT YEAR'S EARNINGS ESTIMATES WARNING OF A POSSIBLE SLUMP FOR SEMI CONDUCTOR EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS GEOWORKS RALLIED FOUR DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE TEAMING UP WITH JAPAN'S N. E. C. TO DEVELOP ADVANCED DIGITAL CELLULAR TELEPHONES GEORGIA PACIFIC UP TWO DOLLAR AND TWENTY FIVE CENT A SHARE PAPER STOCKS CONTINUING THEIR RALLY ON ANTICIPATION OF REBOUND IN PULP PRICES AND IN CORPORATE NEWS TONIGHT BOEING'S FIRST QUARTER PROFITS DECLINING THIRTY FOUR PERCENT LARGELY BECAUSE OF LAST YEAR'S MACHINIST STRIKE BOEING ALSO HIKED ITS DIVIDEND BY TWELVE PERCENT THE FIRST INCREASE IN NEARLY SIX YEARS ANN TAYLOR DROPPED SEVENTY FIVE CENTS A SHARE SHAREHOLDERS SOME OF THEM ARE FILING A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE COMPANY AND CONTROLLING SHARE HOLDER MERRILL LYNCH ACCUSING THE TWO OF MISREPRESENTING THE COMPANY'S BUSINESS INVENTORIES AND EARNINGS ANN TAYLOR SAYS THE SUIT HAS NO MERIT M. C. I. LAUNCHED A VARIETY OF SERVICE PACKAGES UNDER THE LABEL M. C. I. I THE DEAL OFFERS NUMEROUS EXISTING SERVICES SUCH AS CELLULAR PHONES INTERNET ACCESS AND PAGING FOR ONE MONTHLY FEE COMING UP NEXT HERE ON MONEYLINE THE CIGAR BOOM THE SMOKES ARE NO LONGER SYNONYMOUS WILL GRANDPAS AND GANGSTERS AND ACADEMIA CAN WAIT FOR THIS COLLEGE BASKETBALL STAR THE N. B. A. HAS CALLED IN AN AGE WHEN POLITICAL CORRECTNESS HAS BEEN RAISED TO THE LEVEL OF ORTHODOXY BUCKING CONVENTION CAN OFTEN MEAN BIG BUSINESS ONE EXAMPLE IS A HABIT OBJECTIONABLE TO MANY WHICH IS BECOMING FASHIONABLE ONCE AGAIN I'M TALKING OF COURSE ABOUT THE CIGAR CRAZE RAISING TEMPERS IN SOME QUARTERS WHILE RAISING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OTHERS SEAN CALLEBS HAS OUR STORY FROM NEW YORK LAST YEAR SALES OF PREMIUM OR HAND MADE CIGARS IN THE U. S. INCREASED ALMOST THIRTY ONE PERCENT FLYING THE NAME OF ITS TOP SELLING PREMIUM CIGAR BRAND ON ITS AWNING CLUB MACANUDO IS FLAGSHIP STORE OF THE CULLBRO CORPORATION WHICH ALSO MANUFACTURES PARTICUS AND CANARY ADORO BRANDS THE OBJECTIVE HERE IS TO MAKE MONEY AND THE INVESTMENT IS LARGE BUT WE THINK OF THIS AS A PROTOTYPE AND WE'RE VERY HOPEFUL THAT THIS WILL BECOME A WAY FOR US TO EXTEND THE CONCEPT OF CLUB MACANUDOS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND PERHAPS AROUND THE WORLD FEW EXPENSES HAVE BEEN SPARED IN THIS HIGH END RETREAT FOR THE CIGAR AFICIONADO WHERE FOR SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR YOU CAN RENT A PRIVATE HUMIDOR ALONGSIDE SOME FAMOUS NAMES BUT SERVICES DO NOT STOP HERE IF YOU'RE HERE AND YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF WORK TO DO WE HAVE PORTABLE LAPTOPS FOR YOUR DISPOSAL WE HAVE FAX MACHINE LIMOUSINE SERVICE WE ACT AS A CONCIERGE SERVICE WE HAVE MAIL ORDER WE HAVE A WEB SITE FOR INFORMATION AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR CIGAR CLASSES WHICH ARE FILLING UP RAPIDLY WITH MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED DIFFERENT TYPES OF CIGARS ON SALE CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO PICK UP CIGAR HOLDERS SPORTSWEAR OR THIS TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS HUMIDOR MADE BY ARTIST DANIEL MARSHALL FINALLY WHAT WORDS OF CONSOLATION CAN BE OFFERED TO THOSE WHO DEPLORE CIGARS DISTINCTIVE CHARACTERISTICS DON'T COME TO CLUB MACANUDO SEAN CALLEBS C. N. N. FINANCIAL NEWS NEW YORK AND FINALLY BIG BUCK LURE TWO TOP BASKETBALL PLAYERS OUT OF THE CLASSROOM MARCUS CANBY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS TODAY ANNOUNCED HE'LL BYPASS HIS SENIOR YEAR TO ENTER THE N. B. A. DRAFT CANBY WAS LAST YEAR'S COLLEGE PLAYER OF THE YEAR HE'S EXPECTED TO BE AMONG THE TOP THREE PICKS IN THE DRAFT THE NUMBER ONE DRAFT WILL LIKELY EARN MORE THAN NINE MILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS ALSO TODAY PHILADELPHIA HIGH SCHOOL STAR TOBY BRYANT ANNOUNCED HIS PLANS TO SKIP COLLEGE ENTIRELY HE WILL GO DIRECTLY TO THE PROS BRYANT IS EXPECTED TO BE AMONG THE TOP TEN PICKS WHICH WILL MEAN AROUND FOUR MILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS NOT BAD PAY FOR A TEENAGER OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER THAT'S MONEYLINE FOR THIS MONDAY EVENING THANKS FOR BEING WITH US I'M LOU DOBBS GOOD NIGHT FROM NEW YORK